Occupy Oakland: second Iraq war veteran injured by police

Panzerkamfwagen

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I never was shot for doing that. Infact, its perfectly within your rights to yell at police things like "Thug!" "Fascist!" and "pig!" at a protest.

Go try that at the scene of a riot, then get back to me.

What about this is violent? What about this warrants shooting someone? He was video taping the police line; he was documenting reality. He was recording history.

What about that is so bad? The police are just paranoid idiots from what we can tell.

So then if he's "documenting reality" why doesn't he document what the crowd is doing?

Words aren't violence. Shooting someone using words, however, IS violence.

What kind of brainless moron thinks words are violence to justify police brutality?

Well, there's nine of them actually.

Go start yelling F*** the police at the scene of a riot and see how that works out.
 
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Panzerkamfwagen

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your defending these jackbooted thugs like a real statist bootlicker would; he was videotaping, at a wide distance; if some cop yelled out some stupid, muffled, incoherent instructions through their gas masks, its his fault for not being able to hear it?

He was videotaping a line of police with a crowd, probably at the scene of a riot, late at night.
 
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mpok1519

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Go try that at the scene of a riot, then get back to me.

If theres a riot, it really doesn't matter what people are yelling. A riot is bad because its a riot. A protest doesn't become a riot just because people are yelling "Pig!" to the cops. Duh. Since when does yelling things mean gasing people, brutalizing them with nightsticks, and shooting them?



So then if he's "documenting reality" why doesn't he document what the crowd is doing?


The crowd was protesting. PEacefully. Did you see bottles, rocks, or any weapons being thrown, or any projectiles hitting the cops? Its safe to assume the protesters were within their rights to assemble. Well, safe, if one is rational. I can't say its safe to assume anything if one is an idiot.


This is you admitting that they're idiots. So why should their word matter?

Also, the cameraman wasn't saying, anything. So, according to your justification, he shouldn't have been shot with a rubber bullet, since he wasn't saying, ANYTHING. He was video taping.

Go start yelling F*** the police at the scene of a riot and see how that works out.

Ive done that on several occasions at protests. I flipped them off too. No one shot me. Some cops laughed, but they didn't respond with violence.

You're just defending jackboot thuggery. why fall into the group of statist bootlickers?
 
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mpok1519

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He was videotaping a line of police with a crowd, probably at the scene of a riot, late at night.

Then the cops should arrest the rioters, and not shoot at random people who were peacefully assembling.

SOME people riot. You can't lump everyone together as rioters, just because of a few bad apples. You can't identify a peaceful protester as a rioter, just because others are rioters.

Well, one can. But thats fascist and tyrannical. Something a statist bootlicking footstool would do. But not a rational, reasonable person.
 
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Panzerkamfwagen

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If theres a riot, it really doesn't matter what people are yelling. A riot is bad because its a riot. A protest doesn't become a riot just because people are yelling "Pig!" to the cops. Duh. Since when does yelling things mean gasing people, brutalizing them with nightsticks, and shooting them?

Right, because people just gather in the street late at night and start yelling obscenities at the police for fun.

The crowd was protesting. PEacefully. Did you see bottles, rocks, or any weapons being thrown, or any projectiles hitting the cops? Its safe to assume the protesters were within their rights to assemble. Well, safe, if one is rational. I can't say its safe to assume anything if one is an idiot.

That video conveniently doesn't show the actions of any of the protestors. Hmm. I wonder why that could be. Is perhaps because the cameraman doesn't want people too see what the "protestors" are doing? Why would he want to hide that if they're peaceful?

This is you admitting that they're idiots. So why should their word matter?

Also, the cameraman wasn't saying, anything. So, according to your justification, he shouldn't have been shot with a rubber bullet, since he wasn't saying, ANYTHING. He was video taping.

If you can't figure out why the word of nine justices on the United States Supreme Court should matter, then I'm afraid that I really can't help you figure it out.

Ive done that on several occasions at protests. I flipped them off too. No one shot me. Some cops laughed, but they didn't respond with violence.

You're just defending jackboot thuggery. why fall into the group of statist bootlickers?

I fall into the group of statist bootlickers, because I don't want anarchist rabble invading my house, destroying my property, or vandalizing my business. But I'm a fascist tool.

Then the cops should arrest the rioters, and not shoot at random people who were peacefully assembling.

Who, for example, conveniently don't videotape their peaceful protest only the line of police as they pace up and down, and the less lethal means of violence that the police use against them. If it was a peaceful protest, why not videotape it and show how peaceful it was, then take your complaint against the unjustified police brutality to the civil rights division of the FBI or sue the police department in court?

Then the cops should arrest the rioters, and not shoot at random people who were peacefully assembling.

SOME people riot. You can't lump everyone together as rioters, just because of a few bad apples. You can't identify a peaceful protester as a rioter, just because others are rioters.

Well, one can. But thats fascist and tyrannical. Something a statist bootlicking footstool would do. But not a rational, reasonable person.

I'm reasonable, and if I decided to riot, or if I was at the scene of a riot, and got caught up in it, I might expect to get caught up in it.
 
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stamperben

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That video conveniently doesn't show the actions of any of the protestors. Hmm. I wonder why that could be. Is perhaps because the cameraman doesn't want people too see what the "protestors" are doing? Why would he want to hide that if they're peaceful?
Since it was pointed out, and if you look at the video he was shooting, you see NO rocks, bottles or Molotov cocktails being thrown. Perhaps what he wasn't taping was the crowd mooning the police line. Blowing kisses to them maybe? What ever they were doing, it didn't justify shooting at them.
 
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Panzerkamfwagen

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Since it was pointed out, and if you look at the video he was shooting, you see NO rocks, bottles or Molotov cocktails being thrown. Perhaps what he wasn't taping was the crowd mooning the police line. Blowing kisses to them maybe? What ever they were doing, it didn't justify shooting at them.

They shot at them with rubber bullets. It's not like they loaded up the police department's APC and took after the protestors with machine guns. The was shot with less lethal ordinance, and was able to get up and walk away. If protestors started throwing molotov cocktails and stones, then the police have a reason to use lethal force. It's like the difference between OC spray and a gunshot wound. Yeah, the spray sucks if you're even in the same room, but it beats getting shot.

The thing is, he doesn't show any context of what's going on, other than that he's filming the police while he's with a group of people which are yelling foul epithets at the police. Why doesn't he take five seconds and pan around to show what the crowd is doing?

Does he not want people to see it?

If I wanted to paint the police as jackbooted oppressors, I'd show the peaceful protestors, then I'd show them giving that group of people violence.
 
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stamperben

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They shot at them with rubber bullets. It's not like they loaded up the police department's APC and took after the protestors with machine guns. The was shot with less lethal ordinance, and was able to get up and walk away. If protestors started throwing molotov cocktails and stones, then the police have a reason to use lethal force. It's like the difference between OC spray and a gunshot wound. Yeah, the spray sucks if you're even in the same room, but it beats getting shot.

The thing is, he doesn't show any context of what's going on, other than that he's filming the police while he's with a group of people which are yelling foul epithets at the police. Why doesn't he take five seconds and pan around to show what the crowd is doing?

Does he not want people to see it?

If I wanted to paint the police as jackbooted oppressors, I'd show the peaceful protestors, then I'd show them giving that group of people violence.
No matter how you try to frame it, his getting shot was unjustified. Period.
 
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Panzerkamfwagen

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No matter how you try to frame it, his getting shot was unjustified. Period.

Prove it. (The way to do so that would convince this fascist running dog lackey is to show context of the police shooting him with a rubber bullet. I.E. that he was standing there with his union issued sign stapled to his union issue baseball bat having a peaceful protest.)

Oh, wait. There is no context to the video. It doesn't even show what he was doing.

I've been tear gassed, pepper sprayed, had weapons point at me, handcuffed, and such, so I think I know what I'm talking about. When I experienced those things, there were very good reasons.
 
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mpok1519

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Right, because people just gather in the street late at night and start yelling obscenities at the police for fun.

Failed to address what I said, but good try.

That video conveniently doesn't show the actions of any of the protestors. Hmm. I wonder why that could be. Is perhaps because the cameraman doesn't want people too see what the "protestors" are doing? Why would he want to hide that if they're peaceful?

What could the protesters have been doing that warrants one cop shooting one cameraman who was being peaceful? Are you suggesting the protesters behind him were being violent?

If you can't figure out why the word of nine justices on the United States Supreme Court should matter, then I'm afraid that I really can't help you figure it out.

Shouting obsceneties warrants shooting people? Why? If someone calls you a name, does that give you the right to hit them? No? Thought so.

I fall into the group of statist bootlickers, because I don't want anarchist rabble invading my house, destroying my property, or vandalizing my business. But I'm a fascist tool.

We're not talking about invading and destroying property and vandalism; we're talking about peaceful protest.

Who, for example, conveniently don't videotape their peaceful protest only the line of police as they pace up and down, and the less lethal means of violence that the police use against them. If it was a peaceful protest, why not videotape it and show how peaceful it was, then take your complaint against the unjustified police brutality to the civil rights division of the FBI or sue the police department in court?

Does it matter? If he was videotaping the peaceful protesters, he would have been shot in the back, and wouldn't have the evidence of the excessive force and brutality.

You realize, like true fascists, police band together and cover up to protect the scum amongst their ranks?

I'm reasonable, and if I decided to riot, or if I was at the scene of a riot, and got caught up in it, I might expect to get caught up in it.

They weren't rioting. The cameraman, who was shot, was not rioting. How do you not grasp this?
 
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mpok1519

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He was videotaping a line of police with a crowd, probably at the scene of a riot, late at night.

what evidence do you have for your assumption that there was a riot going on? In a riot, you'd see bottles, rocks, molotovs, fire, et al, being hurled at the cops. In a peaceful protest, you don't see this. And we saw nothing to indicate a riot.

So defend thuggery else where.
 
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mpok1519

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I've been tear gassed, pepper sprayed, had weapons point at me, handcuffed, and such, so I think I know what I'm talking about. When I experienced those things, there were very good reasons.

Well that makes sense; you've been traumatized and brutalized yourself so much that rationale has lost you.
 
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stamperben

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Prove it. (The way to do so that would convince this fascist running dog lackey is to show context of the police shooting him with a rubber bullet. I.E. that he was standing there with his union issued sign stapled to his union issue baseball bat having a peaceful protest.)

Oh, wait. There is no context to the video. It doesn't even show what he was doing.

I've been tear gassed, pepper sprayed, had weapons point at me, handcuffed, and such, so I think I know what I'm talking about. When I experienced those things, there were very good reasons.
So now in addition to his taping the crowd behind him you want him to tape himself too? Man, even Google can't do that with their camera. :D
 
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Panzerkamfwagen

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What could the protesters have been doing that warrants one cop shooting one cameraman who was being peaceful? Are you suggesting the protesters behind him were being violent?

I don't know. This guy didn't see fit to record any of the context of what happens.

We're not talking about invading and destroying property and vandalism; we're talking about peaceful protest.

And the evidence of that is that there's a huge police presence in an area where there's been riots with a crowd of people yelling obscenities at the police, oh, and it's late at night. At the peaceful protests I've been to were during the day. Most of the time there weren't any police.

Shouting obsceneties warrants shooting people? Why? If someone calls you a name, does that give you the right to hit them? No? Thought so.

I don't know. Did they comply with police orders? There's no context other then "here's a line of police then one of them shot me with something that isn't supposed to be lethal." I think that photographer is trying to conceal something. He spends thirty seconds filming the police, but can't take four or five to pan around and show some context of the scene.

Does it matter? If he was videotaping the peaceful protesters, he would have been shot in the back, and wouldn't have the evidence of the excessive force and brutality.

You realize, like true fascists, police band together and cover up to protect the scum amongst their ranks?

It matters to me. If he hung back and showed a crowd of people holding signs, then I'd believe it was a peaceful protest.

They weren't rioting. The cameraman, who was shot, was not rioting. How do you not grasp this?

Where's some video evidence that shows it? Oh, wait there isn't any.

Well that makes sense; you've been traumatized and brutalized yourself so much that rationale has lost you.

I guess I have. Maybe I suffer from the Stockholm syndrome.
 
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mpok1519

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I don't know. This guy didn't see fit to record any of the context of what happens.

Probably because the context was perfectly clear in the video. The crowd was NOT shouting obsceneties, throwing things, or doing anything violent. You're just defending jackbooted thuggery, probably because you are within that boys club.


And the evidence of that is that there's a huge police presence in an area where there's been riots with a crowd of people yelling obscenities at the police, oh, and it's late at night. At the peaceful protests I've been to were during the day. Most of the time there weren't any police.

Ive been to peaceful protests at night, day, and twilight, and there were cops at all of them, at every time. So tell me another one of your strawmen.


I don't know. Did they comply with police orders? There's no context other then "here's a line of police then one of them shot me with something that isn't supposed to be lethal." I think that photographer is trying to conceal something. He spends thirty seconds filming the police, but can't take four or five to pan around and show some context of the scene.

Yeah, so, if a cop orders you, peacefully protesting and assembling within your rights, to stop invoking your rights, you have to obey them?

WHO CARES IF HE DIDNT FILM WHAT WAS BEHIND HIM. He can't point cameras in EVERY single direction to coddle your irrational delusional paranoia.

It matters to me. If he hung back and showed a crowd of people holding signs, then I'd believe it was a peaceful protest.

You'd find some other statist excuse to defend the cops. If the cops were murdering people, you'd probably say "eh, they deserved it." Because you probably fit in that fraternal organization of thugs.

Where's some video evidence that shows it? Oh, wait there isn't any.

The video would have shown a riot if there was a riot. There wasn't even noise in the background to suggest there was a riot. There weren't bottles, rocks, or projectiles, being thrown, to suggest there was a riot. There were no sounds, or sights, of a riot. If there was a riot, guess what, dont you think he would have panned, JUST for a split second, to the crowd of dangerous, violent people posing a possible threat to his person, right behind him, if there was one?

Your argument is this: "You do not NOT know that there was not a riot going on." Which is just stupid. I know you're smarter than that, but like a pedantic petulant child, you refuse to ignore reality.

I guess I have. Maybe I suffer from the Stockholm syndrome.

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.
 
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mpok1519

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MachZer0

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Heres a good video of cops brutalizing students in their own university. Kids form a human chain (perfectly legal, peaceful), and cops just start to bash them with nightsticks.

If you're protesting, in a designated protest spot, cops can't order you to cease invoking your constitutional rights.
Forming a human chain is not necessarily legal. You can do it in your front yard all day long, but if you're blocking other people's access or path, you're breaking the law. In that case, you stand a good chance of getting your butt kicked, or a baton in the stomach
 
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stamperben

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Forming a human chain is not necessarily legal. You can do it in your front yard all day long, but if you're blocking other people's access or path, you're breaking the law. In that case, you stand a good chance of getting your butt kicked, or a baton in the stomach
I'd be interested in seeing the statute you base that on.
 
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