Old Testament saints were born again.

[HeartThaw]

There are other cases in Scripture where the Spirit later came upon others after having believed. A person believing in Jesus does not always equate with them receiving of the Holy Spirit right away. The disciples were no different. But please take note that Jesus said He would send to his disciples ANOTHER comforter. Who was the first Comforter? It was Jesus Christ living and abiding within His disciples. For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12).

22 "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; "
(John 17:22-23).


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I already showed you a verse Isaiah 11:2 where the Spirit was " upon " them and it wasn't the Comforter.


If He does NOT go the Comforter CAN NOT come ... I don't know why you're adding to the Word Jason,

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I already showed you a verse Isaiah 11:2 where the Spirit was " upon " them and it wasn't the Comforter.


If He does NOT go the Comforter CAN NOT come ... I don't know why you're adding to the Word Jason,

It is not adding. John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit and David said to God to not take His Holy Spirit from him.

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[HeartThaw]

It does not matter if John was the greatest or not. The fact of the matter is that John had the Holy Spirit (just like many others in the Old Testament). John was not an exception to the rule.


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It matters because the Bible says it does ... I just showed you a verse for that in Matthew 11:14 ..

 

[HeartThaw]

It is not adding. John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit and David said to God to not take His Holy Spirit from him.

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They're all Holy... They are Gods, but don't twist The Helper/ The Comforter with the other. They are different...

And it is adding ... Because that's not what Jesus said

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It matters because the Bible says it does ... I just showed you a verse for that in Matthew 11:14 ..

The verse does not say John was exclusive to having the Holy Spirit. That is something you are assuming the text says when it specifically does not state that. For even Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:41). Also how do you explain away David saying to God not to take His Holy Spirit from him in the Psalms? (See Psalms 51:11).

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[Bible Highlighter]

Also, in regards to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within the Old Testament saints: What do you make of Genesis 41:38, Numbers 27:18, Isaiah 63:11, Ezekiel 11:19, and Ezekiel 36:26-27?

In addition, while John 14:23 is not talking about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, it does show that both God the Father and the Son of God had the capacity to indwell believers before Christ's crucifixion (Which would have been the time of the Old Covenant still). For Jesus essentially says that both the Father and the Son were able to make their abode (or home) within a person if they love God by keeping His words.

"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14:23).


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[vinsight4u]

/

 

[HeartThaw]

Also, in regards to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within the Old Testament saints: What do you make of Genesis 41:38, Numbers 27:18, Isaiah 63:11, Ezekiel 11:19, and Ezekiel 36:26-27?

In addition, while John 14:23 is not talking about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, it does show that both God the Father and the Son of God had the capacity to indwell believers before Christ's crucifixion (Which would have been the time of the Old Covenant still). For Jesus essentially says that both the Father and the Son were able to make their abode (or home) within a person if they love God by keeping His words.

"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14:23).


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I will look in to all those scriptures Jason as soon as you look in to one... and give me a thought out response on it,

John 16:7

7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.



Btw this was Jesus Himself saying this...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I will look in to all those scriptures Jason as soon as you look in to one... and give me a thought out response on it,

John 16:7

7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.



Btw this was Jesus Himself saying this...

This is not a new verse for me. I am very aware of what it does say and what it does not say. Scripture has to be looked at as a whole. The verses I provided you are just some of the evidence of the truth that OT saints were indwelled by the Spirit of God.

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[ZacharyB]

IMO, re: the Comforter, Helper, etc.
Jesus was simply referring to the Holy Spirit
who would come inside born-again believers.
This was to be a new and special case,
i.e. part of God's "new and better" covenant.

The upon in the NT is a whole other matter.
This is a very special anointing for some ministry.

God's Spirit had never before come inside God's people
to comfort them, guide them, teach them, etc.

In the old covenant, He came upon God's prophets
when He would have them prophesy ... and people like
King David and John the Baptist were special cases.

Lots of specially-anointed people, such as Lot.
Please don't put God in a box.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God is not is respecter of persons. If God indwelled John the Baptist and David then God indwelled other OT saints. The problem arises is when man today thinks he is more special than other people. However, God doesn't think like that, though.


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[HeartThaw]

This is not a new verse for me. I am very aware of what it does say and what it does not say. Scripture has to be looked at as a whole. The verses I provided you are just some of the evidence of the truth that OT saints were indwelled by the Spirit of God.

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I didn't ask you if it was a new verse to you or not. I asked for a thought out response on the verse. Scripture compliments itself as a whole but they are separate books, and each story and verse has substance of its own overall, especially when the Messiah Himself is speaking, it's inspired by God. Jesus was speaking of exactly what we are discussing yet you have no response for it?

This wasn't a thought out response to the verse that was provided Jason. All you're saying is you know the verse....and? The verse contradicts everything YOU are trying to teach here.

I don't know how anyone can read this and then believe anything different then what JESUS said?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I didn't ask you if it was a new verse to you or not. I asked for a thought out response on the verse. Scripture compliments itself as a whole but they are separate books, and each story and verse has substance of its own overall, especially when the Messiah Himself is speaking, it's inspired by God. Jesus was speaking of exactly what we are discussing yet you have no response for it?

This wasn't a thought out response to the verse that was provided Jason. All you're saying is you know the verse....and? The verse contradicts everything YOU are trying to teach here.

I don't know how anyone can read this and then believe anything different then what JESUS said?

Not sure how my explaining the verse is going to help you to see any different than what you believe. You are making the verse say something that it does not specifically state. In order for your belief to work here, you have to:

(a) Ignore or rework the wording in the other verses I brought up.
(b) Make John 16:7 say that Jesus statement to his disciples applies even before He said it. To me, it sounds like Jesus is talking about a present tense reality and His words were not something that was going back into time or anything.

John 16:7
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you"

Now, you might reason that the disciples never had the Comforter so that means no OT saint never had the Comforter before. Nothing in the above verse is said on whether or not other believers had the Spirit or not (and or if the disciples did not have the indwelling of the Spirit before). But we know clearly that others did have the Comforter before in the OT. Joseph, Joshua, King David, and John the Baptist, etc.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I mean, if you think about it, how can somebody be saved without God living in them? Is not God the source of our salvation? How can one have the understanding of God's Word without God? How can one walk with God if they do not have God living in them?


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[HeartThaw]

I mean, if you think about it, how can somebody be saved without God living in them? Is not God the source of our salvation? How can one have the understanding of God's Word without God? How can one walk with God if they do not have God living in them?


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The how? They lived by the mosaic law, and sacrificed lambs, heifers, doves, and all kinds of animals... They were awaiting the Messiah, and what you are doing is pretty much saying Jesus didn't have to come " the Holy Spirit was already here " ... Why did we need the savior to come in the flesh Jason? That we may die to self and live in spirit with the Holy Spirit directing. Picking up our cross, and walking as He walked bearing the " fruits of His Holy Spirit " not ours...you still never explained to me what you think it says other then " it sounds like He's talking about a present tense reality " ...

He did say it in present tense and He meant exactly what He said, if He didn't go the Comforter could not come. Why is this hard to accept? Other people that are non-denom accept this, I don't understand why you aren't ?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The how? They lived by the mosaic law, and sacrificed lambs, heifers, doves, and all kinds of animals... They were awaiting the Messiah, and what you are doing is pretty much saying Jesus didn't have to come " the Holy Spirit was already here " ... It's wrong, and you still never explained to me what you think it says other then " it sounds like He's talking about a present tense reality " ...

He did say it in present tense and He meant exactly what He said, if He didn't go the Comforter could not come. Why is this hard to accept? Other people that are non-denom accept this, I don't understand why you aren't ?

Are you getting upset?
Do you not think that I find that what you believe is wrong?
Were you not mistaken and upset before?

I would just stop and pray about these things and examine both sides of the issue extensively before you cast judgement again, my friend. God's people are patient and kind.

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[HeartThaw]

Are you getting upset?
Do you not think that I find that what you believe is wrong?
We're you not mistaken and upset before?

I would just stop and pray about these things and examine both sides of the issue extensively before you cast judgement again, my friend. God's people are patient and kind.

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What makes you think I'm upset? If I were upset do you think you would have to ask? I know you think I'm wrong... but what I don't understand is how you take the Messiahs words for anything other then what He said. If I didn't care Jason, I'd let you continue and say nothing at all.

I don't think you're getting anything from my post, we will have to just disagree and leave it to the reader here brother Jason. Love to you

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What makes you think I'm upset? If I were upset do you think you would have to ask? I know you think I'm wrong... but what I don't understand is how you take the Messiahs words for anything other then what He said. If I didn't care Jason, I'd let you continue and say nothing at all.

Not speaking does not mean one does not care. Jesus did not always reply. Sometimes there is nothing left to say because a person wants to see what they want to see regardless of the truth. While I do not know your intentions, I would encourage you to research it yourself. Remember the Bereans were more noble because they searched the Scriptures on whether those things were so or not. The Comforter not being given till after Christ's resurrection does not speak to all believer's experiences before Christ stated this within his ministry. Again, John the Baptist had the Holy Ghost since birth. So this is a truth I believe you are not accepting. But that is okay. When you are ready for it, you will learn of it.


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[HeartThaw]

Not speaking does not mean one does not care. Jesus did not always reply. Sometimes there is nothing left to say because a person wants to see what they want to see regardless of the truth. While I do not know your intentions, I would encourage you to research it yourself. Remember the Bereans were more noble because they searched the Scriptures on whether those things were so or not. The Comforter not being given till after Christ's resurrection does not speak to all believer's experiences before Christ stated this within his ministry. Again, John the Baptist had the Holy Ghost since birth. So this is a truth I believe you are not accepting. But that is okay. When you are ready for it, you will learn of it.


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Acts 2:1-4


1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Matthew 3:11

11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

I have done some studying brother Jason, I would hope you take heed to your own advice.

 

[ZacharyB]

God is not is respecter of persons. If God indwelled John the Baptist and David then God indwelled other OT saints.

This is plain idiocy, total insanity actually.
You are saying that if God chooses to indwell 2, He must also indwell more than 2.
You are playing God again ... telling Him what He must do or must have done!
God can indwell exactly as many as He chooses to, not as many as you say He must.