Oh no I bought a old earth apologetics book!

Danoh

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Am looking for advice from christians who have read Hugh Ross' book 'Improbable Planet' and christians who hold Genesis 1 as literal days.

Should I read this book? I thought it was a book about how fine tuned the universe is but it is a book by someone who holds the belief that our universe came into being in billions of years. I was pretty disappointed when I started reading :s i just bought it today. I also just came back from a 'Answer in Genesis' talk which reconfirmed creation in 6 literal days.

Could this book be of any value at all for someone that believes in the words that in six days the earth was created?

Also, if I discard of the book should I sell it or just get rid of it? I don't really want to sell it to someone and perpetuate something that is not true to the word of God :s so disappointed...

See if it goes into what is known as The Gap Theory - the hypothesis that there was a great cataclysmic event between Genesis verse 1 and verse 2. That verse 2 forward is actually describing, not a Six Day Creation, but a Six Day Restoration.

One of its arguments, for example, being these verses' use of the word re-plenish (or restore)...

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

The Gap Theory supposedly explains an Earth much older than the ten thousand year old or so, Six Day Creation.

In other words, as in the Hebrew text, Genesis 1:2's "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." is understood as "BECAME without form, or void."

In short, it can't hurt to read sources you might, or might not agree with.

For even when you end up not agreeing with a thing, you are at least aware of it, and...you can often learn some things often of great use to what you do agree with.

Because as you are sitting there reading, things pop up that result in better clarity on your own position consciously but that you had not even thought on until the very moment you were sitting there reading about them from a different point of view.

Happens to me all the time.

In fact, I know plenty of people who discourage even bothering with an opposing view.

That is their loss. I once found myself with greater clarity consciously on some things in the NT, while discussing the OT, with a Jewish Rabbi, who did not believe in the NT.

Because things came up during that discussion that reminded me of things in the NT that I had been pondering, at some earlier point, many months earlier, before I'd ever met that Rabbi.

Because that is how intuition works.

Where you put things together at an unconscious level (like how you just know that someone is lying to you, but you don't know how you know) - things you are later aware of only as you happen to think on them while reading either an agreeing, or an opposing view.

I'd say read that book. It can't hurt.

Just keep Isaiah 8:20 in mind, throughout, and you'll be fine.
 
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Not_By_Chance

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I just i am undecided about this, because what about the stars? Light that traveled only for 5000 years of distant stars that are millions of light years away can reach us now? Either God 'cheated' or science is upside down somehow or i don't know!
Maybe this article could give you some pointers, although no-one really knows the answers to the mysteries of creation except the One who created it all.
 
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St_Worm2

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Am looking for advice from christians who have read Hugh Ross' book 'Improbable Planet' and christians who hold Genesis 1 as literal days.

Should I read this book? I thought it was a book about how fine tuned the universe is but it is a book by someone who holds the belief that our universe came into being in billions of years. I was pretty disappointed when I started reading :s i just bought it today. I also just came back from a 'Answer in Genesis' talk which reconfirmed creation in 6 literal days.

Could this book be of any value at all for someone that believes in the words that in six days the earth was created?

Also, if I discard of the book should I sell it or just get rid of it? I don't really want to sell it to someone and perpetuate something that is not true to the word of God :s so disappointed...
Ross is a scientist and a captivating author, though he is no theologian. Why not read his book (if you're not going to return it, that is) and see what it says, and then see what others have to say in opposition to his theories? ("Day-Age" OEC is what he principally teaches, if memory serves)

If you go to the AiG website, you will no doubt find the opposing view. There is also this site and what it has to say about Hugh Ross' work: The dubious apologetics of Hugh Ross - creation.com

And if you'd like to hear from other scientists about the Young Earth side of things, there is a well-done feature film that you can buy or rent called, Is Genesis History? Here is the cast of that recent movie/documentary (which does include a theologian and a pastor):

There is much more to be found at the Is Genesis History? website, as they have gone FAR beyond the original film (with additional films, videos, books, study guides, etc). But the feature film is the place to start, and like I said above, you can rent it here, or you can buy it and download it here, or the Blu Ray here. (or you can rent it of buy it from Amazon as well).

It was free on Netflix for a long time, but I do not believe it is there any longer.

Yours and His,
David

Just FYI, here’s an overview of topics explored in the film:

  • Paradigms
  • Created Kinds
  • Fossil Record
  • DNA
  • Transitional Forms
  • Historic Views
  • Evolution
  • Ecosystems
  • Global Flood
  • Starlight
  • Tower of Babel
  • Big Bang
  • Rock Layers
  • Genealogies
  • Isotope Dating
  • Beauty
  • Hebrew Text
  • Dinosaurs
  • Epochs of History
  • Neanderthals
  • Nautiloids
  • Soft Tissue
  • Coal Formation
  • And much more…
 
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Strange Plane

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I take Genesis literally, though I'm uncertain if creation occurred over six literal 23+ hour days or 6,000 years. If IItake the times as 23+ hours, God spent that long resting from His labor. If I take it as a Heavenly day, God spent 1,000 years, resting from His labor.

I suppose the best question I can come up with here is, does evening and morning exist in the third Heaven, where a day is as 1,000 years on Earth? If the answer is no, creation surely occurred in six literal 23+ hour days. If the answer is yes, creation occurred in a 6,000 year period.
 
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Monk Brendan

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Am looking for advice from christians who have read Hugh Ross' book 'Improbable Planet' and christians who hold Genesis 1 as literal days.

Should I read this book? I thought it was a book about how fine tuned the universe is but it is a book by someone who holds the belief that our universe came into being in billions of years. I was pretty disappointed when I started reading :s i just bought it today. I also just came back from a 'Answer in Genesis' talk which reconfirmed creation in 6 literal days.

Could this book be of any value at all for someone that believes in the words that in six days the earth was created?

Also, if I discard of the book should I sell it or just get rid of it? I don't really want to sell it to someone and perpetuate something that is not true to the word of God :s so disappointed...
Eat the meat and spit out the bones.

Does it really hurt you to hear what other people say why they disagree with you?
 
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Halbhh

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I.m.o. the historical accuracy of the Bible is important.
If it all didn't happen, what are the stories worth?
So after doing my 'research' (actually learning about other people's research) i believe the Bible is a history book from Genesis 6 onwards. It's not a timeline without gaps and problems though.
Not 100% sure the flood was global, although there's a strong case for Genesis 10 genealogy accuracy.
It seems to cover all peoples on earth.Naturalistic science can't reconcile with a supernatural history.
Genesis chapters 2 and 3 are to help you learn how to live right now.

What marriage is-- she is like a rib, closer than skin deep. Marriage is a deep bond, bone of my bone.

What faith is in a key way -- that we trust God instead of the messages of the world and the serpent.

To get what you and I need from Genesis, we must truly listen.

With true listening and openness, we let the power of the meanings get past our mere (useless) own understanding, mere intellectual understanding. The words speak to our hearts and souls, if we truly listen.

The effect of true listening is that scripture changes you, inside.
 
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Hieronymus

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Genesis chapters 2 and 3 are to help you learn how to live right now.

What marriage is-- she is like a rib, closer than skin deep. Marriage is a deep bond, bone of my bone.
Oh, i didn't mean before Genesis 6 is irrelevant or useless.
On the contrary.
It's the basis for the whole story.
I'm just not convinced it's a literal account of what happened.
It is the truth though, but probably allegorized, to an extent.

I'm looking forward to the day that we will know when, how and what took place.
I have so many questions. :)
What faith is in a key way -- that we trust God instead of the messages of the world and the serpent.

To get what you and I need from Genesis, we must truly listen.
I got a lot of insight from Micheal Heiser.
He's an ancient languages and Bible scholar, who decided to share his academic knowledge, because he got frustrated with the arrogance of the academia who don't bother with the questions of the "plebs".
There are many parallels with ancient 'myths' to be found, possibly used as a vehicle to convey the Biblical message.
This view can release the pressure to try to fit some of those stories into a literal interpretation.
The message doesn't lose its value that way.
With true listening and openness, we let the power of the meanings get past our mere (useless) own understanding, mere intellectual understanding. The words speak to our hearts and souls, if we truly listen.
Maybe, but certainly not always in my experience.
I mean, the texts are written for the ancient reader to understand.
So it's helpful to know their perspective.

A surprising example:
Women should wear a head covering in the Temple or synagogue. Paul writes this too.
Now in those days, a woman's hair was considered to be a part of the reproductive system.
The theory of that time was that the hair of a woman draws in the seed of the man when having intercourse.
Really weird idea, but that's apparently what they believed.
So a woman's hair had something to do with genitals.
That's why they should be wearing a head cover in God's house.
The habit of wearing head covering could have something to do with genesis 6 too.

The effect of true listening is that scripture changes you, inside.
So people tell me.
I don't have that experience too often.
When i read the Bible it usually raises all kinds of questions to which i don't have an answer.
So i spend more time learning from others who have more knowledge and insight than i have.
 
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miamited

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There is no defined teaching within Christianity regarding the age of the earth. You are free to hold whatever belief or opinion you choose to hold.

Hi HT,

While I absolutely agree that each one is free to hold to whatever they believe to be the truth, there is still that niggling problem of 'what is the truth?'.

There are certainly millions who believe that the truth of spiritual things is found within the pages of the Quaran...but is it the truth? Or Buddhism or Hinduism or any one of several hundred other beliefs as to how we got here and why we're here. But what is the truth? What is the reality of the formation of all that our eyes see throughout the universe?

I can't speak for christianity as a whole, but I do believe that there is a 'defined teaching' found within the Scriptures of the creation of all that is.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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jax5434

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Am looking for advice from christians who have read Hugh Ross' book 'Improbable Planet' and christians who hold Genesis 1 as literal days.

Should I read this book? I thought it was a book about how fine tuned the universe is but it is a book by someone who holds the belief that our universe came into being in billions of years. I was pretty disappointed when I started reading :s i just bought it today. I also just came back from a 'Answer in Genesis' talk which reconfirmed creation in 6 literal days.

Could this book be of any value at all for someone that believes in the words that in six days the earth was created?

Also, if I discard of the book should I sell it or just get rid of it? I don't really want to sell it to someone and perpetuate something that is not true to the word of God :s so disappointed...
By all means read it if you'd like to. One of the great problems in our faith and the world in general is that we surround ourselves only with those with whom we agree.
God Bless
Jax
 
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Am looking for advice from christians who have read Hugh Ross' book 'Improbable Planet' and christians who hold Genesis 1 as literal days.

Should I read this book? I thought it was a book about how fine tuned the universe is but it is a book by someone who holds the belief that our universe came into being in billions of years. I was pretty disappointed when I started reading :s i just bought it today. I also just came back from a 'Answer in Genesis' talk which reconfirmed creation in 6 literal days.

Could this book be of any value at all for someone that believes in the words that in six days the earth was created?

Also, if I discard of the book should I sell it or just get rid of it? I don't really want to sell it to someone and perpetuate something that is not true to the word of God :s so disappointed...

Why not keep it for reference? Could it be the earth is young while the universe is old? I think Ross subscribes to gap theory, and while I hold to six literal days, and historical narrative interpretation of Genesis, I cannot totally rule out everything in gap theory. The biographies in Scripture are selective and not exhaustive for example.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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If your faith is dependent on YEC then I would take care in reading anything that might hurt your faith. I started as a YEC and only after many years of study and discussion did I change and come to believe in theistic evolution. This has not harmed my faith one iota. I fully believe the Gospel and that God created the heavens and the earth, and that He created Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden.


Am looking for advice from christians who have read Hugh Ross' book 'Improbable Planet' and christians who hold Genesis 1 as literal days.

Should I read this book? I thought it was a book about how fine tuned the universe is but it is a book by someone who holds the belief that our universe came into being in billions of years. I was pretty disappointed when I started reading :s i just bought it today. I also just came back from a 'Answer in Genesis' talk which reconfirmed creation in 6 literal days.

Could this book be of any value at all for someone that believes in the words that in six days the earth was created?

Also, if I discard of the book should I sell it or just get rid of it? I don't really want to sell it to someone and perpetuate something that is not true to the word of God :s so disappointed...
 
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HTacianas

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Hi HT,

While I absolutely agree that each one is free to hold to whatever they believe to be the truth, there is still that niggling problem of 'what is the truth?'.

There are certainly millions who believe that the truth of spiritual things is found within the pages of the Quaran...but is it the truth? Or Buddhism or Hinduism or any one of several hundred other beliefs as to how we got here and why we're here. But what is the truth? What is the reality of the formation of all that our eyes see throughout the universe?

I can't speak for christianity as a whole, but I do believe that there is a 'defined teaching' found within the Scriptures of the creation of all that is.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Please note that I did not leave it up to anyone's opinion as to what truth is. We all agree as to the truth of Genesis, that being God created all things. We only disagree on nonessential details.
 
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miamited

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Please note that I did not leave it up to anyone's opinion as to what truth is. We all agree as to the truth of Genesis, that being God created all things. We only disagree on nonessential details.

Hi HT,

I certainly don't mean to be argumentative, but...

Who determines what is found in the Scriptures as 'non-essential details'? When James speaks about controlling our tongue, is that a non-essential? How about when Paul teaches that we should not forsake the gathering of the fellowship...non-essential? Is there a list somewhere as to what is taught in the Scriptures that are the non-essential details?

God has said in His Scriptures that in six days He created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. Is there a place in the index or the footnotes where God has told us that believing that or not is a non-essential detail? I'm just curious. I hear people use this argument quite a lot about this particular teaching of the Scriptures and I've honestly never found anywhere that God claims that some of His words are to be considered non-essential details.

What if, when God asks us to believe, He is asking us to believe all of it. The miracles that couldn't possibly have happened and surely aren't to be believed as they are accounted to us. I mean, come on, the whole earth was covered with water? Yea, right.

When Jesus spoke to his disciples about the day of his Father's judgment and describes those many who are calling out to him, Lord, Lord, he says that they did mighty things in his name. Are these, perhaps, those who thought that all you had to believe was that Jesus died for our sin? But they didn't really believe God.

I'm just asking. Please understand that I'm not picking on your faith. I don't know you from Adam's off ox, but, neither do I want to hold out to people some false hope or false understanding of who God is and what it means to Him when He tells us that only those who believe will be saved. Believe what exactly? I mean, I hear people say that all you have to believe is that Jesus died for our sin, but then when I read of those that Jesus turns away on the day of His Father's judgment, he seems to describe them as people who at least seem to believe that about him.

I'm just asking. Is it possible that when one claiming to be a child of God denies some part of the truth of God, could that be why Jesus never knew them? Because they weren't really one with him and the Father in their faith to be believe God's truth? Wasn't Abraham's righteousness based on his believing God? Jesus hadn't even been made known to him by that time as far as we can tell through the Scriptures, yet God accounted Abraham's righteousness on the fact that he believed God. Jesus said that the words of his Father was truth. Did he mean to infer that didn't apply to God's word that in six days He created the heavens and the earth and all that were in them?

God bless, ted
 
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HTacianas

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Hi HT,

I certainly don't mean to be argumentative, but...

Who determines what is found in the Scriptures as 'non-essential details'? When James speaks about controlling our tongue, is that a non-essential? How about when Paul teaches that we should not forsake the gathering of the fellowship...non-essential? Is there a list somewhere as to what is taught in the Scriptures that are the non-essential details?

God has said in His Scriptures that in six days He created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. Is there a place in the index or the footnotes where God has told us that believing that or not is a non-essential detail? I'm just curious. I hear people use this argument quite a lot about this particular teaching of the Scriptures and I've honestly never found anywhere that God claims that some of His words are to be considered non-essential details.

What if, when God asks us to believe, He is asking us to believe all of it. The miracles that couldn't possibly have happened and surely aren't to be believed as they are accounted to us. I mean, come on, the whole earth was covered with water? Yea, right.

When Jesus spoke to his disciples about the day of his Father's judgment and describes those many who are calling out to him, Lord, Lord, he says that they did mighty things in his name. Are these, perhaps, those who thought that all you had to believe was that Jesus died for our sin? But they didn't really believe God.

I'm just asking. Please understand that I'm not picking on your faith. I don't know you from Adam's off ox, but, neither do I want to hold out to people some false hope or false understanding of who God is and what it means to Him when He tells us that only those who believe will be saved. Believe what exactly? I mean, I hear people say that all you have to believe is that Jesus died for our sin, but then when I read of those that Jesus turns away on the day of His Father's judgment, he seems to describe them as people who at least seem to believe that about him.

I'm just asking. Is it possible that when one claiming to be a child of God denies some part of the truth of God, could that be why Jesus never knew them? Because they weren't really one with him and the Father in their faith to be believe God's truth? Wasn't Abraham's righteousness based on his believing God? Jesus hadn't even been made known to him by that time as far as we can tell through the Scriptures, yet God accounted Abraham's righteousness on the fact that he believed God. Jesus said that the words of his Father was truth. Did he mean to infer that didn't apply to God's word that in six days He created the heavens and the earth and all that were in them?

God bless, ted

If the belief in a literal six day creation was an essential doctrine of Christianity it would already have been established long ago.

As to those who are condemned on the day of Judgement, they are condemned for not feeding the hungry or clothing the naked. That is the plain reading of it.
 
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miamited

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If the belief in a literal six day creation was an essential doctrine of Christianity it would already have been established long ago.

As to those who are condemned on the day of Judgement, they are condemned for not feeding the hungry or clothing the naked. That is the plain reading of it.

Hi HT,

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure that any of that can be supported through the Scriptures, however. I'm not as confident as you that man, in his zeal to define and apply religiosity, gets it right most of the time. All I'm saying is that I believe God's word to be true in all that it reveals to us. The six day creation account is one of those revelations.

We might carefully consider the position of the Jewish 'leadership' in Jesus' day. They thought that they had correctly defined all the 'essential' considerations of what it means to be faithful to God. Jesus seemed to, on at least a couple of instances that are recorded in the Scriptures, not agree with their understanding of 'essential' doctrine. He at one point told them that they chased over all the earth to make one convert and then turned them into a dog of hell worse than themselves. What do you think? Did that ecclesiastical body, that had taken upon themselves the authority to define and determine the 'essential' doctrines necessary for faith in their God, have it right? How do you know, I mean really know, that the doctrinal body of beliefs that you follow, that aren't specifically made clear in the Scriptures, are actually what God asks of His children?

So, my position is that I understand and hear what you're saying, but I'm not necessarily in agreement that we can use the corporate understanding of some earthly ecclesiastical body to be right in all that they decree are the truths of God's words. Maybe they are, and maybe they aren't. According to Jesus, it is the work of the Holy Spirit to convict each of us of sin and righteousness, and at this point, the Holy Spirit has not so convicted me on this specific issue. That believing the six day account of the creation event is a non-essential for the child of God to understand and believe.

For me, I believe God. If He gave a fairly detailed account of just how exactly all things in this realm of existence was created in six literal days; if He further defined each of those days as consisting of an evening and a morning, just as any regular day is today, then I believe that God, knowing that He was having His words written down for us to understand, is trying His best to show that the six days were pretty regular days as to their length. He then causes to be repeated to us at least twice that He made all that exists in all of the earth and the heavens in six days. His Son confirms for us that Adam and Eve were the first of the human race and alludes that they existed at the beginning of the creation of this realm. I find that to be fairly compelling evidence that this account of God's word regarding the creation event is as true as the rest of God's word.

I ask myself, for what purpose would God close out each day of the creation event as consisting of an evening and a morning. He could just as easily have just said that such and such happened and thus ended the first day. Then some other things happened and that ended the second day. But God, being, I believe, wiser than you or I will ever be and knowing the end from the beginning, knew that a time would come that man would not believe what He had written about these things. It is my belief that God purposefully caused to be written that each day consisted of an evening and a morning merely to give further proof that He really did create this realm in which we live, everything in all of the heavens and the earth, in six days. Six days, of which each one, consisted of one evening and one morning. For me, there appears to have been a purpose for God to close out the account of each day as he specifically did. To provide His children with a supporting proof, against the world that He knew was generally going to turn away from His truth. That when the world came up against His children and mocked and derided them for even thinking to believe that this preposterous account of a six day creation event could possibly be true, He caused to be written, this short little descriptive phrase, that would support that those days were pretty much like any of our present days.

They weren't thousand or million or billion year long 'days'. They were merely six pretty normal days in their length and the miraculous and all powerful God, who has also declared that the heavens declare the glory of Him who sits upon the throne, in which God created a 'realm', if you will, of existence for a creature that He created to love and be loved. We live in a created realm of existence that was created by a God with a plan and a purpose. He knew, that just like the angelic realm, there would be those who would love Him if He were to make His love and mercy known to them. That the ultimate end of both the angelic realm of His creating and the physical realm in which we live, is that all those who chose to love Him and establish His authority in their lives as the one overarching authority in their lives, would be given the right to live eternally with Him. That all those of both men and angels who refused His love and authority, would not. He knew all of that on the day that He brought light into this realm and spoke the first command to create the earth.

That's the God I know, despite the teachings of any ecclesiastical body that may tell me otherwise. Or try to define what it means to be a faithful servant of God apart from what God has said in His truth to me.

Here are the words of Jesus to his disciples as best we know them to have been:
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I'm interested in your pointing out to me where you find that these words are merely referring only to those who didn't feed or clothe the poor. He speaks previously to this of our not judging
righteously. He speaks of our doing good to others in the same fashion that we would do good to ourselves. He speaks of our entering the kingdom of God through the narrow gate and explains that broad is the other gate to destruction and 'many' would go that way. He speaks of true and false prophets and disciples. He speaks of giving to the needy and how we should practice prayer and fasting. He speaks of storing up our treasures in heaven and not worrying from day to day. All of these things Jesus teaches immediately prior to explaining about the reality of the day of his Father's judgment upon mankind. So, I'm curious where you find some Scriptural proof that this explanation of those that Jesus turns away as only being because they didn't feed or clothe others.


God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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HTacianas

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Hi HT,

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure that any of that can be supported through the Scriptures, however. I'm not as confident as you that man, in his zeal to define and apply religiosity, gets it right most of the time. All I'm saying is that I believe God's word to be true in all that it reveals to us. The six day creation account is one of those revelations.

We might carefully consider the position of the Jewish 'leadership' in Jesus' day. They thought that they had correctly defined all the 'essential' considerations of what it means to be faithful to God. Jesus seemed to, on at least a couple of instances that are recorded in the Scriptures, not agree with their understanding of 'essential' doctrine. He at one point told them that they chased over all the earth to make one convert and then turned them into a dog of hell worse than themselves. What do you think? Did that ecclesiastical body, that had taken upon themselves the authority to define and determine the 'essential' doctrines necessary for faith in their God, have it right? How do you know, I mean really know, that the doctrinal body of beliefs that you follow, that aren't specifically made clear in the Scriptures, are actually what God asks of His children?

So, my position is that I understand and hear what you're saying, but I'm not necessarily in agreement that we can use the corporate understanding of some earthly ecclesiastical body to be right in all that they decree are the truths of God's words. Maybe they are, and maybe they aren't. According to Jesus, it is the work of the Holy Spirit to convict each of us of sin and righteousness, and at this point, the Holy Spirit has not so convicted me on this specific issue. That believing the six day account of the creation event is a non-essential for the child of God to understand and believe.

For me, I believe God. If He gave a fairly detailed account of just how exactly all things in this realm of existence was created in six literal days; if He further defined each of those days as consisting of an evening and a morning, just as any regular day is today, then I believe that God, knowing that He was having His words written down for us to understand, is trying His best to show that the six days were pretty regular days as to their length. He then causes to be repeated to us at least twice that He made all that exists in all of the earth and the heavens in six days. His Son confirms for us that Adam and Eve were the first of the human race and alludes that they existed at the beginning of the creation of this realm. I find that to be fairly compelling evidence that this account of God's word regarding the creation event is as true as the rest of God's word.

I ask myself, for what purpose would God close out each day of the creation event as consisting of an evening and a morning. He could just as easily have just said that such and such happened and thus ended the first day. Then some other things happened and that ended the second day. But God, being, I believe, wiser than you or I will ever be and knowing the end from the beginning, knew that a time would come that man would not believe what He had written about these things. It is my belief that God purposefully caused to be written that each day consisted of an evening and a morning merely to give further proof that He really did create this realm in which we live, everything in all of the heavens and the earth, in six days. Six days, of which each one, consisted of one evening and one morning. For me, there appears to have been a purpose for God to close out the account of each day as he specifically did. To provide His children with a supporting proof, against the world that He knew was generally going to turn away from His truth. That when the world came up against His children and mocked and derided them for even thinking to believe that this preposterous account of a six day creation event could possibly be true, He caused to be written, this short little descriptive phrase, that would support that those days were pretty much like any of our present days.

They weren't thousand or million or billion year long 'days'. They were merely six pretty normal days in their length and the miraculous and all powerful God, who has also declared that the heavens declare the glory of Him who sits upon the throne, in which God created a 'realm', if you will, of existence for a creature that He created to love and be loved. We live in a created realm of existence that was created by a God with a plan and a purpose. He knew, that just like the angelic realm, there would be those who would love Him if He were to make His love and mercy known to them. That the ultimate end of both the angelic realm of His creating and the physical realm in which we live, is that all those who chose to love Him and establish His authority in their lives as the one overarching authority in their lives, would be given the right to live eternally with Him. That all those of both men and angels who refused His love and authority, would not. He knew all of that on the day that He brought light into this realm and spoke the first command to create the earth.

That's the God I know, despite the teachings of any ecclesiastical body that may tell me otherwise. Or try to define what it means to be a faithful servant of God apart from what God has said in His truth to me.

Here are the words of Jesus to his disciples as best we know them to have been:
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I'm interested in your pointing out to me where you find that these words are merely referring only to those who didn't feed or clothe the poor. He speaks previously to this of our not judging
righteously. He speaks of our doing good to others in the same fashion that we would do good to ourselves. He speaks of our entering the kingdom of God through the narrow gate and explains that broad is the other gate to destruction and 'many' would go that way. He speaks of true and false prophets and disciples. He speaks of giving to the needy and how we should practice prayer and fasting. He speaks of storing up our treasures in heaven and not worrying from day to day. All of these things Jesus teaches immediately prior to explaining about the reality of the day of his Father's judgment upon mankind. So, I'm curious where you find some Scriptural proof that this explanation of those that Jesus turns away as only being because they didn't feed or clothe others.


God bless,
In Christ, ted

As to those who are condemned and for what reasons please see Matthew 25.

On Ecclesiastical authority, Jesus said to his apostles:

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Mat 18:19 - “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven.

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Mat 18:20 - “For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

That apostolic authority was first exercised by the Council of Jerusalem described in Acts 15. Apostolic authority is handed down to the successors to the Apostles, meaning the Ecclesiastical authority of today is apostolic in origin.

While I know that your beliefs are certainly sincere, personal interpretation of scripture is not binding on any individual. Articles of faith within Christianity are however binding and are apostolic in origin. And while it is an article of faith that God created all things, the details of creation are not.
 
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Ted
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Hi HT,

Truthfully the Scriptures are not binding on any individual. It is a free will choice that God has asked of us. He has made Himself known and what His desires for us are and has then left it up to each one of us to come into relationship with Him through His Son. Whosoever will.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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