Of Ancient Egypt

[JohnEmmett]

I said we should be concerned about eternity

whether or not we are concerned about eternity

 

[SelfSim]

I said we should be concerned about eternity

whether or not we are concerned about eternity

.. (which is your personal opinion).

 

[sjastro]

Perhaps somewhat off topic but very much related to ancient Egypt.

I posed a question to the Egyptologist Chris Naunton who has turned into a TV celebrity as he seems to appear in just about every documentary on ancient Egypt that comes out of the UK these days.

My question being;

Hello Chris,

Leaving aside Manetho’s history of Egypt which was probably written to satisfy Greek curiosity of the time, were the ancient Egyptians interested in recording their history?

Apart from the king lists that existed, correct me if I am wrong, but it would appear an Egyptian Pharaoh in the New Kingdom knew little about his Old Kingdom counterparts.
For example Thutmose’s IV Stele found at the foot of the Sphinx indicates that he was probably unaware of the identity of the Pharaoh represented by the Sphinx.

In the late period Herodotus had to invent a story about the Pharaohs who built the pyramids at Giza, as it appears the Egyptians no longer knew their identities.

Thanks in advance.

Chris Naunton's response;

I think the kinglists show clearly that the Egyptians were very aware of their own history. The relative accuracy of the 19th dynasty lists e.g. at Abydos is quite staggering when you consider how far distant in time the earliest kings were already by that point (almost 2,000 years!). Manetho and Herodotus would also have drawn on Egyptian sources – neither is as accurate as we might like them to have been but much of what they recorded had at least some basis in reality. Consider how much, in 2017, our records tell us of what was going on in our own countries 2,000+ years ago – the Egyptians’ records compare very well! Of course much detail will have been lost, but an incredible amount was retained. It was also commonplace for pharaohs to make reference to their ancestors and their achievements, and many were celebrated long after their own lifetimes. The phenomenon of archaising also shows that craftsmen e.g. in the Late Period must have been aware of, and indeed probably studied, much older monuments. So, were the Egyptians’ interested in recording their history – yes, I think they were, very much so!

A hypothesis has been offered which might explain why Thutmose IV did not acknowledge the Pharaoh who constructed the Sphinx.

In 2012, Dr Hutan Ashrafian, a surgeon at Imperial College London, analysed the early death of Thutmose IV and the premature deaths of other Eighteenth Dynasty pharaohs (including Tutankhamun and Akhenaten). He concluded that their early deaths were likely a result of a familial temporal epilepsy. This would account for the untimely mortality in Thutmose IV and can also explain his religious vision described on his Dream Stele due to this type of epilepsy's association with intense spiritual visions and religiosity.

 

[JohnEmmett]

This would account for … his religious vision described on his Dream Stele due to this type of epilepsy's association with intense spiritual visions and religiosity.

He had a vision…

You need not account for it

 

[sjastro]

He had a vision…

You need not account for it

Why don't you try posting something that is relevant such as understanding why "My hovercraft is full of eels." has a deep spiritual meaning.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Why don't you try posting something that is relevant such as understanding why "My hovercraft is full of eels." has a deep spiritual meaning.

Ajñana

 

[SelfSim]

I think the kinglists show clearly that the Egyptians were very aware of their own history.

I wonder just how widespread knowledge of the past was really was?
As I understand it, education was extremely limited to the few and the very powerful .. the rest were slaves.
History stays alive purely as a result of education, no?

 

[sjastro]

I wonder just how widespread knowledge of the past was really was?
As I understand it, education was extremely limited to the few and the very powerful .. the rest were slaves.
History stays alive purely as a result of education, no?

Chris Naunton made a very strong point that in the late period (I think from the 24th dynasty), Egypt went into a retro period where there was a major resurgence of Old Kingdom architecture, art and religion (old gods coming back into favour) from 2000 years earlier on which would suggest knowledge was preserved for a very long period of time and available to the class that could read and write.
Until more recent times the general population was largely illiterate and knowledge was preserved among a select few.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Chris Naunton made a very strong point that in the late period (I think from the 24th dynasty), Egypt went into a retro period where there was a major resurgence of Old Kingdom architecture, art and religion (old gods coming back into favour) from 2000 years earlier on which would suggest knowledge was preserved for a very long period of time and available to the class that could read and write.
Until more recent times the general population was largely illiterate and knowledge was preserved among a select few.

Yes, I would imagine that a sect or sects of astronomers, astrologers, priests, and historians would have been important in keeping alive knowledge of the gods (including the old pharaohs), their rituals, etc., and their places in the heavens.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Dialogue between Solon and an Egyptian Priest…

“O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are but children. There is no old doctrine handed down among you by ancient tradition nor any science which is hoary with age, and I will tell you the reason behind this.

There have been and will be again many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes, the greatest having been brought about by fire and deluge.”

― Plato, Timaeus

 

[JohnEmmett]

Ancient Egypt’s Mysteriously Destroyed Lost Capital

 

[Lost4words]

Earthquakes..

 

[JohnEmmett]

Earthquakes

I will lay waste Upper Egypt, set fire to Zoan and inflict punishment on Thebes.

Ezekiel 30:14

 

[Lost4words]

God can use natural disasters to lay waste anything.

 

[JohnEmmett]

God can use natural disasters to lay waste anything.

seems like a comet…

 

[Lost4words]

seems like a comet…

No crater

 

[JohnEmmett]

No crater

Energy from space…

 

[JohnEmmett]

They had a lost technology…

 

[JohnEmmett]

Evidence of a lost civilization…

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Evidence of a lost civilization…

There are lots of lost civilisations. What's special about this one?