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Featured On demand abortion is murder

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by redleghunter, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Yes

    44 vote(s)
    88.0%
  2. No

    6 vote(s)
    12.0%
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  1. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Got scripture?
     
  2. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I think I've answered about 20 so far.
    Most repeat twice.
     
  3. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    You didn’t respond to the post I linked.
     
  4. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I think I've answered about 20 so far.
    Most repeat twice.

    You have some responding to catch up on.
    Why do each of these passages not explain that Abortion
    is handled by local government and government is God's will for man?

    1 Peter 2,13-17
    Titus 3,1
    1 Timothy 2,1-3

    Psalms 22:28
    Daniel 2:20-21
    Romans 13,7
    1 Timothy 2,1-2

    Deuteronomy 16:18-20
    Revelation 1,5
    Romans 13,4
    Proverbs 21,1

    John 19,11
    Mark 3:24
    Proverbs 8:15


    Deuteronomy 28,1-68
    Daniel 2:21
    John 19,10-11
     
  5. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    We are to follow the laws created by men (government), unless those laws contradict the law of God. God’s law always supersedes the law of men. Even though God allows men to use government for the good of the people in that society, government has the potential (the free will) to go against the laws of God. We are accountable to God to follow His laws, and in following His laws we won’t have any difficulty following the government’s laws unless those laws are morally wrong according to the word of God. You can post all the separate scriptures you want to try and prove your point, but you have to take the whole word of God into consideration. God does not contradict Himself, He is not divided in His moral laws, and He does not change. There are absolute truths and moral laws that God has ordained and He does not try to deceive us by constantly changing His mind.
     
  6. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    Really? lofty opinion. False teachers promote false representations of scripture as the scripture warns. ...your fruit is self-evident deception & does not speak the truth of what the Bible scripture actually says or means. At it's core promotes a different Gospel altogether when a person misrepresents the faith by such a degree, i.e saying GOD's law is changing placed differently in each individual, & sin is not judged by GOD but is in the eye of the beholder etc..
    I'm kicking the dust off my sandals..this forum has serious problems if it allows false teachings to be promoted unchecked.
     
  7. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    If I can "trick you" into reading scripture, my job is done.
     
  8. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Not even one passage for support? Really?
    You have some responding to catch up on.
    Best get busy.
    33 minutes ago#307
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  9. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    I can give you lots of Scriptural support, but I honestly think it would be a waste of time. You ignored my earlier post, which makes me think that perhaps you don’t have an answer for it. I’ll repeat my post and wait for your answer. If I get an answer then I’ll find all the Scriptures to support my point of view.
     
  10. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    Here you go...

    Jesus said: "But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these things defile a man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander." Mark 15:18-19

    Jesus is saying that adultery is morally wrong and that it comes from the heart of a man. He is giving his agreement with the commandment of God, "Thou shalt not commit adultery". In half of the states in the United States adultery is not against the law. According to your viewpoint, God's moral law for adultery must have changed in those states as there is no law against it, therefore it is permissible. One person's heart may tell them adultery isn't a sin, another person's heart may tell them it is a sin. Jesus doesn't seem to agree that this is true. Was Jesus lying when he said adultery was a sin that defiles a man? Or has He changed His mind on this for people who live in the certain states?
     
  11. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    If you are going to adjust interpretation of scripture to match your core belief, I guess you will always be right and always have scriptural support..nn
     
  12. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    Are there any scientific facts that you feel arent true or biblical......if so, why use "scientific facts" in hoot argument now?

    Human beings with souls in the bible were considered dead as well.

    If you are going to only look in science and the bible for support of what you already believe, and not to find truth....there really is no reasoning to be do here. Go with what you "know".
     
  13. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    How am I adjusting the interpretation of Scripture to match a core belief? I think Scripture clearly shows that a child in the womb is alive. If a human being is alive then they have a spirit. The two things go together.
     
  14. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    Apparently you don't know this but, born again believers arn't tricked & they study scriptures daily because the Holy Spirit indwells them.
     
  15. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    if we're going to say abortion is murder then we need to first establish what murder is, so what is murder?
     
  16. Zoii

    Zoii Well-Known Member

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    I see - and what would be your Christian view of her if she chooses to live?
     
  17. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    It is apparent premeditation is the driving concept:

    Discernment in Homicide Cases. The death penalty was posed for one who killed with premeditation, but not for accidental manslaughter ( Exod 21:12-13 ; Lev 24:17 ; Deut 27:24 ). In fact, premeditated murder did not require a trial ( Exod 21:14 ; Num 35:19 ; Deut 19:11-13 ). Thus, the Old Testament saw a fundamental difference between the two types of homicide ( Deut 19:1-13 ; Joshua 20:1-7 ), providing two levels of meaning for rasah [j;x'r]. One who killed out of enmity was not allowed sanctuary in the city of refuge. The victim's clan could demand that the killer be delivered up to the blood avenger ( 2 Sam 14:7-11 ), who presented the evidence against the individual. Guilt was determined either by the intention of the killer or by the type of object used in the apparent manslaughter ( Num 35:16-21 ; some iron, stone, or wooden objects were considered likely to cause death ). However, there had to be at least two witnesses to convict a murderer ( Num 35:30 ; Deut 17:6 ; 19:15 ; 1 Sam 21:4 ). The blood avenger, who was responsible for the execution, was not allowed to pity the murderer or else the land would be defiled ( Num 35:34 ; David put himself in the hands of God because of this — 2 Sam 12:13 ). No ransom was allowed since this would have signified consent with the crime, undermining the value of human life and breaking the covenant with God. There was also no substitutionary punishment ( Deut 24:16 ; although Saul's sons were demanded as ransom after his own death because he had murdered the Gibeonites 2 Sam 21:1-9 ).

    The Meaning of Rasah. Rasah probably had a specialized meaning, possibly in connection with the killing (whether premeditated or accidental) of anyone in the covenant community, especially that which brought illegal violence. The sixth commandment therefore protected the individual Israelite within the community from any danger. Only God had the right to terminate life; murder was an abrogation of his power that ignored humanity's created nature and value in the sight of God. God had to be propitiated since the covenant relationship had been broken ( Num 35:33 ). Murder deprived God of his property (the blood of the victim Leviticus 17:11 Leviticus 17:14 ), which apparently passed to the control of the murderer ( 2 Sam 4:11 ). Thus, the murderer's life was ransomed. Underlying this was the dictum in Genesis 9:6 concerning the sanctity of life. The murderer had to receive a penalty consistent with this law (lex talionis) to purge the evil from their midst ( Gen 4:10-11 ; Deut 21:8 ) and to deter others ( Deut 13:11 ; 17:13 ; 19:20 ; 21:21 ). Rasah did not cover the subject of killing in war or capital punishment, which were done only at the command of God; thus, they were not in the same category as murder.

    Other Terms for Murder. The most common Hebrew word for killing (harag [g;r'h]) could also be used for murder. Pharaoh viewed Moses' killing of an Egyptian as a crime ( Exod 2:14-15 ). Joab's spilling of the blood of Abner was condemned ( 2 Sam 3:30 ; 1 Kings 2:5 ). David was responsible for the death of Uriah, although he did not physically kill him ( 2 Sam 12:9 ). Judicial murder was also condemned ( Exod 23:7 ; Psalm 10:8 ; 94:6 ). Harag [g;r'h] was the term used for Cain's crime against Abel ( Gen 4:8 ), and for the murderers of Ishbosheth ( 2 Sam 4:11-12 ). Striking a parent (possibly with the intent to murder Exod 21:15 ), inducing death by miscarriage ( Exod 21:22-23 ), and sacrificing children to a foreign god ( Lev 20:2-3 ) were apparently considered murder and were capital crimes. If a man beat a slave to death, he was probably punished (or better avenged) by being put to death by the covenant community ( Exod 21:20 ). There was no legislation outlawing suicide, as it must have been very rare. Those who committed suicide in Scripture had been placed in a situation of certain death ( Judges 9:54 ; 16:30 ; 1 Sam 31:4 ; 2 Sam 17:23 ; 1 Kings 16:18 ).

    Murder Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
     
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  18. ProjectExodus

    ProjectExodus New Member

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    I don't think my view would change. I would struggle more with my sin not to hate her, if she was a stranger, but as a Christian I should only be mad with her sin. I think only God can make a call in that case, because it really comes down to life for life. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be just to let things happen naturally without tampering. Again, up to God not me.
     
  19. Zoii

    Zoii Well-Known Member

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    No...you see its got nothign to do with you - Your response is simply arrogant. Its all very well for you to cast judgment. You will never be pregnant and your life will never be in this circumstance.

    All I hear is casting of stones towards women who have to make these choices. If more men were not so spineless and stood up and took some ownership of the pregnancy they created, instead of washing their hands after they had sex, I dare say there'd be significantly fewer abortions.

    There is nothing wrong with choosing to save your own life - There is everything wrong with your casting stones to a woman who has saved her own life
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  20. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    But personal attacks on fellow Christians off the topic are fine? What a strange rule book you've written for yourself.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
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