Officer shoots, kills armed security guard outside south suburban bar

[disciple Clint]

Strangely I have never seen anyone who calls for facts rejoin a thread after a few weeks or months, when everything is known, to finally debate the act with all facts at hand.

It's almost like the call for facts is a debate tactic to stall a discussion until it is forgotten.

This will not likely be the last thread on this subject,so just follow them

 

[iluvatar5150]

We need to hold off until at least the facts are known. History in several cases indicates that there is a tendency for people to act out and then find out later that they were wrong because they failed to get the facts before they jumped to the conclusion that the police acted improperly.

Wait... Are we talking about cops who shoot too quickly without verifying the identity of their targets or people who condemn cops who shoot too quickly without verifying the identity of their targets?

 

[disciple Clint]

Wait... Are we talking about cops who shoot too quickly without verifying the identity of their targets or people who condemn cops who shoot too quickly without verifying the identity of their targets?

Excuse me sir may I see your identification and could we get to know each other, oh there is no problem sir I am responding to a report of a shooting and you have a gun pointed at someone. I just need to verify your identity and figure out if you are a law abiding citizen before I make that instantaneous decision of what to do before you have a chance to pull that trigger.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Strangely I have never seen anyone who calls for facts rejoin a thread after a few weeks or months, when everything is known, to finally debate the act with all facts at hand.

It's almost like the call for facts is a debate tactic to stall a discussion until it is forgotten.

You know it's a debate tactic when what is presented is either common knowledge or common sense.

Supporting facts, once presented, are often ignored, or countered with a different set of facts.

 

[Nithavela]

You know it's a debate tactic when what is presented is either common knowledge or common sense.

Supporting facts, once presented, are often ignored, or countered with a different set of facts.

I think the word you are looking for is alternative.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Excuse me sir may I see your identification and could we get to know each other, oh there is no problem sir I am responding to a report of a shooting and you have a gun pointed at someone. I just need to verify your identity and figure out if you are a law abiding citizen before I make that instantaneous decision of what to do before you have a chance to pull that trigger.

This particular officer was responding in assistance of another department, at a venue that would conceivably have its own security, where undercover/off-duty officers could be in the area, and in a state where citizens are allowed to carry weapons. There are a number of situations in which the person with the gun could be a good guy who arrived before he did. So yes, I think a little caution is warranted. Unless you just want lazy, trigger-happy cops running around.

 

[LoAmmi]

This particular officer was responding in assistance of another department, at a venue that would conceivably have its own security, where undercover/off-duty officers could be in the area, and in a state where citizens are allowed to carry weapons. There are a number of situations in which the person with the gun could be a good guy who arrived before he did. So yes, I think a little caution is warranted. Unless you just want lazy, trigger-happy cops running around.

People have asked me before if I think it's fair that a police officer has to take time to try to assess the situation, potentially putting their lives in danger. I say yes. I know it's harsh, but yes. If you cannot handle doing that, you should not be a police officer.

 

[iluvatar5150]

People have asked me before if I think it's fair that a police officer has to take time to try to assess the situation, potentially putting their lives in danger. I say yes. I know it's harsh, but yes. If you cannot handle doing that, you should not be a police officer.

Exactly. The rules of engagement for officers are lower here than they are for our soldiers deployed in war zones.

 

[tulc]

what may have happened? Officer rolls up, sees one guy kneeling with his gun pointing at another guy, the guy kneeling sees the officer and starts to back away from the situation, raises his gun to take it off the guy he's on, officer sees a gun in motion, shoots, like I suspect he's been trained to do, and now a good man's dead and an officer is responsible for killing him.
tulc(just a thought)

 

[Nithavela]

what may have happened? Officer rolls up, sees one guy kneeling with his gun pointing at another guy, the guy kneeling sees the officer and starts to back away from the situation, raises his gun to take it off the guy he's on, officer sees a gun in motion, shoots, like I suspect he's been trained to do, and now a good man's dead and an officer is responsible for killing him.
tulc(just a thought)

Who had the bright idea of training policemen to shoot to kill, anyway?

 

[Goonie]

Who had the bright idea of training policemen to shoot to kill, anyway?

They are trained to shoot to stop, centre mass, which in the real world is shoot to kill. You shoot someone in the extremities you are more likely to miss or fail to stop them.

 

[tulc]

Who had the bright idea of training policemen to shoot to kill, anyway?

What's needed is more knowing when then how. If they start shooting they really should shoot to kill, the problem is most police have only been given training in using a "hammer" (guns) and if your only tool is a hammer? then every problem they face starts to look like a "nail". What's needed is more training in when not to use their gun.
tulc(US Police have killed 841 people so far in 2018 https://www.washingtonpost.com/ )

 

[OldWiseGuy]

They are trained to shoot to stop, centre mass, which in the real world is shoot to kill. You shoot someone in the extremities you are more likely to miss or fail to stop them.

I suggest a SUPER, "super soaker" loaded with pepper spray capable of long distance accuracy.

 

[USincognito]

We need to hold off until at least the facts are known. History in several cases indicates that there is a tendency for people to act out and then find out later that they were wrong because they failed to get the facts before they jumped to the conclusion that the police acted improperly.

Indeed the black security guard who wasn't shooting, had collared the perp and that people were yelling he was security had to have done something to force the officer to shoot him to death.

 

[USincognito]

This particular officer was responding in assistance of another department, at a venue that would conceivably have its own security, where undercover/off-duty officers could be in the area, and in a state where citizens are allowed to carry weapons. There are a number of situations in which the person with the gun could be a good guy who arrived before he did. So yes, I think a little caution is warranted. Unless you just want lazy, trigger-happy cops running around.

Oh come now. Your facts are going to destroy the Officer Friendly doing a traffic stop of a white stock broker in a new Mercedes narrative. No reason to contradict that with, "Hands up {bleeeeeeeeep}" {Pow!}.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Strangely I have never seen anyone who calls for facts rejoin a thread after a few weeks or months, when everything is known, to finally debate the act with all facts at hand.

That's a fair point. On a similar note, I've never seen those accusing cops of misdeeds before the facts are in...come back once an investigation clears them and admit they were wrong and just spreading hatred towards cops.

It's almost like the call for facts is a debate tactic to stall a discussion until it is forgotten.

Or they genuinely understand that first reports of this type tend to be geared towards generating outrage...and often the truth is less biased.

You know...either or lol.

 

[Nithavela]

That's a fair point. On a similar note, I've never seen those accusing cops of misdeeds before the facts are in...come back once an investigation clears them and admit they were wrong and just spreading hatred towards cops.



Or they genuinely understand that first reports of this type tend to be geared towards generating outrage...and often the truth is less biased.

You know...either or lol.

Obviously the police is always justified and never at fault.

 

[Hank77]

Officer shoots, kills armed security guard outside south suburban bar

Found a little more about what may have happened.

One woman who saw what happened said the officer was running out from the bar. She asked CBS 2 not to show her face on camera.


“You hear the crowd yelling and screaming, but when he comes out of that door with that gun up, it’s just pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop,” she said. “The other officers were out here. They know him. They seen him, and once the police actually shot him, everybody started screaming. The officers started screaming, ‘He’s one of us. He’s security.’”
Family Files Federal Lawsuit After Police Officer Kills Security Guard While Responding To Bar Shooting

 

[Nithavela]

Found a little more about what may have happened.

One woman who saw what happened said the officer was running out from the bar. She asked CBS 2 not to show her face on camera.


“You hear the crowd yelling and screaming, but when he comes out of that door with that gun up, it’s just pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop,” she said. “The other officers were out here. They know him. They seen him, and once the police actually shot him, everybody started screaming. The officers started screaming, ‘He’s one of us. He’s security.’”
Family Files Federal Lawsuit After Police Officer Kills Security Guard While Responding To Bar Shooting

Shoot first, ask questions later. Thought that only happened in cowboy flicks. Maybe that cop thought he was in one of them.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Obviously the police is always justified and never at fault.

Is that what you got from my post?