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Omniscience

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by WordSword, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. WordSword

    WordSword Well-Known Member

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    To me, the “elect of God” (Mat 24:24: Rom 8:33; Col 3:12; Tit 1:1) are those whom God knows are going to “choose life” (Deu 30:19) and receive the Lord Jesus; and this before the “foundation of the world” (Eph 1:4), even from the eternal past. He chose us before we chose Him, because He foreknew of our receiving Christ into our lives (Jhn 1:12).

    Therefore, those whom He foreknew would choose Him, He “predestinated unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will” (Eph 1:5, 11). These are those whom He “called,” “justified,” and “glorified” (Rom 8:30).

    My perspective is that mankind was called to salvation when God sent His Son, but He knew only “few” would choose to believe in Him” (Mat 7:13, 14), and that it would be worth it (Luk 15:7). Remember, God is not a “respecter of persons” (Acts 10:34; Mat 22:16; Luk 20:21; Rom 2:11; Gal 2:6; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; 1Pe 1:17), thus the answer that God chooses whom He will and will not save is absent of Scriptural support!
     
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  2. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    "Only few are finding the way" was about His current era and mainly about Jews. And really, only a tiny portion of Jews have been Christians.

    From the worldwide perspective, there have been so many saved people that John in his vision thought nobody could count them.
     
  3. WordSword

    WordSword Well-Known Member

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    Hi and thanks for the reply! Yes, during the Lord's earthly time His teachings were to Jews "first" (Rom 1:16; 2:9, 10), but were always with implications that applied to all in this life.

    If the saved, who will "scarcely be saved" (few in number - 1Pe 4:18) are innumerable by man, the lost are even more innumerable. Considering the way of most in this life, this phenomena is becoming more obvious all the time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  4. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    I see this as going to God's foreknowlege, as distinct from his omniscience. . .and his foreknowlege as of his own work,
    rather than his foreknowedge as of man's work.

    I gather this from Acts 15:18 - "Known to the Lord for ages is his work," as well as
    Isaiah 43:8:
    "I foretold (predestined) the former things long ago,
    my mouth announced
    (decreed) them, and I made them known;
    then suddenly I acted
    (his work), and they came to pass (accomplished them)."

    Also Acts 2:23, 4:28; Isaiah 37:26.

    So my view is that man's choice to believe is the result of God's own predestination to work belief in those he has predestined to do so.
    I think this is supported in

    John 6:65 - "No one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

    John 6:37 - "All that the Father gives me will come to me."

    John 6:39 - "I shall lose none of all that he has given me."
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
  5. WordSword

    WordSword Well-Known Member

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    To me, omniscience is not only knowing all things, but having known them from eternity past ("from everlasting").

    Blessings!
     
  6. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Acts 2:23 - "This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose (predestination) and foreknowledge (decision)."

    Acts 4:28 - "They did what your power and will had decided before hand (predestination) should happen (foreknowledge)."

    And it doesn't apply just to Jesus' life.

    Isaiah 37:26 - "Have you not heard?
    Long ago I ordained
    (predestined) it.
    In days of old I planned
    (decreed) it; and now I have brought it to pass (accomplished it),
    that you have turned fortified cities into piles of stone.


    Yes, omniscience is knowing all things. But omniscience in Scripture does not imply action, as does foreknowledge.
    The issue here is the nature of God's foreknowledge, that's it's not just knowing, but it is doing.
    God knows what is going to happen in the future, not because he looks down the corridors of time
    and sees in advance what man is going to do, but
    God knows what is going to happen because he has decreed that it shall happen, he shall bring it to pass.

    "For those whom God foreknew, he also predestined to be confromed to the likeness of his Son,
    that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
    (Romans 8:29)

    Predestination is not based on man--man's work, man's merit (choice) etc., it is based on God's sovereign choice alone.
    See Romans 9:10-23.
    This is everywhere testified to in the NT, particularly in Romans and Ephesians.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
  7. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    I will focus on your last sentence: that God chooses whom He will and will not save is absent of Scriptural support!

    Actually, Scripture directly states who God will save.

    1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
     
  8. WordSword

    WordSword Well-Known Member

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    I don't see it that God chooses who gets saved, but that He foreknows who will get saved.
     
  9. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    The point of 1 Cor 1:21 is that God chooses to save "those who believe".
     
  10. WordSword

    WordSword Well-Known Member

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    Not sure of your meaning here, and not opposing your opinion, but I see foreknowledge and omniscience mostly the same thing, as God by the latter assumes the prior.

    To me, predestination is God knowing man's choice before creation. Those whom He knows will believe are therefore predestined (which must be foreknown from eternity past, to be a predestination) for eternal life instead of eternal death.

    Of course what one understands about this issue has no effect to receiving salvation, but only how salvation is lived.

    Appreciate your input and God bless!
     
  11. WordSword

    WordSword Well-Known Member

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    That's close to what we're discussing, but I'm referring to the issue that God chooses who will believe, which is a different issue, of which I do not believe, because each must choose for themselves (we might be discussing different issues).

    Thanks for your comments and God bless!
     
  12. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

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    ImCo:
    How is it possible that those who know the love of GOD, that GOD IS LOVE, can believe HE knew for all eternity past who would be damned YET CREATED THEM ANYWAY?

    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. All HE had to do to ensure that no one perish was to NOT create those whom He knew would perish!!!

    Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them: 'As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live. GOD does all for HIS pleasure, Ps 135:6, and Psalm 115:3 Our God is in heaven; He does as He pleases. so why does HE do what HE does not take pleasure in when all HE had to do to achieve what pleases HIM is to NOT create those whom HE knew for an eternity would be damned???

    There is something wrong with the (pagan Greek) definition of omniscience that concludes HE know all which can be known from eternity past to eternity future ...it is wrong and blasphemous to HIS good name as lovingly righteous so it must be rethunk.
     
  13. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    FreeGrace2 said:
    The point of 1 Cor 1:21 is that God chooses to save "those who believe".
    No, that is the issue. Who does God choose to save? Believers is who.

    Nope, same issue. And I agree with you. Salvation is offered to everyone (Titus 2:11) and is given to those who believe.

    You're welcome!
     
  14. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    To me, knowing how many bugs are in Texas (omniscience) is not the same as foreknowing the crucifixion of Jesus.
    My understanding of predestination is taken from Romans 9:10-21.
     
  15. WordSword

    WordSword Well-Known Member

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    Appreciate your comments, but nothing can be effectively explained apart from understanding God's omniscience. Not saying you don't, just stating what I think would be an impasse in attempting to express what we believe.
     
  16. WordSword

    WordSword Well-Known Member

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    There may be a misunderstanding. I will restate my mention that God chooses who will believe, to, God is the One who chooses who will believe, which I do not support.
     
  17. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Wherever there is the omniscience of God the Creator, that problem cannot be avoided.
     
  18. WordSword

    WordSword Well-Known Member

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    When God brings one into this life, He knows if He is "making him for destruction" or "fitting to destruction" (Rom 9:22) because He knows what one is going to choose. It is "to shew His wrath, and to make His power known," as this passage states.
     
  19. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Neither do I. The belief that God chooses who will believe is the bedrock theology of the Calvinist doctrine of election, when election isn't even about salvation.
     
  20. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    TedT said:
    ImCo:
    How is it possible that those who know the love of GOD, that GOD IS LOVE, can believe HE knew for all eternity past who would be damned YET CREATED THEM ANYWAY?
    It's not a problem. It's a matter of perspective. For whom did God create the human race? That solves the problem.
     
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