OK..I admit..I've been drinking...

[Garnet2727]

I'm not going to go into why I'm drinking, why I'm drunk. If you want to know, pm me. But I just read a thread on another forum and my blood is BOILING.

I cannot STAND blaming soldiers! I cannot stand it! I don't understand global politics. I have my own opinions on Afganistahn and Iraq. I shan't share them here. That is not the point.

The point is I hate...no HATE...people who blame the individual soldier for doing his/her job.

How can people villify the individual soldier? I know soldiers from WW1 forward. Ahhhh..my gentlemen. My vets. MY FRIENDS! BLAH!

Disagree with the actions of the country, I know I do, but to denigrate the men who serve? A pox on ye!

 

[""]

God bless your dedication to the men and women who serve. They serve because it is their job to do so, but the majority of them also serve because they care very much.

Thank you for that post. While I don't applaud your drinking and posting about it, I certainly won't condemn you for that weakness. There have been some occasions in the last few months where I have hurt so much that I could have done the same.

Your post means a lot to me. Thank you.

 

[Nymphalidae]

Which is why we should throw Bush and his cronies in jail for Abu Ghraib. I'm not even joking.

 

[Garnet2727]

God bless your dedication to the men and women who serve. They serve because it is their job to do so, but the majority of them also serve because they care very much.

Thank you for that post. While I don't applaud your drinking and posting about it, I certainly won't condemn you for that weakness. There have been some occasions in the last few months where I have hurt so much that I could have done the same.

Your post means a lot to me. Thank you.

Adiya, thank you so very much. I think you got to the heart of my post, even though you dispprove of my admitted being drunk. And that's really ok. I do understand your view point. And I can see that you understand mine.

But...ok..everything I would say here would be edited out. I know too...TOO...many soldiers who have done their duty. And they have been villified. I don't know where I'm aiming here, but...but..butttttt!

If you set with a vet, if you listen, if you learn...BAH.

IF YOU LISTEN how can you blame that peson?

Colour me drunk.

 

[Garnet2727]

Which is why we should through Bush and his cronies in jail for Abu Ghraib. I'm not even joking.

If you can't try them, let them go. If the evidence is enough to convict them, or even not enough, they all deserve a fair trial. Otherwise, the US, my country, oh mercy, my country, is just evading natural law.


My country, my nation, it shames me, those in charge of my nation have forgotten everything that this country was founded on.

 

[""]

Which is why we should through Bush and his cronies in jail for Abu Ghraib

The behavior exhibited at Abu Ghraib was a personal responsibility of those who behaved irresponsibly. President Bush is not a babysitter. Neither is Albert Gore. If this had occurred under Gore's watch, republicans would have called him responsible, and democrats would have insisted that he wasn't. Independents like myself, would have the sense to realize that the soldiers and their commanders (the ones who give them direct orders, not the one's in Washington DC, or the ones on the other side of Iraq who had nothing to do with it) are responsible.

 

[Garnet2727]

The behavior exhibited at Abu Ghraib was a personal responsibility of those who behaved irresponsibly. President Bush is not a babysitter. Neither is Albert Gore. If this had occurred under Gore's watch, republicans would have called him responsible, and democrats would have insisted that he wasn't. Independents like myself, would have the sense to realize that the soldiers and their commanders (the ones who give them direct orders, not the one's in Washington DC, or the ones on the other side of Iraq who had nothing to do with it) are responsible.

Eh..I think in some ways we agree. OH HORROR! But how do we fix it?

 

[""]

The same way you would fix any crime against another human being. The offender is tried, and if found guilty, they are punished. We can attempt to make some form of restitution to those who were harmed, but then I would have to ask... what about our men and women who were murdered, tortured, etc? Will their families be given some form of restitution?

This is war. Bad things happen during war. We have to do what we can to prevent it from occurring again, and punish those who did the deeds. I think that's all we can do at this point.

 

[Garnet2727]

The same way you would fix any crime against another human being. The offender is tried, and if found guilty, they are punished. We can attempt to make some form of restitution to those who were harmed, but then I would have to ask... what about our men and women who were murdered, tortured, etc? Will their families be given some form of restitution?

This is war. Bad things happen during war. We have to do what we can to prevent it from occurring again, and punish those who did the deeds. I think that's all we can do at this point.

But here's the thing. Those in Abu Gharib (sp?) don't have that recourse. They aren't tried, they are simply warehoused. Is that right?

 

[Blackguard_]

OK..I admit..I've been drinking...

SO Have I, although just a beer. And I must say you type amazingly well for being drunk.

The point is I hate...no HATE...people who blame the individual soldier for doing his/her job.

Well, some of us have this thing called "Just War theory" wherby not every war Georgie Bush's liveried retainers fight is just just becasue they are Georgie Bush's liveried retainers.

How can you not vilify someone prosecuting an unjust war? And if you can't vilify them, then the concept of Just War theory is meaningless since any war they fight is just from the soldiers point of view. What sense does "the war you're fighting is immoral, but it's right for you to fight it" make?

Unless you are a State worshipper putting loyalty to Georgie Bush/the State above morality/God, but that is unconscienable from a Christian perspective.

 

[Garnet2727]

Well, I'm sober now. Sleep is an amazing restorative. I'm a bit surprised at what I wrote last night and even more surprised, in a good way, at the responses. I'm too close to individuals who are serving or who have served in the military to be objective. My husband is a Nam Vet, my father and two of my uncles were WWII vets, another uncle was a Korea vet, my nephew served in Iraq. The gentlemen I referred to in the OP were a group of men that I used to visit in the vet hospital in Arizona who served in WW1, WW2, Korea and Nam. Two dear friends served in Nam. One of my teachers/mentor was a conscientious objector who served as a medic in Nam. My brother-in-law has just been recalled and will likely be going back to Afganistan. My son-in-law just returned from Iraq.

I've sat and listened to all these people. They've shared with me some of their stories. I know that some people do commit atrocities, I know that some individuals do go bad. But on the whole, the people that I know did their best to serve with honor in the most horrible of circumstances.

Blame the politicians. I do. But on the whole, I can't blame those who serve.

 

[scifo]

The people in Abu Grahib and Gitmo are being treated better than those on September 11.

They are alive.

 

[Garnet2727]

The people in Abu Grahib and Gitmo are being treated better than those on September 11.

They are alive.

Bah. Does that make it right? Does that make it moral? Is it OK to hold people without charges, without a chance at justice because we're ticked off? Does the US have any responsibility to take the high road?

 

[levi501]

The people in Abu Grahib and Gitmo are being treated better than those on September 11.

They are alive.

lol.
So people are only entitled to live? forget all other human rights?
Or are you simply asserting that those responsible are being detained in both Gitmo and prisons in Iraq? Any evidence for this?

 

[one love]

I usually get wasted while posting on this board. But I abide by the buffalo theory...