Ok - is abortion a sin? POLL

[Kate30]

SPF I never said that children born outside of marriage are morally of less value. What I did say is that if a couple has mutually agreed to sexual union. ( BOTH ) And if a child is conceived out of that union then they are responsible for that’s child’s well being. Rape is completely different and the moral consequences are completely different too. One is of mutual agreement and the other is not. How does the God look down and view his creation . SPF I think last time he looked he did send a great flood. Why do you ask? You do say that God does love us all the same? That’s simply not true. For God did love Jacob but Esau he did not. I’m sure God knows who he loves and who he does not. But I’m sure the God does love you. It is some late now. I must sleep.

 

[SPF]

SPF I never said that children born outside of marriage are morally of less value. What I did say is that if a couple has mutually agreed to sexual union. ( BOTH ) And if a child is conceived out of that union then they are responsible for that’s child’s well being. Rape is completely different and the moral consequences are completely different too. One is of mutual agreement and the other is not. How does the God look down and view his creation . SPF I think last time he looked he did send a great flood. Why do you ask? You do say that God does love us all the same? That’s simply not true. For God did love Jacob but Esau he did not. I’m sure God knows who he loves and who he does not. But I’m sure the God does love you. It is some late now. I must sleep.

So God doesn't love the unborn child that came into existence VIA rape? It's perfectly fine if they get killed since it was their poor luck to come into existence from rape as opposed to consent?

 

[Kate30]

So God doesn't love the unborn child that came into existence VIA rape? It's perfectly fine if they get killed since it was their poor luck to come into existence from rape as opposed to consent?

SPF God loves who he pleases. As to the baby via rape. Yes I’m sure he can and I’m sure he has done so many times before. Perhaps he has done so all throughout history. Should that really affect what a rape victim chooses with her decision to say yes or no.

 

[SPF]

SPF God loves who he pleases. As to the baby via rape. Yes I’m sure he can and I’m sure he has done so many times before. Perhaps he has done so all throughout history. Should that really affect what a rape victim chooses with her decision to say yes or no.

Are you insinuating that God doesn’t love aborted babies? Or just that God doesn’t love babies that are the result of rape?

 

[Kate30]

Are you insinuating that God doesn’t love aborted babies? Or just that God doesn’t love babies that are the result of rape?

I didn’t insinuate that. God will love who he pleases. SPF God has chosen at times to kill entire communities Including their children and unborn as well. He once drowned a entire world you know. I’m sure there was countless babies born and unborn amongst the multitude there too. Are you now going to condemn the Creator of the universe for abortion and being unloving as well?

 

[SPF]

I didn’t insinuate that. God will love who he pleases. SPF God has chosen at times to kill entire communities Including their children and unborn as well. He once drowned a entire world you know. I’m sure there was countless babies born and unborn amongst the multitude there too. Are you now going to condemn the Creator of the universe for abortion and being unloving as well?

No, I'm certainly not going to condemn God. What I am going to do is recognize that I'm not God and that God, as the Creator and ultimate authority has the right to do what He wants. That however, does not extend to me, because I am not God.

It sounds like you're saying that since God has carried out justice and His will that it somehow means that it translates to me and my ability to carry out my will and kill another human if I think it's OK?

I don't think so.

 

[Kate30]

No, I'm certainly not going to condemn God. What I am going to do is recognize that I'm not God and that God, as the Creator and ultimate authority has the right to do what He wants. That however, does not extend to me, because I am not God.

It sounds like you're saying that since God has carried out justice and His will that it somehow means that it translates to me and my ability to carry out my will and kill another human if I think it's OK?

I don't think so.

You don’t think so. Not even to protect your wife and family from impending danger. Are you sure ?

 

[SPF]

You don’t think so. Not even to protect your wife and family from impending danger. Are you sure ?

Defending my family from an attacker is different than killing an innocent and vulnerable human being who has not threatened me.

 

[Kate30]

SPF I would not wish that apon you .

 

[SPF]

SPF Congratulations you have just saved your lovely wife from maybe rape and impregnation. But on the other side of the coin you have just denied a potential baby. So which is moral when it comes to you?

You're kidding right? I've denied a lot of potential babies after getting a vasectomy when my wife almost died after having our third. People deny potential babies all the time when they use condoms, or track ovulation and simply don't have sex when the woman is ovulating, etc etc...

Are you attempting to equate the actual, live killing of an actual living human being with the choice to not try and create a living human being? How old are you? What level of education do you have?

You can't murder something that doesn't exist.

 

[GodLovesCats]

This is another reason I would keep government reach out of this family matter. What if rape is an ethical gray area? The justice system's ability to handle rape cases in anywhere near a just manner is already virtually zero.

Rape is never an ethical gray area. To think otherwise would be not knowing what rape is. What shouldn't be a public issue is medically necessary abortions (as determined solely by the parents and doctor).

 

[Kate30]

You're kidding right? I've denied a lot of potential babies after getting a vasectomy when my wife almost died after having our third. People deny potential babies all the time when they use condoms, or track ovulation and simply don't have sex when the woman is ovulating, etc etc...

Are you attempting to equate the actual, live killing of an actual living human being with the choice to not try and create a living human being? How old are you? What level of education do you have?

You can't murder something that doesn't exist.

SPF My previous reply brings home the true reality of rape. As you said you would do everthing in your power to protect your family from such a ordeal. Yet you demand of others who were not so fortunate no choice in what they choose from the aftermath of rape. As to vasectomy many would frown apon that. But I don’t because you love your wife very much and you don’t want to endanger her once again. As to tracking ovulation. Well I’m sure many of us have discovered with amazement that doesn’t quite work when you follow the guidelines from the book. As to other preventative measures such as condoms. Well many religious faiths may disagree with that. Especially once your married. No condoms allowed. You ask How old am I. What level of education do I have. A few years younger than you. Associates degree. But I’m some curious with what that does have to do with anything. You asked if I was kidding at the beginning of your reply. My reply to you is that Christ generally had no time for comedians and nor do I.

 

[usexpat97]

Rape is never an ethical gray area. To think otherwise would be not knowing what rape is. What shouldn't be a public issue is medically necessary abortions (as determined solely by the parents and doctor).

You misunderstood. Abortion in the case of rape is a gray area. Some will feel strongly one way or another, but it is a gray area. Plus, what makes rape gray is that only the victim and the suspect know for sure whether it happened at all. What do the rest of us do in a he-said, she-said situation?

 

[GodLovesCats]

Defending my family from an attacker is different than killing an innocent and vulnerable human being who has not threatened me.

Think of it this way: If you knew you must die to let the baby live, would you want to be killed and make the baby live without a mom? OF COURSE NOT!

 

[GodLovesCats]

You misunderstood. Abortion in the case of rape is a gray area. Some will feel strongly one way or another, but it is a gray area. Plus, what makes rape gray is that only the victim and the suspect know for sure whether it happened at all. What do the rest of us do in a he-said, she-said situation?

When a victim calls the police department, the response certainly is police coming to the propery to meet her and kick off an investigation. Evidence will be found after they get a search warrant. If the rape made her pregnant, a court judge will get evidence from the gynocologist who diagnosed her pregnancy. This is not a "he said, she said" situation because whenever cops are involved, evidence will be used to prove or disprove her accusation that she was impregnated by rape.

 

[SPF]

Think of it this way: If you knew you must die to let the baby live, would you want to be killed and make the baby live without a mom? OF COURSE NOT!

The vast majority of all abortions are committed for non-medical reasons, and those are the ones that I believe are morally wrong.

And this statement sounds like someone who doesn't have children. I know as a father I would die for my children. I can't imagine myself or my wife not doing everything we can, including sacrificing our lives to protect our children.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Have you seriously thought about the consequences to all of of your friends, family members, and others, regardless of their opinions about abortion, if you knowingly chose to die for the sake of a baby's life that, because of your death, may not last more than a day?

 

[SPF]

Have you seriously thought about the consequences to all of of your friends, family members, and others, regardless of their opinions about abortion, if you knowingly chose to die for the sake of a baby's life that, because of your death, may not last more than a day?

Yea, you're definitely not a parent. If someone broke into my home, you had better believe that I'm going to do everything in my power to save the lives of my family. What are you proposing here, do you think if someone were to break into my home that I should jump out the window and leave my wife and kids on their own to fend for themselves?

Or let's say I was downstairs and someone broke in through a window upstairs. Should I shrug my shoulders and make sure I live because I have more utilitarian worth than my children? Should I run out the front door and leave my three boys, all under 10 alone in the house with someone who just broke in?

Have you read the Bible? Do you know who Jesus is? Do you know what it means to love others? I'm really confused by what you're saying.

 

[GodLovesCats]

SPF, I was crystal clear to you this is 100% about medical conditions which are only caused by pregnancy and will kill the mother. I never said anything about cimmitting suiced for an attacker in the home.

 

[SPF]

SPF, I was crystal clear to you this is 100% about medical conditions which are only caused by pregnancy and will kill the mother. I never said anything about cimmitting suiced for an attacker in the home.

And I made it crystal clear that when I am speaking of abortions as being immoral that I am talking about the 98.5% of abortions which are committed for convenience, or IOW, non-medical reasons. I even said that in reply #136.