Omnipresence of Jesus Christ God the Son?

GoldenKingGaze

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Jesus Christ is God the Son incarnate into a Hebrew family. At this time He seemed to be in one place at one time. This finished with His glorification and Hebrews says His presence fills the universe.

It seems God in each of His three personages, has a central presence. The Father and the Son in Heaven, on thrones, the Spirit with us here. Before Christ was conceived He would have had a body of some sort as described in Exodus. Moses saw God's back, and all the people saw the pillar of fire and heard the voice come from within.

What happened to the Son's old body, or is the Son simply in two places at once?

Jesus as the man who is hypostaticly united with the Son as one person. And The Son in Spirit with us and the Son and His original presence expressed to see.
 

Daniel9v9

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You've run into a central question in Christology here. It gets pretty technical as it has a long history and was in fact one of the first major theological issues in the early church, in order to defend against strange novice teachings - especially Docetism (that deny Christ the man) and Arianism (that deny Christ the God), also Adoptionism (that holds that Jesus the man was made God).

The Reformed tradition it has at least two predominant views, albeit very close and almost in agreement, with the exception about complications linked to the Eucharist. That is, how can Christ be in the Eucharist? This is a discussion in itself, but to answer the question in line with the orthodox Christian faith, as expressed in the Creeds and held by all major Christian branches, is that Jesus Christ is 100% man and 100% God. His nature is really a holy mystery, but his divine nature (including omnipotence) and his human nature are distinct, but still form one person; that is, God the Son. There's no mingling of attributes (like a demi-god), but they are mysteriously connected in one person. In Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily. This is far beyond our comprehension and impossible to properly study or formulate. In a word, there is one Lord and one God, and he is omnipresent.
 
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Tolworth John

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Jesus Christ is God the Son incarnate into a Hebrew family. At this time He seemed to be in one place at one time. This finished with His glorification and Hebrews says His presence fills the universe.

It seems God in each of His three personages, has a central presence. The Father and the Son in Heaven, on thrones, the Spirit with us here. Before Christ was conceived He would have had a body of some sort as described in Exodus. Moses saw God's back, and all the people saw the pillar of fire and heard the voice come from within.

What happened to the Son's old body, or is the Son simply in two places at once?

Jesus as the man who is hypostaticly united with the Son as one person. And The Son in Spirit with us and the Son and His original presence expressed to see.

What happened to the body in the tomb? How did it get out?
Jesus was able to make his body move from place to place and to be elsewhere, when not on earth.

His risen body is as Paul discribed is a 'spiritual body'
What it is capable of we don't know as we have to wait to experience it ourselves.

Jesus is God, he is not limited by our theological understanding.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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What happened to the body in the tomb? How did it get out?
Jesus was able to make his body move from place to place and to be elsewhere, when not on earth.

His risen body is as Paul discribed is a 'spiritual body'
What it is capable of we don't know as we have to wait to experience it ourselves.

Jesus is God, he is not limited by our theological understanding.
In the tomb Jesus body was empty of the Spirit. John describes Jesus spiritual body. And I mentioned Exodus.
 
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Tolworth John

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In the tomb Jesus body was empty of the Spirit. John describes Jesus spiritual body. And I mentioned Exodus.
When it was burried yes, but when Jesus rose from the dead it was his dead body he had.

The tomb's stone was rolled away so the women could enter and see there was no body.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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When it was burried yes, but when Jesus rose from the dead it was his dead body he had.

The tomb's stone was rolled away so the women could enter and see there was no body.
Yes I know that, Jesus was absent from His body for hours. I am interested in what other Christians think of Jesus pre-conception body and in His omnipresence, thick presence, central, and universe filling presence.
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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Mary ran into the risen Jesus and did not recognize Him...she thought He was the gardener...until He began to speak to her...Same for a couple of disciples on the road to Emmaus, they did not recognize Jesus. "O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:" ...until they pleaded with Him to stay (for the day was far spent), He then reclined at the table breaking bread with them, then their eyes were opened...
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Mary ran into the risen Jesus and did not recognize Him...she thought He was the gardener...until He began to speak to her...Same for a couple of disciples on the road to Emmaus, they did not recognize Jesus. "O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:" ...until they pleaded with Him to stay (for the day was far spent), He then reclined at the table breaking bread with them, then their eyes were opened...
Yes but I am talking about the Son's omnipresence.
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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Yes but I am talking about the Son's omnipresence.

God's glory fills the whole earth. It fills His temple (not made with human hands...) and Paul said, "Christ in you, the hope of glory." It has to do with perception...where we are seeing from as the question asked of Adam, "Where art thou?"...after the deep slumber and change of eyesight...the fall...

Jesus said "the kingdom is within you"... and "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." ..."the flesh profiteth nothing..."

When we see the spirit of Christ as something separate from/outside our being, the eye is not yet single...not given (restored) eyesight to 'see' as Isaiah 6 speaks...the revealing taking place within...the truth of being ONE as Jesus prayed in John 17 ...That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us...And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;...that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

As Paul said in Galatians 1:15-16
But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me...

There is no place God is not...
 
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~Anastasia~

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Jesus Christ is God the Son incarnate into a Hebrew family. At this time He seemed to be in one place at one time. This finished with His glorification and Hebrews says His presence fills the universe.

It seems God in each of His three personages, has a central presence. The Father and the Son in Heaven, on thrones, the Spirit with us here. Before Christ was conceived He would have had a body of some sort as described in Exodus. Moses saw God's back, and all the people saw the pillar of fire and heard the voice come from within.

What happened to the Son's old body, or is the Son simply in two places at once?

Jesus as the man who is hypostaticly united with the Son as one person. And The Son in Spirit with us and the Son and His original presence expressed to see.

The problem is that we tend to make existence equal to physicality. If Jesus existed as a discrete Person prior to the incarnation (and He did, of course), He must have had a body?

He did have a "body" but not a physically created one in the material world as we have. Just as we conceive of the Father as Spirit, and know the Holy Spirit as Spirit, so Jesus prior to the Incarnation was Spirit.

The spiritual existence is certainly no less real than ours. Indeed, perhaps our material existence is the less real, since it only copies and makes shadows of spiritual realities. That isn't the issue though. But yes, Christ existed in a spiritual body.

People could still see him and interact with Him though, if He chose. There are a number of appearances of Christ in the Old Testament. Just as angels can be sent to aid man, to interact with the world, whether they are seen by us or unseen (both are possible) ... because they are of the spiritual world as well and have bodies of a spiritual sort.

Christ took flesh FROM the Virgin Mary and became man at the time of the Incarnation, just as any baby grows inside its mother. That was the whole point. And after that point, He possessed two natures, both God and Man, the only being ever to have done so. This was in order to ultimately reconcile us to God (and through us, the created order, since we are all priests in a sense). He was able to bridge the gap we had made between spiritual and created and bring the two together, first in His own Being, then by making possible us being reunited with God.

His body after the resurrection was the same physical body He had during his life on earth, but it had been glorified. What exactly that means in detail, we do not know. He could still eat and be touched. Yet He could also suddenly appear in a locked room. This is the sort of body our actual physical bodies will become at the resurrection of the dead, when our departed spirits will be reunited with our bodies before the judgement, just as His was at His Resurrection.
 
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dzheremi

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In addition to the theophanies mentioned above belonging to the OT, it is fairly standard to traditional Christianity that we treat the Theotokos St. Mary as a type of the OT tabernacle. So He is present in the OT not only literally, but is in Himself and in His Incarnation and Nativity the carrying forth of the OT promises made to God's people into our own time -- the "light unto the Gentiles" prophesied in Isaiah is thereby fulfilled in the coming of Christ, as shown most explicitly in the presentation of Christ in the temple in Luke 2 (wherein Simeon quotes Isaiah directly with reference to Christ).

Such it is that we can find the affirmations of the OT typoiogies in our hymns, as in the sixth part of the Saturday Theotokia chanted during Vespers in the Coptic Orthodox Church, where we sing of the Theotokos:

+ The tabernacle which is called, the holy of holies, which contains the ark, overlaid roundabout with gold.

Wherein are the tablets, of the covenant, and the golden vessel, wherein the manna was hidden.

+ This is a symbol of the Son of God, who came and dwelt in Mary, the undefiled Virgin, and was incarnate of her.

She gave birth to Him unto the world, in unity without separation, for He is the King of glory, who came and saved us.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Jesus Christ is God the Son incarnate into a Hebrew family. At this time He seemed to be in one place at one time. This finished with His glorification and Hebrews says His presence fills the universe.

As God He never ceased to be what He always was.

It seems God in each of His three personages, has a central presence. The Father and the Son in Heaven, on thrones, the Spirit with us here.

You are assuming heaven as a place, but that isn't really the sense Scripture has when it describes God's presence, it instead speaks of God's limitless and boundless presence. Scripture does speak of God inhabiting and being present in special ways however, in the Old Testament it was the Tabernacle/Temple, in the New Testament it is Christ/His Church. This is equally true of all three Persons of the Holy and Blessed Trinity.

Before Christ was conceived He would have had a body of some sort as described in Exodus. Moses saw God's back, and all the people saw the pillar of fire and heard the voice come from within.

Not a body, those are theophanies.

What happened to the Son's old body,

He is risen!

or is the Son simply in two places at once?

The body that was laid in the tomb is the body that was raised up, and with which He is seated at the right hand of the Father in glory. And He is limitless and boundless.

Jesus as the man who is hypostaticly united with the Son as one person.

Incorrect. Jesus is the Son. Jesus is the Eternal and Divine Logos. The Word didn't inhabit a body, there is a true unity of Deity and humanity, perfect and without confusion or separation, in the one Jesus Christ.

And The Son in Spirit with us and the Son and His original presence expressed to see.

The Son is ever-present because He is God, and this has always been true and remains true. The mystery of the resurrection adds further dimension to this, as we observe in the Gospels that the Lord after the resurrection did not have the same bodily contraints He beforehand would have had. He is present everywhere, He is present in His Word and Sacraments, He is present in His people by the Spirit.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Incorrect. Jesus is the Son. Jesus is the Eternal and Divine Logos. The Word didn't inhabit a body, there is a true unity of Deity and humanity, perfect and without confusion or separation, in the one Jesus Christ.
-CryptoLutheran
I have studied this and I know what you mean. At conception and perhaps with preparation, God took a human spirit and soul, to be, and made it one being with the Son, Himself, and grew in Mary's womb. With a human like but sinless nature. And He was emptied of the appearance of Glory... He appeared to be another Hebrew boy. When we think of Jesus we think of a man, and when the Christ of God. And we call Him the God man...

I think Moses really saw God's back in the cleft of the rock, and that he was not permitted to see God's face. God the Father or the Son. And I suspect God the Son had a body of some sort. And consider here, what happened to His old body, when He entered this world.

Interestingly there were three great presences in the Exodus, the Angel of the Lord, in whom was God's name. There was the pillar of fire by night and the presence on the mountain itself.
 
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~Anastasia~

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God did not hijack a human baby or man and meld him with Jesus, or possess him, or any such thing as that.

This is why it was a virgin birth. The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary (no sexual implications) and through the power of God, she miraculously conceived a child. The child had human flesh, the child WAS Jesus in His full divinity from the moment of conception.

God BECAME Man. It was a miracle.



Nothing had to happen to His "old body" because He was not flesh prior to the incarnation.

Consider ... He was with the Father in the beginning, when all things were created. Without Him nothing was created. Would you imagine He had a body of flesh in a non-existent universe? Where was He before He created anything, if He always existed? These questions make no sense - because God is Spirit.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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God did not hijack a human baby or man and meld him with Jesus, or possess him, or any such thing as that.

This is why it was a virgin birth. The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary (no sexual implications) and through the power of God, she miraculously conceived a child. The child had human flesh, the child WAS Jesus in His full divinity from the moment of conception.

God BECAME Man. It was a miracle.



Nothing had to happen to His "old body" because He was not flesh prior to the incarnation.

Consider ... He was with the Father in the beginning, when all things were created. Without Him nothing was created. Would you imagine He had a body of flesh in a non-existent universe? Where was He before He created anything, if He always existed? These questions make no sense - because God is Spirit.
Neither do I believe God hijacked a baby. He makes us all. Jesus from conception was fully human. Being made with a human spirit, soul and body. And somehow beyond earthly person's knowledge, almighty God the Son was in there as one and the same person with the zygote and later the child. Amazing that God who fills the universe with His presence, could be in such a small space. And I suppose this was prepared for before conception.

I personally think we existed before conception. Unlike Roman Catholics.

The God man, or fully God, fully man.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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In NDEs and in Revelation there are thrones in Heaven. Jesus at the right hand of the Father on an equal plane. The Holy Spirit is here not on His throne. From Jesus' throne flows a river of living water, on either side are the Tree of Life. I think The Son had some sort of body. Ian McCormack testifies that as he approached Heaven waves of love came over him and he had a body of light. As ancient Adam walked in the garden of Eden he walked with Elohim, who not long before said "Let us make man in our image and likeness." Either Elohim was there or only in Spirit.

Abraham also met three men of great nature. And there is Melchizedek.
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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In the beginning, before God spoke a word and all there was was darkness, " the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Then, His first word was to call light out of the darkness. In the beginning, "The Word was God." (John 1) And, "
In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

The same spirit lives in every man.

What happened to the Son's old body, or is the Son simply in two places at once?

Jesus as the man who is hypostaticly united with the Son as one person. And The Son in Spirit with us and the Son and His original presence expressed to see.

Adam was one, alone, with God. Then God placed him in a deep slumber, wounded his side to take out a woman (who was not called Eve until after the fall) who prepared the feast Adam ate.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
The one became two. A picture of our soul...and how we (in the beginning) perceive the spirit as something separate from/outside of our very being. Spiritual consciousness within when we begin to see the Light...as it relates to our soul and becoming ONE as Jesus prayed in John 17.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating even as far as the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrows, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.


...after the fall, God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them. Prior to the fall, they were naked and not ashamed...had no eyesight change (perception)...after the fall, the eyesight/perception change occurred with God asking "Where art thou?"

Spiritual body has nothing to do with the flesh...

John 6:62 Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before? 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

John 6:65 Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”

Paul said the mystery being revealed..."Christ in you, the hope of glory." We are the temple not made with human hands/the dwelling place of God...God's glory fills the temple...

Paul knew this revealing within himself...Galatians 1:15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by His grace, was pleased 16 to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not rush to consult with flesh and blood,

Colossians 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead,...

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

We all have the same father...God who fills all in all...One spirit...

Jesus said "I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind."

God speaks out of the abundance of His heart. Everything we see is a manifestation of The Word HE spoke. God is a word...what is in The Word is based upon the reality of the one whose word it is...where they are perceiving from...at first we see dimly, then face to face...know as fully as we have always been known...from the beginning...

The two must become ONE....again
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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In the beginning, before God spoke a word and all there was was darkness, " the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Then, His first word was to call light out of the darkness. In the beginning, "The Word was God." (John 1) And, "
In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."
The two must become ONE....again

Before God spoke a word? God created time.
And in this universe God's first words were spoken over the Earth?
You do agree that the word that is Christ was not created and is equal to the Father and the Spirit?

I am still interested in what was the visible image of the Son before David...
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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Before God spoke a word? God created time.
And in this universe God's first words were spoken over the Earth?
You do agree that the word that is Christ was not created and is equal to the Father and the Spirit?

I am still interested in what was the visible image of the Son before David...

Yes, I agree that Christ has always been One with God, not created...is God...before He sent it (word spoken) forth, even, to speak all there is into 'being'...

In Genesis 1, the first words God spoke were "let there be light"...the word was within Him always...a part of Him. I, now, see ONE (just as Jesus prayed for us)...God/spirit/Word/

Abraham saw Jesus' day, and rejoiced in it...Faith the key to 'seeing'...God is an invisible spirit. Jesus said, "Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" ...where we perceive the Son to be is key...I believe many saw the Son in the O.T. (like Abraham)...Enoch...Jacob wrestled with a man (yet he knew it was God) from dark of night til dawn for the promise of God...for God meets us where we are at (perceiving)

Hosea 1:10 says "Ye are the sons of the living God." Paul said "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God."

The human mind tends to need physical images for the Son...When Jesus had the disciples touch his wounds, was to prove He was not a manifesting spirit...He had not yet gone to the Father, not yet been glorified...for 40 days after resurrection He walked the earth...
Luke 24:39 Look at My hands and My feet. It is I Myself. Touch Me and see--for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

The body of flesh is an earthen vessel/container for the spirit...five senses cannot 'see'/perceive it...As Job said, "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear; But now my eye sees You..." Which Jesus said, "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light."

Jesus came to show The Way (back)...Alpha and Omega...First and the Last Adam...which all have to do with the Son...a son that has been from the beginning...

The Son is as much an individual truth as it is collectively...inwardly...
 
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Just a minor interjection, (not able to read everything btw), but our Tradition teaches that human beings are composite - we are both flesh and spirit.

Both the physical body and our spirit is part of who we are. When the soul is separated from the body at death, this is an unnatural state for humans, not according to God's plan, but the result of death that we brought to the flesh through Adam's sin. This is why our physical bodies will be resurrected and our spirit reunited with it, so that we will once again be whole human beings. (That body will be glorified, so unlike the body as it is now, but we do not know the details of what it will be like).
 
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