Offence

[Carl Emerson]

Jesus offended many. Jesus was sinless.

Sinners were offended.

Our faith is offensive to sinners.

The offended cry foul when offended, they demand immunity from offence.

Thus they demand our faith is silenced. They press for our confession to be hate speech.

****** DISUSS *****

 

[Barnabas2]

Jesus offended many. Jesus was sinless.

Sinners were offended.

Our faith is offensive to sinners.

The offended cry foul when offended, they demand immunity from offence.

Thus they demand our faith is silenced. They press for our confession to be hate speech.

****** DISUSS *****

It's important to be well instructed when you become a believer. It's not a popularity profession! Surprisingly for some, becoming a Christian may not solve all your problems, indeed they may increase.
Jesus said, "Don't be surprised if men hate you, they hated Me before they hated you". "I send you forth as sheep amongst wolves". "They shall deliver you up before the authorities and if they kill you they think they are doing God's service". Etc etc. Obviously we are not to act in such a way by word or deed which would encourage hate. We should be motivated and seek to act and speak in love as our Saviour did. However, persecution is inevitable if we are true believers.

Never forget. The world is not neutral. All that is in the world is not of the Father. Satan is styled the god of this world. He rules in the hearts and minds of all who are outside of Christ. He hates the image of Christ in every believer, hence his venom expressed against them. Men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil. The light exposes the darkness and men prefer their sin to be covered up. When a believer and the world meet there is a collision. Light verses darkness. Truth verses error. Sadly, like Cain and Able of old the Cains of this world would rather silence, kill if necessary, the Abels of this world rather than hear and obey the truth as it is in Jesus. See what the cults and false religions of this world are doing to the people of God right now!

However, men and women of God arise, let your light shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in Heaven. Don't be intimidated. Who knows, but that with the help and blessing of God you may turn a sinner from the error of their ways to a living faith in Christ and eternal life. Go for it!

 

[Neogaia777]

Jesus offended many. Jesus was sinless.

Sinners were offended.

Our faith is offensive to sinners.

The offended cry foul when offended, they demand immunity from offence.

Thus they demand our faith is silenced. They press for our confession to be hate speech.

****** DISUSS *****

We might be constricted to try our best to do it without "hate speech", (or hateful actions or attitudes) but, yeah, I get what your saying, near the end Jesus says their will come a time when no man can work, so...

God Bless!

 

[bèlla]

Most people aren’t honestly concerned about us. I was enjoying my life and never had a passing thought about believers. And that is true for most. Negative encounters are the exception of course.

Jesus was God incarnate. You can never offend in the manner He did. His holiness caused offense. That is rarely true in our case. It is usually something we’ve said or done and justified in our mind.

Love and kindness go a long way at mitigating offense. As does prayer. If we did more of the latter before we spoke we’d have more peaceful encounters and a greater effect overall.

 

[Anguspure]

Jesus offended many. Jesus was sinless.

Sinners were offended.

Our faith is offensive to sinners.

The offended cry foul when offended, they demand immunity from offence.

Thus they demand our faith is silenced. They press for our confession to be hate speech.

****** DISUSS *****

The issue I have experienced is that although it is true that our faith causes offence simply because of Jesus, it seems very easy for many to present legitimate reasons for the offence.

For example, of the few open believers I have encountered at sea, one man in a person of authority, was a terrible person to his crew and if I had ever thought this was because of the offence of the Cross that thought was dashed by what I know of him when he sailed on a Christian ship. This reputation then carried on to anybody within a whole industry that professed belief in Christ, that they were "one of them".

Many of the other guys I have sailed with over the years have had awful experiences at the hands of authoritarian religious institutions and not just because of the authoritarian nature but because they were actually abusive, again the reputation of these institutions is spread through the whole community and because these people are not religious in anyway they do not know the difference between good and bad religion. So the reputation of Christ is tarnished.

One final example, just because it sticks with me, is when a colleague of mine found himself broken down on the front lawn of a Church building and somebody came out demanding that he remove himself and his car. When he explained that he was broken down and needed a hand this person called the authorities on him. You can guess what his response to this religious git and all who were part with him was, and once again this story of legitimate offence is spread far and wide so that the name of YHWH is maligned.

I really don't think it is any wonder that people are antagonistic towards a group of people who hold themselves out as something special (the children of the God of Love no less) when so many of us fail even to live up to the good standards of sinful people. Trying to tell them that the person expressing Christ and His Spirit would only be Loving and not like these examples simply does not wash and sounds a little like the old "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

Further to this the damage that is done by even one small act of indifference or unkindness is such that it becomes extremely difficult to win the territory back. I for one do not speak of Christ openly in my work place and although I am often caught in the religious act (listening to certain music, reading certain things etc), my focus, as much as possible, is on simply being a good person to the people around me and so hopefully softening the attitude towards what offends them at a spiritual level.

 

[Neogaia777]

The issue I have experienced is that although it is true that our faith causes offence simply because of Jesus, it seems very easy for many to present legitimate reasons for the offence.

For example, of the few open believers I have encountered at sea, one man in a person of authority, was a terrible person to his crew and if I had ever thought this was because of the offence of the Cross that thought was dashed by what I know of him when he sailed on a Christian ship. This reputation then carried on to anybody within a whole industry that professed belief in Christ, that they were "one of them".

Many of the other guys I have sailed with over the years have had awful experiences at the hands of authoritarian religious institutions and not just because of the authoritarian nature but because they were actually abusive, again the reputation of these institutions is spread through the whole community and because these people are not religious in anyway they do not know the difference between good and bad religion. So the reputation of Christ is tarnished.

One final example, just because it sticks with me, is when a colleague of mine found himself broken down on the front lawn of a Church building and somebody came out demanding that he remove himself and his car. When he explained that he was broken down and needed a hand this person called the authorities on him. You can guess what his response to this religious git and all who were part with him was, and once again this story of legitimate offence is spread far and wide so that the name of YHWH is maligned.

I really don't think it is any wonder that people are antagonistic towards a group of people who hold themselves out as something special (the children of the God of Love no less) when so many of us fail even to live up to the good standards of sinful people. Trying to tell them that the person expressing Christ and His Spirit would only be Loving and not like these examples simply does not wash and sounds a little like the old "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

Further to this the damage that is done by even one small act of indifference or unkindness is such that it becomes extremely difficult to win the territory back. I for one do not speak of Christ openly in my work place and although I am often caught in the religious act (listening to certain music, reading certain things etc), my focus, as much as possible, is on simply being a good person to the people around me and so hopefully softening the attitude towards what offends them at a spiritual level.

The ones your describing are the ones making it so that no man can truly work, or do the good work of a true spiritual teacher or pastor or preacher or evangelist, etc...

People get to where they won't even receive even very gentle correction, etc... Which has to be a part of it fortunately/unfortunately, etc...

God Bless!

 

[bèlla]

People get to where they won't even receive even very gentle correction, etc... Which has to be a part of it fortunately/unfortunately, etc...

I think many fail to understand human nature or forget it. Most people will not welcome correction or insertion into their private life if you haven’t earned the right to address them in that manner.

And unless the Lord gives you a clear word; the best way to impact others is by developing relationships and mirroring the tenets of your faith.

I had a friend years ago that I met online in a chat room. We hit it off immediately. Over time it was evident she was engaging with other men. Her husband was not aware and he didn’t know we were speaking. This went on for a while.

One day she purchased a netbook that would enable her to talk while at work. She told me something she’d done and I felt myself give way. And I lovingly shared my concerns and the impact her behavior was having on me and the risk she was taking.

He’d left her in the past and taken their son. She didn’t admit it immediately. It took some time before she opened up. I advised her to have a heart to heart with her husband and tell him the truth about our friendship and what she needed from him. I told her coming clean was the only way.

She did it. Their marriage changed and he befriended me too. I wasn’t in Christ at that time. But I knew I’d earned her love and trust. She could hear that from me and know from whence it came.

Oftentimes we underestimate the work that’s gone before. Or we fail to gauge our role. Sometimes my job is prayer and counsel comes from someone else. I seek the Lord first. The long-term damage of errant behavior is grave. We’ve heard the stories and most have firsthand experience.

I am certain others would have broached it earlier. But our mutual love and respect was the difference. That isn’t the lone example I have. Our culture is different. People are less willing to accept invasions of privacy. They may be well meaning but you need to know their story and earn their trust.

 

[Neogaia777]

I think many fail to understand human nature or forget it. Most people will not welcome correction or insertion into their private life if you haven’t earned the right to address them in that manner.

And unless the Lord gives you a clear word; the best way to impact others is by developing relationships and mirroring the tenets of your faith.

I had a friend years ago that I met online in a chat room. We hit it off immediately. Over time it was evident she was engaging with other men. Her husband was not aware and he didn’t know we were speaking. This went on for a while.

One day she purchased a netbook that would enable her to talk while at work. She told me something she’d done and I felt myself give way. And I lovingly shared my concerns and the impact her behavior was having on me and the risk she was taking.

He’d left her in the past and taken their son. She didn’t admit it immediately. It took some time before she opened up. I advised her to have a heart to heart with her husband and tell him the truth about our friendship and what she needed from him. I told her coming clean was the only way.

She did it. Their marriage changed and he befriended me too. I wasn’t in Christ at that time. But I knew I’d earned her love and trust. She could hear that from me and know from whence it came.

Oftentimes we underestimate the work that’s gone before. Or we fail to gauge our role. Sometimes my job is prayer and counsel comes from someone else. I seek the Lord first. The long-term damage of errant behavior is grave. We’ve heard the stories and most have firsthand experience.

I am certain others would have broached it earlier. But our mutual love and respect was the difference. That isn’t the lone example I have. Our culture is different. People are less willing to accept invasions of privacy. They may be well meaning but you need to know their story and earn their trust.

Just to let you know I whole-heartedly agree, I do not talk to people much about anything really, unless they open up to me first, and I wait for them to do that, and that usually takes building a, or some kind of relationship most usually first... That's "in person" anyway, but as we know things are a bit different on an online forum.

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Just to let you know I whole-heartedly agree, I do not talk to people much about anything really, unless they open up to me first, and I wait for them to do that, and that usually takes building a, or some kind of relationship most usually first... That's "in person" anyway, but as we know things are a bit different on an online forum.

God Bless!

I think I prefer one on one interactions in person because of this really, don't care for groups so much or that much... But, I am patient and I wait for the openings, then I try my best to be gentle, kind, understanding, etc... But still correct when necessary at the time also...

God Bless!

 

[Carl Emerson]

Here is a practical example of my OP...

We have taught bible in schools for years.

Some one complains and is 'offended' by it.

Using the 'O' word triggers a political response and no more bible in schools...

 

[Kate30]

Jesus offended many. Jesus was sinless.

Sinners were offended.

Our faith is offensive to sinners.

The offended cry foul when offended, they demand immunity from offence.

Thus they demand our faith is silenced. They press for our confession to be hate speech.

****** DISUSS *****

Carl sadly there are many dark agendas at work that do use the discrimination and the hate speech card to stifle what most of us have always admired and believed: That being our Christian heritage along with all the achievements and blessings that have been bestowed apon us with those biblical roots, from which western civilisation and much of the world did once cherish and embrace. I guess it comes down to how we view the end of the world. Does the world give its eligence to our Lord or does the world give its eligence to the beast.

 

[Neogaia777]

Carl sadly there are many dark agendas at work that do use the discrimination and the hate speech card to stifle what most of us have always admired and believed: That being our Christian heritage along with all the achievements and blessings that have been bestowed apon us with those biblical roots, from which western civilisation and much of the world did once cherish and embrace. I guess it comes down to how we view the end of the world. Does the world give its eligence to our Lord or does the world give its eligence to the beast.

This: Adam and Eve and The Garden of Eden, "You shall not touch it, lest you die"...

God Bless!

 

[Dave-W]

Jesus offended many. Jesus was sinless.
Sinners were offended.
Our faith is offensive to sinners.
The offended cry foul when offended, they demand immunity from offence.
Thus they demand our faith is silenced. They press for our confession to be hate speech.
****** DISUSS *****

It is important to understand what is meant biblically by "offense." It is a lot more than getting your feelings hurt. It is a stumbling block which trips one up into committing sins.

Romans 14:20
Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.

1 Corinthians 10:32
Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God;

As to the gospel being problematic for sinners, it always has been and always will be. It is important to understand that fact. But it is also important that we do not ADD to the problem by throwing our own roadblocks into the mix.

 

[Neogaia777]

It is important to understand what is meant biblically by "offense." It is a lot more than getting your feelings hurt. It is a stumbling block which trips one up into committing sins.

Romans 14:20
Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.

1 Corinthians 10:32
Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God;

As to the gospel being problematic for sinners, it always has been and always will be. It is important to understand that fact. But it is also important that we do not ADD to the problem by throwing our own roadblocks into the mix.

What about Jesus being a rock mass (stumbling block) of offense...?

Does it or He trip them up into committing sins...?

It's not a sin to offend people "sometimes" and under certain circumstances or conditions or circumstances, and can be even be good, and the right thing to do or "righteous" (as long as it's not self-righteous)...

If your alone with someone, one on one, and they start either opening up to you, or says something that "offends you", what do you do, either with the former or the latter...?

God Bless!

 

[Dave-W]

Does it or He trip them up into committing sins...?

Rejecting HIM is certainly a very grave sin.

 

[Dave-W]

It's not a sin to offend people "sometimes" and under certain circumstances or conditions or circumstances, and can be even be good, and the right thing to do or "righteous" (as long as it's not self-righteous)...

That does not fit the biblical definition of "offense."

If your alone with someone, one on one, and they start either opening up to you, or says something that "offends you", what do you do, either with the former or the latter...?

Again, that should not fit the definition of offense.

If they upset your sensibilities, you need to take that to God in prayer. If the upset is great enough, you should talk it thru with them as well.

 

[Neogaia777]

That does not fit the biblical definition of "offense."

Again, that should not fit the definition of offense.

If they upset your sensibilities, you need to take that to God in prayer. If the upset is great enough, you should talk it thru with them as well.

What about Jesus being a rock mass (stumbling block) of offense...?

Does it or He trip them up into committing sins...?

(notice you left out that part)

Jesus offended many, and if there is no correction of anyone, ever, then we're not really preaching or proclaiming Christ...

If one of my good friends is having the wrong perspective on things, or attitude, outlook etc, and is a cause of their own misery because of it, and is acting like a devil or a spoiled child, then yes, I will try to correct them, and the more stubborn or bull or hard headed they are with me with my, at first, "gentle attempts at correction", then the rougher, or less gentle I'll get, or will become, and it's for their own good, and I'll risk losing the relationship over it as well, if it's for their own good, and I 100% absolutely know it is, etc, and this has actually happened to or with me and with a few friends more than a few times, etc...

And I do not regret it either, etc...

And if there is none of that in Christianity, then it's not really Christianity...

God Bless!

 

[Dave-W]

What about Jesus being a rock mass (stumbling block) of offense...?
Does it or He trip them up into committing sins...?

I addressed that in post #15.

The gospel incites those being taken over by their sin nature to reject HIM. A grave sin.

 

[Neogaia777]

I addressed that in post #15.

The gospel incites those being taken over by their sin nature to reject HIM. A grave sin.

Oh, OK.

What is your definition of, or is in your opinion the biblical definition of offense...?

And are you saying the the Gospel never offends...? And if you are, or are not, how are we to share or spread the Gospel if we are never ever to ever offend anyone or ever be offensive at all, etc...?

You know the root word to "offend" is "offensive", or being or going on the offensive, are we never ever to do that ever...?

And if so, how are we supposed to truly ever take or gain territory or ever truly win souls to or for Christ...?

God Bless!

 

[Dave-W]

What is your definition of, or is in your opinion the biblical definition of offense...?

that which causes a person to stumble into sin.

And are you saying the the Gospel never offends...?

No. Of course it offends.

And if you are, or are not, how are we to share or spread the Gospel if we are never ever to ever offend anyone or ever be offensive at all, etc...?

We are told to not offend our brothers. (fellow believers) It does not apply to "anyone" or "ever be offensive at all."

how are we supposed to truly ever take or gain territory or ever truly win souls to or for Christ...?

Since our Lord said no one can come to Him without the Father drawing him, (John 6:44) we pray for God to draw the people we are sharing the gospel with.