Offensive spiritual gifts

[freedominlight]

My question is do offensive spiritual gifts still exist today? As in the case of Elijah who called down fire, Elisha who called on bears and Samson with super strength.

God given authority to smite evil. We live in a world full of violence, pain and suffering. Many of us have been sheltered from it but it's nevertheless prevalent.

I'm aware that God says "vengeance is mine" but that didn't seem to be an issue in the past. The amount of evil activity on the planet is overwhelming, with a consistent undertone of fear and helplessness against it.

As though our best ability as Christians is to cope with it all. Should we feel defenceless against man? Should physical weapons constantly prevail against us?

I'm not suggesting that these gifts would be loosed lightly but in the same way that God has given satan the power and authority to torment us unto death, why then must we remain unarmed? At the mercy of men and demons.


Does the power of prayer not apply to bombs and bullets? Are knives and knuckles immune? It seems awfully lopsided in a world that thrives on war, to have no demonstratable defensive or offensive answer.

 

[RDKirk]

The three main passages describing the spiritual gifts are Romans 12:6-8; 1 Corinthians 12:4-11; and 1 Corinthians 12:28. None of them discusses "offensive" spiritual gifts.

This is what happened when it was suggested by the disciples that they "call down fire" on someone:

And Jesus sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him;but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem.

When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?"

But Jesus turned and rebuked them, saying, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of." -- Luke 9

As though our best ability as Christians is to cope with it all. Should we feel defenceless against man? Should physical weapons constantly prevail against us?

Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. -- John 15

Jesus was crucified.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Sooo I am not entirely sure what gifts you would consider "offensive" and my next question is this, and more importantly:

If God gives a gift, how can it be offensive?

The mere implication of such represents the issue is with the one who is offended and not the one giving the gift, or even receiving/operating in the gift.

 

[RDKirk]

Sooo I am not entirely sure what gifts you would consider "offensive" and my next question is this, and more importantly:

If God gives a gift, how can it be offensive?

The mere implication of such represents the issue is with the one who is offended and not the one giving the gift, or even receiving/operating in the gift.

His example of an "offensive" gift was calling down fire on someone.

But Jesus had already dealt specifically with calling down fire.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Ok...

I would still like to know how God can give anything that is offensive.

 

[timewerx]

My question is do offensive spiritual gifts still exist today? As in the case of Elijah who called down fire, Elisha who called on bears and Samson with super strength.

Just to let you know the truth, yes.

However, I cannot indulge you with more details.

 

[timewerx]

Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. -- John 15

Jesus was crucified.

Yes but it doesn't mean doing absolutely nothing about persecution.

Jesus was on a special "mission" that's why He didn't do anything. What James said in James 4:7 is actually a "forceful opposition against evil" not just evil spirits when taken in the Greek translation.

 

[Sanoy]

I have spoken with a forum poster who got himself into a situation with a Gang. He was shot in the shoulder and prayed and an Angel strengthened him and made him really strong, fast, and able to land from a high fall. It was a long time ago so I can't relay the details but it was something like breaking free, disarming running, and jumping out a window. It was all defensive.

I know what you mean though...the world could use someone like Samson or Elijah. But is there anyone left in the world that is like Samson or Elijah?

 

[RDKirk]

Yes but it doesn't mean doing absolutely nothing about persecution.

Jesus was on a special "mission" that's why He didn't do anything. What James said in James 4:7 is actually a "forceful opposition against evil" not just evil spirits when taken in the Greek translation.

As the Body of Christ, the church is on precisely the same mission as Jesus. Jesus came and made disciples, He commanded His Body to continue making disciples.

With regard to a "forceful opposition against evil:"

For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens. -- Ephesians 6

We can use spiritual gifts against spiritual enemies.

But with regard to human enemies:

But I tell you, don’t resist an evildoer. On the contrary, if anyone slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. -- Matthew 5

But If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For in so doing you will be heaping fiery coals on his head. -- Romans 12

 

[freedominlight]

As the Body of Christ, the church is on precisely the same mission as Jesus. Jesus came and made disciples, He commanded His Body to continue making disciples.

With regard to a "forceful opposition against evil:"

For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens. -- Ephesians 6

We can use spiritual gifts against spiritual enemies.

But with regard to human enemies:

But I tell you, don’t resist an evildoer. On the contrary, if anyone slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. -- Matthew 5

But If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For in so doing you will be heaping fiery coals on his head. -- Romans 12

This is less about ourselves and more about protecting others. In the same way that we unquestionably pray for someone's healing but become suddenly powerless to stop a human (perhaps oppressed or possessed) hurting them. I'd wager that most people here have never even witnessed brutal violence or death to a child.

In the same way that children are the weakest and most vulnerable, they nevertheless fall victim to the demonic forces of this world.

If God is willing to give those who aren't his sons and daughters power to steal, kill and destroy, how much more should he give his own.

Does the fact that principalities and powers are ultimately behind the evil mean the human vessel they are working through is untouchable? If exorcising demons out of someone who is being violent can have an immediate impact, even rendering them unconscious, it would be good.

 

[freedominlight]

The three main passages describing the spiritual gifts are Romans 12:6-8; 1 Corinthians 12:4-11; and 1 Corinthians 12:28. None of them discusses "offensive" spiritual gifts.

This is what happened when it was suggested by the disciples that they "call down fire" on someone:

And Jesus sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him;but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem.

When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?"

But Jesus turned and rebuked them, saying, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of." -- Luke 9



Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. -- John 15

Jesus was crucified.

Like I said before, less about our own suffering and more about stopping someone else's. Jesus was crucified but that doesn't mean we should have to watch the weak and defenceless likewise be crucified. Would Jesus tell you to turn the other cheek if someone invaded your home and threatened your family?

 

[freedominlight]

I have spoken with a forum poster who got himself into a situation with a Gang. He was shot in the shoulder and prayed and an Angel strengthened him and made him really strong, fast, and able to land from a high fall. It was a long time ago so I can't relay the details but it was something like breaking free, disarming running, and jumping out a window. It was all defensive.

I know what you mean though...the world could use someone like Samson or Elijah. But is there anyone left in the world that is like Samson or Elijah?

This is something of interest. Angels are a different race and some are classed as warriors. I think it would be great if angels can aid Christians at Gods discretion. I don't doubt that demons aid evil everyday.

 

[freedominlight]

Ok...

I would still like to know how God can give anything that is offensive.

I think it would be fair and just for God to give offensive gifts. Not necessarily to everyone all the time but at His discretion as He did in the past.

It's the authority to forcibly stop or destroy evil. Which is of an abundance in this world.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I think it would be fair and just for God to give offensive gifts. Not necessarily to everyone all the time but at His discretion as He did in the past.

It's the authority to forcibly stop or destroy evil. Which is of an abundance in this world.

Well without a doubt God has told people before to do some things that were rather questionable. I just don't see how a gift God gives can be considered offensive in itself. Sure people might take offense to it, but the one receiving said gift should embrace it as God's grace

 

[RDKirk]

If God is willing to give those who aren't his sons and daughters power to steal, kill and destroy, how much more should he give his own.

Are you serious?

Is this a Poe?

 

[timewerx]

As the Body of Christ, the church is on precisely the same mission as Jesus. Jesus came and made disciples, He commanded His Body to continue making disciples.

In the mean time yes and of course, we all have our roles to fulfill.

The last days gives us a different picture however. Prophecies in the Revelation and some in the Old Testament, there are people that will be given supernatural powers to subdue or even destroy their enemies.

It's a rare gift I guess we all have our roles to fulfill.

 

[tturt]

posted: If exorcising demons out of someone who is being violent can have an immediate impact, even rendering them unconscious, it would be good.

I wouldn't make them worse - a lot worse.
"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45.

 

[freedominlight]

Are you serious?

Is this a Poe?

Completely serious. Where do demons and the devil derive their power and authority from? God. They abuse every spiritual gift they were granted. All of which negatively impact humanity and profits those who serve the devil. If God is still so generous and merciful with those who are in rebellion, how much more generous would he be with those that seek to do good.

 

[RDKirk]

Completely serious. Where do demons and the devil derive their power and authority from? God. They abuse every spiritual gift they were granted. All of which negatively impact humanity and profits those who serve the devil. If God is still so generous and merciful with those who are in rebellion, how much more generous would he be with those that seek to do good.

Because if we used the methods of demons, we would be demons.

Those simply aren't the methods authorized to believers. Period. The mission of the Body of Christ--the goal of the Body of Christ--is to reach those who have been enabled by the Father to come to Christ. The weapons authorized for our warfare will be ultimately superior because we have a different mission from that of demons.

As I've already quoted:

And he turned and he rebuked them and he said, “You do not know of which Spirit you are.”

 

[freedominlight]

Because if we used the methods of demons, we would be demons.

Those simply aren't the methods authorized to believers. Period. The mission of the Body of Christ--the goal of the Body of Christ--is to reach those who have been enabled by the Father to come to Christ. The weapons authorized for our warfare will be ultimately superior because we have a different mission from that of demons.

As I've already quoted:

And he turned and he rebuked them and he said, “You do not know of which Spirit you are.”

Demons torment mankind. That isn't a method that I'm suggesting. Angels have similar gifts to demons which are used for good. Their good use of gifts are never brought into question. Salvation is the ultimate victory over evil but that shouldn't mean that there are no offensive gifts to fight and defend against evil, man or demon. This life has countless weak and helpless victims, I'm not convinced God desires to watch them suffer at the mercy of evil, without any hope.