Omniscience, YHWH and Jesus Christ, one new God and/or God/Man...? Warning this is not milk...

[Neogaia777]

Why or what reason would YHWH have to get upset, ect, if he were 100% truly omniscient...?

I wonder if, for example the prophecies about Christ in the OT, if YHWH knew (or was "told" by "someone") that if he could not get control of the people, then a man would come later on, who would either be him, or complete him, or take his place, or overpower and conquer him, ect...

I don't think he (YHWH) wanted that to happen, but knew it was a "possibility" if he could not get control of the people... for why would he get upset, emotional, ect, when he could not get control of them...? Especially if he "already knew", just doesn't make sense...?

If he were truly omniscient, he would have known that he couldn't or would not be able to, and "none of it" would have mattered or bothered him at all... Like I said earlier if He were always 100% completely omniscient from the beginning, it would, or should not be the way it is/was with him (and us) at all in the OT...

But of course, it clearly "did", (bother him make him upset, ect) and that is not how a truly 100% fully omniscient being/God from the beginning would have been and/or acted, and/or behaved with us...?

He has to be a, or the Son of God, "of the true Father", but not the Father himself... "A father" maybe, but not "the" Father God...

I know what Jesus was hearing/sensing/perceiving... He heard three voices primarily, one from above or in the realms above him, one inside of him, and one always on ground level and never above with him, nor inside of him... And it was the only one that was clearly audible at times, and only sometimes, was the one on ground level with him, outside of him...

I think he made a judgment call, I think he thought the voice or voices he heard or sensed or perceived from above, and inside, but mainly that the one above, was "greater" or stronger than the one on ground level with him, and that one, the one above, was the one he prayed to and talked with, but and/or usually getting his answers from the voice on the inside of him, that he thought or he knew was (sent) from the voice or presence above him...

In this situation, I think he concluded that the voice or presence above him was "his or the Father in heaven", and that the voice "inside of him" came from that one, and they had a kind of secret communication going on... that he prayed to the voice above him, but most of the time got his answers or words from the voice inside of him that I think he concluded was the Holy Spirit...

I just wonder if he was "right" or not, about the voice on his level with him that was sometimes audible, saying that it was Satan, but, was he right about that...? Cause what if it was YHWH...?

I am in this dilemma right now, for I also hear three voice or sense and communicate with three presences, just like this... But, who is who, and what is what, that is the question...? What if Jesus was wrong and judging YHWH...? I hope he wasn't wrong...

He talked about Judging the ""god/God of this world", how he/it would fall, and also how he was "greater" than him/it, and that the other two voices that he heard of presences he sensed were greater than him/it, the god/God of this world, but who was the God of this world in Jesus day...?

I cannot make any judgement calls about any of them yet, and I hope you can understand that, the voice/presence on ground level with us is/was not very "nice" at all, but, is that any reason to judge him/it...? Or rebuke it and/or especially accuse it of anything or anything like that...

If Jesus was wrong, and it was YHWH, then YHWH would have ascended and Jesus might have took his place and stayed here on ground level, but if he (Jesus) was right, then he would have ascended and that other voice/presence, would have been left here or behind on ground level with us, and would not have ascended like he (Jesus) did, into the realms above with his, or the (true or universal) Father God...

Then there is also the possibility that they ascended "together", but if that was the case, there should not still be a voice or presence on ground level with us, but only above or from above, and also from within, and that should be it... but there is a voice/presence on ground level with us that cannot seem to go or be in the realms above with us...

I'm not passing any kind of judgments yet, cause I don't know enough yet... And, I don't want to make any mistakes when, or if I ever do...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Why or what reason would YHWH have to get upset, ect, if he were 100% truly omniscient...?

I wonder if, for example the prophecies about Christ in the OT, if YHWH knew (or was "told" by "someone") that if he could not get control of the people, then a man would come later on, who would either be him, or complete him, or take his place, or overpower and conquer him, ect...

I don't think he (YHWH) wanted that to happen, but knew it was a "possibility" if he could not get control of the people... for why would he get upset, emotional, ect, when he could not get control of them...? Especially if he "already knew", just doesn't make sense...?

If he were truly omniscient, he would have known that he couldn't or would not be able to, and "none of it" would have mattered or bothered him at all... Like I said earlier if He were always 100% completely omniscient from the beginning, it would, or should not be the way it is/was with him (and us) at all in the OT...

But of course, it clearly "did", (bother him make him upset, ect) and that is not how a truly 100% fully omniscient being/God from the beginning would have been and/or acted, and/or behaved with us...?

He has to be a, or the Son of God, "of the true Father", but not the Father himself... "A father" maybe, but not "the" Father God...

I know what Jesus was hearing/sensing/perceiving... He heard three voices primarily, one from above or in the realms above him, one inside of him, and one always on ground level and never above with him, nor inside of him... And it was the only one that was clearly audible at times, and only sometimes, was the one on ground level with him, outside of him...

I think he made a judgment call, I think he thought the voice or voices he heard or sensed or perceived from above, and inside, but mainly that the one above, was "greater" or stronger than the one on ground level with him, and that one, the one above, was the one he prayed to and talked with, but and/or usually getting his answers from the voice on the inside of him, that he thought or he knew was (sent) from the voice or presence above him...

In this situation, I think he concluded that the voice or presence above him was "his or the Father in heaven", and that the voice "inside of him" came from that one, and they had a kind of secret communication going on... that he prayed to the voice above him, but most of the time got his answers or words from the voice inside of him that I think he concluded was the Holy Spirit...

I just wonder if he was "right" or not, about the voice on his level with him that was sometimes audible, saying that it was Satan, but, was he right about that...? Cause what if it was YHWH...?

I am in this dilemma right now, for I also hear three voice or sense and communicate with three presences, just like this... But, who is who, and what is what, that is the question...? What if Jesus was wrong and judging YHWH...? I hope he wasn't wrong...

He talked about Judging the ""god/God of this world", how he/it would fall, and also how he was "greater" than him/it, and that the other two voices that he heard of presences he sensed were greater than him/it, the god/God of this world, but who was the God of this world in Jesus day...?

I cannot make any judgement calls about any of them yet, and I hope you can understand that, the voice/presence on ground level with us is/was not very "nice" at all, but, is that any reason to judge him/it...? Or rebuke it and/or especially accuse it of anything or anything like that...

If Jesus was wrong, and it was YHWH, then YHWH would have ascended and Jesus might have took his place and stayed here on ground level, but if he (Jesus) was right, then he would have ascended and that other voice/presence, would have been left here or behind on ground level with us, and would not have ascended like he (Jesus) did, into the realms above with his, or the (true or universal) Father God...

Then there is also the possibility that they ascended "together", but if that was the case, there should not still be a voice or presence on ground level with us, but only above or from above, and also from within, and that should be it... but there is a voice/presence on ground level with us that cannot seem to go or be in the realms above with us...

I'm not passing any kind of judgments yet, cause I don't know enough yet... And, I don't want to make any mistakes when, or if I ever do...

God Bless!

I also can not afford to think of myself any more highly than I ought not to, especially in this situation for that would detrimental (to me)... And I know that very, very well...

The voice or presence on the outside on ground level is not "always there" but comes and goes, and for or with me is not there, most of the time, while the other two are always there, (just thought I'd add that)...

The consequences if he (Jesus) got this "wrong", in any way, or if "I" get this wrong in any way, scare the hell out me...

Jesus claims that his abilit(ies) with the supernatural were proof that he was right, but I just don't know yet...

The voice from above, could be Jesus, or it could be the Father, and while I'm pretty sure about the voice inside you/me/us, I still cannot be absolutely sure yet, The Holy Spirit could be YHWH or even maybe, and this is dangerous ground, well, all of "this" is, anyway, it could be YHWH or Satan, or the Holy Spirit after what Jesus did, "reborn" or transformed, or it could even be Jesus, but only if he was wrong in some way, I would think...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Somewhere it says, or YHWH asks the question (can't find it right now) In Ezekiel, or possibly this verse or linked to this verse in (Numbers 23:19), He "basically" asks the question (YHWH does) "Am I "the Son of Man" (not "a" but "the") (Son of Man) that I should repent...?"

And I would say, "IDK, sir...? Are you or should you...? And also, sir, why are you so "upset" about this anyway...? Then I would add, "Sorry sir, but you did ask the question...?"

I would recommend doing a Bible word search on "The Son of Man" "the" not just "a" in the Bible, or Bible key word search program, and just see what comes up about him (Jesus) from YHWH...

Here is/are a few: (Job 25:6) (Psalms 146:3) (Isaiah 51:12)

Now there are some better and much good verses about "The Son of Man" also, but you can find those on your own, but these others that I just mentioned need to be considered...


Also, recall what Satan was saying to Jesus, when he was tempted, (whom Jesus called "The god/God of this world") anyway, it was always "If you are "a" Son of God", (not "the" mind you), but if you are or be "a Son of God" (also maybe?) (and also, beyond being 'The Son of Man") then this or that, ect, ect...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

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[Neogaia777]

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[Neogaia777]

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[Neogaia777]

Re-posting...

 

[BCsenior]

You (the OP) have not proved this, just made a statement. So either provide your evidence or retract.

The God of the Bible is omniscient (all knowing)!
He has always seen the end from the beginning of
human history (and I'm not talking about the
history of the universe, or universes, etc.).
This is obvious from reading Scripture.

 

[Tolworth John]

The God of the Bible is omniscient (all knowing)!
He has always seen the end from the beginning of
human history (and I'm not talking about the
history of the universe, or universes, etc.).
This is obvious from reading Scripture.

Are you answering on behalf of the OP or in support of him.
It is unclear from your post how you intend to react to his post.
Please clarify.

 

[BCsenior]

Are you answering on behalf of the OP or in support of him.
It is unclear from your post how you intend to react to his post.
Please clarify.

I iz most definitely not in support of what He has written.
I wuz hoping that wuz clear from my post above!
But, alas, no cigar ... again.
Would you like this notarized, or does it suffice as is?

 

[Neogaia777]

"Blasphemy, heretic, heresy, let's burn him at the stake"...

I didn't know logic and reason, or having a completely objective and neutral point of view or perspective on things was "heresy" or "Blasphemy", but "whatever"...

Put your completely objective thinking caps on people...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

One possibility in this, (to YHWH not being 100% truly and always fully omniscient), is that Christ was literally, or use to be literally, Him (YHWH)... and they are not ever, nor were ever, two separate beings an/or person's at all...

But His not being 100% truly and fully omniscient (back then), (and as a man, or the man, Christ), (but not afterward), made His behavior back then, (or in the, or His past), not as 100% God-like as it should have been for a (or an) always 100% truly and fully omniscient being form the very beginning... (but not now)...

Anyway, they could be two separate person's or they might not be...

But then, that would mean that God, (or the Son of God) (more appropriately for this) changed or had changed, or had been changing, and/or grew, or had to grow, (in understanding, ect)...

What do you think...?

Any real way for us to know...?

Separate persons or beings...? Or not...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

One possibility in this, (to YHWH not being 100% truly and always fully omniscient), is that Christ was literally, or use to be literally, Him (YHWH)... and they are not ever, nor were ever, two separate beings an/or person's at all...

But His not being 100% truly and fully omniscient (back then), (and as a man, or the man, Christ), (but not afterward), made His behavior back then, (or in the, or His past), not as 100% God-like as it should have been for a (or an) always 100% truly and fully omniscient being form the very beginning... (but not now)...

Anyway, they could be two separate person's or they might not be...

But then, that would mean that God, (or the Son of God) (more appropriately for this) changed or had changed, or had been changing, and/or grew, or had to grow, (in understanding, ect)...

What do you think...?

Any real way for us to know...?

Separate persons or beings...? Or not...?

God Bless!

YHWH was not who Jesus prayed to, nor was He (YHWH), who He (Jesus), was referring to when He (Jesus) would say, or said, "His" (and/or our) "Father in Heaven" either...

If they were separate person's or beings, YHWH could have been, or became, after and because of Christ, and all He (Christ) did; the "Holy Spirit (of truth) who proceeds forth (or always did proceed forth from) from the Father" (in heaven) (or The True Father God) (That Jesus prayed to) "After all and what Jesus did and all and what He (Jesus) did... and it could be all only the Holy Spirit here with us right now (possibly), whereas Jesus could be in Heaven seated at the right hand of the "true Father God" waiting on or upon Him (the True Father God) to act or say, or do, or come back, or whatever...

YHWH was "The Son of God" really, at the time, (in the OT most especially)... But, is He (YHWH) a "separate person or being" from Christ...? or is He (YHWH) literally Him (Christ) but in the, or His or their "past"...? Cause neither one of them was 100% purely and 100% totally omniscient while they were here at those times in the past before Christ when He or they (either one of them) were here...

Either way, Jesus completed YHWH either way, continued Him (YHWH) IOW's...

And that makes Him (Jesus) God, or the Son of God, doesn't it...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I heard a message that basically said, "We all have to answer the question of just who (and what) is that "baby in the manger", and in that find our answer to who and what is God basically...?

So, as I ask myself this question and ponder it, and I have all kinds of thoughts... some that might be considered blasphemy, or heresy, or blasphemous in nature (as if I haven't shown enough of that here in this thread already... anyway)...

But, does a baby sin when it cries...? No, it does not, but being unable to communicate it's needs yet, does it's parents get frustrated sometimes...? Maybe, perhaps, if only just a little bit if they are human, but the baby is not sinning nor is sinful because it cries what it cannot communicate that it needs yet, leaving the parents to try and figure it out (or because it acts like a baby or child) ... But it grows (up) and matures and develops, and if that "baby in the manger" is supposed to tell us about God, or YHWH or the Lord before he became man, or whatever, anyway, if that baby in the manger is supposed to tell us something or anything about God, then "what" then...?

What is it or does it (the baby in the manger or the or a baby in general) supposed to tell us about God...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

.

 

[Neogaia777]

Why was YHWH so angry, so upset, and seems/seemed to be very frustrated about and over "us"...? About our sins maybe, or our sins or sinning or our inability to change and/or do or be better, ect...? But why would he be upset over or about that...? I mean, if He is the one who set up all the "dominoes" and "domino effect, from the very beginning, and initiated it all, or gave it all life; or that entire "chain", and knows everything about that entire chain and "each link" fully, from beginning to end...? Why would that one be or get upset (at all)...? Or so very angry or so very extremely frustrated with us, many, many times, and many times over with us, over and about our abilities/inabilities, ect, which He should know all of and about fully and very well...? Unless that one (YHWH) "didn't", basically...?

Which is what I see as the only explanation, that there were some things that He (YHWH) just did not know, or know fully...

IOW's I do not believe that YHWH, in the OT, was, in and of Himself, fully or 100% totally omniscient, IOW's...

But, I believe that there is a God, in and of Himself, that "is" and "always was" however (the Father), and He is not exactly YHWH, or is not, (or was not always or whatever) exactly like YHWH... And they are not, or were not "exactly alike" as we see either Him (YHWH) or "them in YHWH"... not as we see YHWH in the OT anyway...

Or IOW's, or in short, YHWH is not the Father God...

He could be "a" or "the" Son of God, or of that God, but not literally or exclusively the Father God, by Himself or alone... If He is a or the Son of God, He could be Jesus before He was or became Jesus, or, He, (YHWH) could be the Holy Spirit, or maybe the Holy Spirit before or before He became the Holy Spirit maybe... Or, the last and least likely possibility IMO (explain in a bit) is that YHWH could be Satan... However I don't think this possibility is very likely (which I will explain in a bit)... (Book of Job)...

If He (YHWH) is not the Father, and He's not Satan, then He has to be either Jesus before He became Jesus and had the knowledge of Jesus, or the Holy Spirit, possibly before He became the Holy Spirit, unless He always is and was the Holy Spirit, or He could be Jesus... One of these two are the only and most likely possibilities that I can see...

YHWH is not a mere angel, but one of the three of the Godhead and He has or had the command of angels to do, and that had to do, all of His bidding, and whenever or whatever He wished...

Job shows that YHWH is not, or cannot be Satan, but that Satan was only a mere angel, much more different and much more limited than YHWH, although I believe, made and created and "conceived of" by the Father to "oppose" Him and cause him (and us) all kinds of hell and problems and trouble a lot or all the time...

So, YHWH is not Satan, YHWH is one of the Godhead, and Satan is just "not"...

Some problems though is: Jesus had a voice and presence above him, and one inside of him, and then one outside of him on his level with him and had some smaller or greater measure of power and/or influence on everything around him (Jesus) and everyone around him, and this last one was Satan to him, but, what if it was YHWH...?

Jesus said "The God of this world is about to judged, cast or thrown down, ect, unless he binds the strong man, ect, (Satan or YHWH) and if it was YHWH and YHWH was the Holy Spirit...? Well, I will leave you to try and figure it out from there, K...?

But Jesus called "it" Satan, and I wonder If YHWH had lost power to Satan by or at that time, or what...?

Jesus power (supernatural power) was directly from God the Father, and the true Father, though (or the one (presence/voice) above), and Jesus claimed that "that" should be proof of who and what he is, or was, and that he was "right", about all that he was right about, ect...

Some say that the men in the OT made Him up (God, or God in the form of YHWH) or made "The God" the God that was in and was of their own minds or opinions, or thoughts/ideas, ect...

But, this God "spoke" and was not just a voice in their heads or was someone or something they "made up", and He (this God/YHWH) spoke and speaks with literal audible words, in a literal, audible voice (which I also hear and have heard) so I tend to reject that it, He, or YHWH was just some kind of "made up" God of those peoples minds, or concepts or ideas of God in and of their own heads and limitations, ect... I reject that, due to what I know and also have experienced and do experience personally myself...

I believe YHWH is what He was, or is exactly as those people describe and "paint" Him out to be (like), ect... And i don't think they made any of it, Him, or "this" up at all...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Nobody really knows what Jesus did, especially with or to YHWH, but I do...

He (Jesus) "cut Him deeper than anyone else can or ever could", that was supposedly, or was supposed to, put and end to His wrath once and for all... But, did it...? That is the question...

YHWH is a Son of God the Father, and is not the true Father God, both of them are "Sons" (YHWH and Christ), put here to be our God/Gods...

YHWH knew, because He was told, all that would happen if He failed, or both He and us failed, so, He could tell us about that, but, He was trying to "change it" to succeed and prove His God-hood or God-ship to all, but only if he could set up God's everlasting Kingdom on earth, but He failed, and we all failed...

He (YHWH) was surprised about our disobedience, and was getting extremely frustrated and angry by our, and His own "failure" basically...

He knew most, if not all, that would happen in the case of failure...

So, what really happened...? Well, Jesus may have called YHWH or God in and of the OT "Satan" possibly... claiming to be better and more powerful than Him, ect...

Unless YHWH lost the world to Satan by Jesus time, which was a question I posed in this thread:

Did YHWH lose the world to Satan by Jesus time...?

But if not, Jesus might have been calling YHWH Satan... I'm worried that He might have made a major mistake...

The thoughts expressed by me in this thread show the debacle or "pickle" both He (Christ) and they (YHWH and Christ) put us all in, or led us all to...

And it is a pickle to be sure... But they are here, and very, very real...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I think the "trinity" consists of the two Sons of God, and then, the Father God Himself...

I have issues with both the Sons, and those issues with them, cause me to take up those issues directly with God the Father and take issue with even Him sometimes as well...

God the Father was/is, I guess you could say the more distant, less directly involved one, because that's what He has his Sons for, and He actually works in them and through them...

God the Father is and was the one and only truly and fully omniscient one from the very beginning, the two Sons are or were not (yet)... The Father alone predestines all and everything, especially here, including us, all the angels, AND also the two Sons of His meant to be here with us to be and try to be our God/God's... The two Sons are meant to be our God "here with us"...

The Father sets all of us, even them, up...

God Bless!

 

[SkyWriting]

Let's begin with a question of omniscience... YHWH was not 100% fully omniscient and neither was Jesus fully when he was here with us as man either, not fully... But there is such a one who really genuinely truly was (100% fully omniscient) and always was, and is (and always will be, if that even applies), who is neither one of them (Jesus/YHWH) by themselves, or individually, but, maybe only "together" or "after the cross", IF Jesus and YHWH are not the same one or were always were/was the same one always, that is...

Either way those two had to become one for either one of them to be or become like, the "One and only, always from the very beginning, completely and 100% truly, always fully omniscient one, and was the only one to have been and ever been so, from the very beginning or even before the beginning of any or all things."

Anyway, "that One" is The "Universal Father" and is the highest God, and/but that was not YHWH or Christ, not before the cross anyway... I propose that "together" Christ and YHWH become/became "one" at the cross or right after the cross, and, maybe, "at that time", became just like the "Universal Father God", after that, together, unless of course YHWH and Christ are the same one and/or person...

But they might have been separate and might have even been opposed to each other in a way or in some or many ways, till they met in the middle somewhere and became "one new man" or "one new God" at, or right after the cross, cause that's where they were reconciled and became "one"...

(Ephesians 2:14-16)

For he is our peace, who hath made both (YHWH and Christ) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; (YHWH and Christ) (or those of Law and works, ect and those of Grace, Mercy, Love, Forgiveness, ect) (the two sides or ideologies) (some say conflicting) Having abolished (this) in his flesh (in his (Jesus's) "mortal" body) the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man (or God) (New person and/or new personality), so making peace; (between YHWH and Christ) (Between those of Law and Grace, ect) And that he might reconcile both (YHWH an Christ) (or what they each stand for) unto God (The "Universal Father") in one body by the cross, (going to and dying as, or joining as, one new person and dying together at the cross) having slain the enmity thereby (having slain the enmity thereby) (thereby "this", or what was just said)...

God Bless!

The Father was 100%.
The Son choose to be less than 100% until His death on the cross.

 

[Neogaia777]

The Father was 100%.

I would say he would have to be, to be the true Father God...

The Son choose to be less than 100% until His death on the cross.

Even as, or beginning with His life as YHWH in the OT...? I don't know for sure that He is but it's one highly likely possibility that could be true... But, I tried explaining and covering as many possibilities as I could in this thread already...

But I guess I can't expect everyone to be 100% completely and totally neutral and objective (or an open mind either) when it come to this subject or these matters though, I guess...

God Bless!