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Oh boy - I wondered what this whole Mar A Lago thing was about

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by HTacianas, Aug 10, 2022.

  1. JosephZ

    JosephZ Well-Known Member

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    And after the government went through Mar a Lago in June, Trump's attorney certified that all classified material was returned to the government and there was no more classified material at Mar a Lago. That turned out to be a lie as several boxes of classified material was removed from Mar a Lago this past week. The DOJ recently learned that classified material was still at Mar a Lago and there was also video surveillance of people going in and out of the storage room that Trump was told to put a lock on. This is why such drastic action was taken.

    The warrant shows that documents classified/TS/SCI were removed from Mar a Lago. These types of documents are meant to be viewed in a secure government facility and are not to be removed from such a facility.

    The documents found in Trump's possession were still marked classified which shows without doubt that Trump didn't declassify them prior to leaving office. If he had, the original classification designation would have been marked through and the word declassified would have been stamped on it along with the date it was declassified and the individual or agency who declassified it. There would also be a record of each of these declassified documents in a database.

    This would be the case even if the President decided to unilaterally declassify the documents.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
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  2. Belk

    Belk Senior Member Supporter

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    Spare me the fallacy. Hunter and the president have nothing to do with Trump not being allowed to keep nuclear secrets.
     
  3. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    As I've mentioned before from my own direct experience, yes, presidents can declassify material with verbal instructions, but they must give those verbal instructions so that the materials can then be declassified according to regulations.

    As someone else has already mentioned, there are multiple copies of most documents, and all of them must be physically declassified--that is, all the markings in every document and every related document must be changed paragraph by paragraph.

    It doesn't happen by a president just saying, "Everything I take with me is unclassified" when he hasn't even told anyone what he took with him.

    Moreover, and this is the crux in this particular issue: The president cannot declassify everything. He can only declassify what he (that is, the Executive Branch) originally classified. The president cannot declassify what the Congress has classified legislatively.

    These nuclear documents were originally classified by Congressional legislation...the president has no power to declassify them.
     
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  4. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    That's pretty close to the actual process. It doesn't have to go quite as high as the president, but it has to pretty high up the chain...CIA officer Smith can't just call up FBI Special Agent Jones and tell him that a terrorist attack is about to happen.
     
  5. Ponderous Curmudgeon

    Ponderous Curmudgeon Well-Known Member

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    And when none of this happens, what do you say then?
     
  6. Valletta

    Valletta Well-Known Member

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    The president is not subject to your rules. The president has the authority whether you like it or not. Again, the nuclear stuff is a hoax. The Hunter Biden laptop is real.
     
  7. Valletta

    Valletta Well-Known Member

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  8. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    This is called putting your fingers in your ears and going "La-la-la-la."
     
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  9. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Cool....explain the 3rd party rule for interagency disclosure, what conditions need to be met, and why.

    Plain terms will do fine. I don't want some copy and pasted rule you dug up. Just explain it as you understand it.
     
  10. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Were the documents regarding nuclear secrets or something similar?
     
  11. Yttrium

    Yttrium Independent Centrist

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    Dude, that's the Privacy Act. That has nothing to do with declassifying classified information. Have you ever even seen a document with classified markings? If not, why are you trying to make some kind of argument here? And you're answering a question with a question, which is bad form.
     
  12. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Yeah....and the Executive Branch is most of the federal government.


    I'm not entirely sure what that would be.

    So we know for certain that Trump took nuclear secrets?
     
  13. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    I'll say it again in case you forgot....3rd party rule.

    This is basic disclosure between agencies under certain circumstances.

    If you were under the federal government for 20 years, dealing with classified information, you'd know it.

    Just give me the basics of how it works, who you would seek permission from under what circumstances, etc.

    I don't need the whole thing word for word. I don't know how long ago you retired/quit/changed jobs.
     
  14. Yttrium

    Yttrium Independent Centrist

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    The Privacy Act has nothing to do with classified information. You might as well be asking me to cite OSHA regulations, which also have nothing to do with the subject.

    Tell you what, Ana, considering your long history of similar arguments, I'm just going to put you back on my ignore list.
     
  15. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    Its all a gigantic hoax. All hoax. Even Mar-a-Lago is just a grotesque baroque fabrication designed to impugn the former presidents good taste.
     
  16. JosephZ

    JosephZ Well-Known Member

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    The President does have the authority to declassify material, not all material, those which relate to nuclear issues would be one example. That being said, a President CAN NOT simply declassify material with verbal instructions alone as you claimed in an earlier post. There is still a process the President must follow, and one of the requirements is that the documents are properly marked. A declassified document will have the original classification marked out with a single line. It will be stamped, and identify the person or agency authorizing the declassification and the date it was declassified.
    declassified2.jpg

    Below are a couple of examples of documents that Trump declassified during his presidency.
    declassified.jpg
    The two documents in this example were properly marked. The documents found at Mar a Lago were not labeled this way which means they remained classified regardless of what Trump, his attorneys, or right-wing media tells you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2022
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  17. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    "3rd party rule" doesn't refer to the Privacy Act. You're getting links to the Privacy Act because you have to Google "3rd Party Rule" because you have no idea what it refers to.

    I told you I didn't want a perfect definition....I would have accepted it from memory.

    You didn't work in the federal government for 20 years....at least not with classified information.

    I imagine that would be best for you.
     
  18. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Well....some nuclear issues, sure. Others....I don't know.

    For example, can he declassify a document that describes in detail the process of creating a nuclear weapon? No....I doubt it.

    Can he declassify certain information about nuclear deployment and effectiveness? Eh....probably not.

    Can he declassify a document from the State Department discussing nuclear deals with Iran or another foreign nation? Almost certainly.
     
  19. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    You mean you can't just shout "declassified!"? Michael scott would be upset.
     
  20. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    I was simply stating the facts about the case - facts that somehow seem to cause certain groups of people to get very upset that those facts exist and are mentioned.
     
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