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Featured On demand abortion is murder

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by redleghunter, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Yes

    44 vote(s)
    88.0%
  2. No

    6 vote(s)
    12.0%
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  1. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    You just have to stick to the topic and not slam the individual.
    It's a very hard lesson to learn.
    I try to avoid deceit by including the context with most scripture.
    There have been maybe two responses that tried to show my context
    was wrong. But about 15 people have claimed it.
     
  2. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    "collect"?? "unwanted pregnancy"?? no mention of human baby.
     
  3. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    I am sticking to the topic.
    I won't stand by silently and have some individual defame the scripture, blaspheme Jesus and promote False teachings and Lies for the sake of murdering innocent Babies in the womb.
     
  4. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    No one is calling (imagined) for your silence. And this topic on abortion is not even the reason this discovery of God's use of government was developed. It was an entirely different topic. So you have all the motivations imagined as well.
     
  5. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Not even in the preceding sentence?
    18 minutes ago#263
     
  6. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    You selectively ignore what has been shown to you by myself and others in scripture but continue to aggressively promote misrepresentations of scripture and blatant falsehoods.
     
  7. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    I agree with the OP that abortion is murder in the eyes of God. I wanted to make sure I was staying on topic. I want to address what you have said about God's morality being the local law (whatever the local law happens to be it is a reflection of God's morality). If the local law allows abortion (ending the life of another human being) and does not consider it murder, then you must believe that God has changed his mind about murder, and that what He considers to be moral or immoral also changes over time. Is this correct?
     
  8. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Sorry. I am totally unqualified to judge your teachings, intentions, and faith. I wish I could help you out, but I can't see your heart, your beliefs, or your intentions.
     
  9. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    The question is intended as a trap but...
    Certainly.
     
  10. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We judge others. What Jesus taught was not to do so hypocritically. If we don't judge at all then we become unable to know right from wrong, because we aren't using discernment.

    When Jesus was talking in Matthew 7:1-5 he was teaching us that we can't judge hypocritically. This discourse begins with judge not lest ye be judged for with whatever measure ye mete it will be measured unto you. . but interestingly it ends with these words:

    "and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

    the whole point is being able to discern the issue correctly which can't be done properly when we are steeped in sin ourselves.

    But helping our brother remove the speck in his eye is something positive.

    We see in Hebrews:

    "And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works"

    If we don't know or can't see what sin and evil is, how can we spur one another on to good works?

    You cant know what love is unless you have seen hate, you cannot recognise what good is unless you have seen evil.

    We understand through contrast. If murder is a simple choice that a person can make, then there is no good because there is nothing under the sun which is evil.

    2 Timothy 2:15

    "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth."

    We are responsible for understanding the Word of God correctly, as well as responsible for spreading it truthfully and not misrepresenting that Word ...

    We have to stand before God on judgment day. Standing around saying the Bible teaches Hitler to be righteous before God, or the woman who murders her child is righteous in that act (both lies), is one of those things that will require an accounting for.

    God forgives, but scripture reminds us:

    What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  11. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    Ya that expression about not seeing the heart is Not from the Bible.
    This is what the scriptures teach about hearts and fruit that comes from it...Jesus said we see fruit. "Each tree produces fruit"....."From out of the overflow of heart the mouth speaks." .....In every post we see what kind of fruit that comes from the heart. Believers are to use righteous judgment & use spiritual discernment.

    Proverbs 4: 23 " 23 Guard your heart with all diligence, for from it flows springs of life. 24 Put away deception from your mouth; keep your lips from perverse speech.…"

    Luke 6: 44, 45 :
    "44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. Indeed, people do not gather figs from thorn bushes, or grapes from brambles. 45 The good man brings good things out of the good treasure of his heart, and the evil man brings forth evil out of the treasure of his heart. , For Out Of the heart-- the mouth speaks. "

    Matt 7:16 " They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
    16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles?
     
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  12. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    It’s not a trap, it’s a question to try and understand your point view. So “certainly” must mean that you believe God changes his mind about what is moral or immoral. Following that line of thought, if two government systems have opposing moral laws, does that mean God has different moral requirements for different societies? And if the law of God is different for different people (different laws on their hearts), then that applies for people as well?
     
  13. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Again, with no law how does God judge?

    I would suggest Romans chapters 1 through 5 before making this comment.

    Here’s a primer:

    Romans 3: NASB
    19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
     
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  14. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    I believe YHWH made it quite clear in His promise of the new Covenant where He said He would put His Law in our hearts.

    Ezekiel 36: NASB

    25“Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. 28“You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God.
     
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  15. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Yes.

    We ALL know that our views of sin change from day to day. One day we accuse of murder, later manslaughter, later perhaps a different charge.

    One day we see a thief stole our car. Next day, it was a racially motivated hate crime. Later just a stupid kid. Later a kid just like ours who made a bad judgment. The sin changes moment to moment. Then we come home from church on Sunday and forgive the poor kid.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  16. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    This is a denial of the immutability of God.
     
  17. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    Viewpoints are different from what God has written on man's heart. If sin changes from moment to moment then there is no ultimate truth. If sin changes from moment to moment then how are we to know what really is or isn't a sin? How do we know if it's God telling us it's a sin or if it's Satan telling us that it isn't a sin? There is no way to test our beliefs to make sure they are from God or not. If God changes His mind that we cannot trust Him or any of His promises.
     
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  18. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Thank you for questioning what I've not been clear about:

    1 Samuel 16
    7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

    Luke 16
    15 So He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts.

    1 John 3
    20 For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

    Proverbs 3
    5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.

    1 Corinthians 4
    5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

    1 Kings 8
    39 Then hear in heaven your dwelling place and forgive and act and render to each whose heart you know, according to all his ways (for you, you only, know the hearts of all the children of mankind),
     
  19. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    Jesus said: "But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these things defile a man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander." Mark 15:18-19

    Jesus is saying that adultery is morally wrong and that it comes from the heart of a man. He is giving his agreement with the commandment of God, "Thou shalt not commit adultery". In half of the states in the United States adultery is not against the law. According to your viewpoint, God's moral law for adultery must have changed in those states as there is no law against it, therefore it is permissible. One person's heart may tell them adultery isn't a sin, another person's heart may tell them it is a sin. Jesus doesn't seem to agree that this is true. Was Jesus lying when he said adultery was a sin that defiles a man? Or has He changed His mind on this for people who live in the certain states?
     
  20. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    If every human was identical, this might solve the problem you have with God's law written on different hearts.

    1 Corinthians 4
    5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

    Ezekiel 11
    19 And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,

    [​IMG]
     
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