Ocasio-Cortez advisor lied -- money for the unwilling to work

cow451

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Im just saying if you're going to pay someone hard earned tax dollars then they should work for it, if they are not disabled of course.
I don’t disagree with that in principle.
 
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Speedwell

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If it were really about "hard-earned tax dollars, the Right would be glad to allow the unemployed poor to engage in small-scale entrepreneurial activities instead of brutally suppressing them. As it is, the only street business with enough cash flow to justify the risk of being confronted by the authorities is illegal drugs.
 
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cow451

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If it were really about "hard-earned tax dollars, the Right would be glad to allow the unemployed poor to engage in small-scale entrepreneurial activities instead of brutally suppressing them. As it is, the only street business with enough cash flow to justify the risk of being confronted by the authorities is illegal drugs.
There are many would-be small businesses startups that are held back by the lack of access to affordable healthcare. Universal healthcare would free up these people to leave the big companies and put their ideas to work. In doing so open up the jobs they would vacate.
 
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Speedwell

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There are many would-be small businesses startups that are held back by the lack of access to affordable healthcare. Universal healthcare would free up these people to leave the big companies and put their ideas to work. In doing so open up the jobs they would vacate.
I was thinking of the more informal kind of street business activity, but you're right. Single payer health care would a boon to existing small businesses and an encouragement to others to start one.

But the Right won't have that either and the common thread is that they aren't necessarily interested in just having the poor work for their keep, but that they submit to the authority of an employer for it.

It's fealty they want from the lower orders, not work.
 
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Ringo84

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Why should the ability to take care of oneself be tied to a job?

That's a serious question. I'm not sure I believe anymore that anyone's ability to keep themselves alive and/or well fed should depend on their labor utility.
Ringo
 
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TLK Valentine

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Why should the ability to take care of oneself be tied to a job?

That's a serious question. I'm not sure I believe anymore that anyone's ability to keep themselves alive and/or well fed should depend on their labor utility.
Ringo

It is a pretty problem, isn't it? The people who are the most vocally "anti-socialism" are the ones who connect your right to exist with your usefulness to others.

Ironic, isn't it?
 
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Speedwell

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Why should the ability to take care of oneself be tied to a job?

That's a serious question. I'm not sure I believe anymore that anyone's ability to keep themselves alive and/or well fed should depend on their labor utility.
Ringo
I have spent extended periods of time working on aid projects in what is known as the "third world." I have been to the slums of cities like Kampala, Dar es Salaam and Nairobi. What I have observed is that they are teeming with small scale economic activity as the desperately poor inhabitants struggle, sometimes with reasonable success, to make a living without any government assistance.

I have also been to places like the south side of Chicago--I taught at Richard Daley College for a while. What I noticed there was the absence of that kind of economic activity. The streets are empty and dead except for occasional national chain convenience stores or fast-food outlets, not so much as a taco cart or an old man on the street corner selling the melons he grew in his yard. Such entrepreneurial ventures are ruthlessly suppressed. The only business with enough cash flow to make it worthwhile to confront the cops about it is illegal drug sales.

The only way up is to "get a job," which means a clean shirt, a socko resume, a call back number and the willingness to suck up to some prissy twit in the HR department of a national corporation.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Chiropractors don’t put anyone on disability. Neither does a private physician. The process to get classified permanently disabled is quite rigid and includes evaluations by professionals contracting with Social Security.

Now you may be confusing that with short term disability policies purchased through ones employer or privately. But these companies (like UNUM) don’t make a profit by paying claims. And private companies won’t hesitate to investigate anyone suspected of faking.
Fibromyalgia: Understand the diagnosis process
Now obviously you don’t have fibromyalgia because you wouldn’t otherwise wax judgmental. Yes, it is a tricky disorder and there always have been malingerers and fakers. That’s not new or worse than ever.

The only minor surgery or illness is the one somebody else has.

BTW I’m no fan of chiropractic or lots of other “alternative” medicines.

To clarify, I wasn't implying that everyone with that diagnosis is "faking", I was saying that when someone does want to fake, it's one of the most popular ones to use, precisely because there's no way to technically "disprove" the person has it. For instance, if a person claimed they had a broken ankle, and x-ray can prove or disprove that, if a person claims they have cancer, a CT scan can verify. Lab work can be done to verify a bacterial infection. No such tests can prove or disprove Fibromyalgia...so it's a very popular one to fake among people who want to fake.

I don't recall specifying social security disability (if I did, it was a mistake on my part but I don't believe I did), I was more referring to state-level benefits.

For instance, in the state of New York, when people want to collect, the state does recognize it.
Introduction to the Disability Benefits Law

As does California:
upload_2019-2-11_15-53-32.png
 
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Ringo84

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I have spent extended periods of time working on aid projects in what is known as the "third world." I have been to the slums of cities like Kampala, Dar es Salaam and Nairobi. What I have observed is that they are teeming with small scale economic activity as the desperately poor inhabitants struggle, sometimes with reasonable success, to make a living without any government assistance.

I have also been to places like the south side of Chicago--I taught at Richard Daley College for a while. What I noticed there was the absence of that kind of economic activity. The streets are empty and dead except for occasional national chain convenience stores or fast-food outlets, not so much as a taco cart or an old man on the street corner selling the melons he grew in his yard. Such entrepreneurial ventures are ruthlessly suppressed. The only business with enough cash flow to make it worthwhile to confront the cops about it is illegal drug sales.

The only way up is to "get a job," which means a clean shirt, a socko resume, a call back number and the willingness to suck up to some prissy twit in the HR department of a national corporation.
I (respectfully) disagree. I don't think a job should determine your value in the world. Everyone should have an equal opportunity to survive whether they have a job or not.
Ringo
 
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cow451

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Speedwell

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I (respectfully) disagree. I don't think a job should determine your value in the world. Everyone should have an equal opportunity to survive whether they have a job or not.
Ringo
Not with me you don't. It's these so-called believers in "free enterprise" who think that everyone should have an employer and make it as difficult as possible to start out on your own.
Very few people in the slums of Nairobi have jobs, but no one stands in their way of their hustling some kind of a living like the cops stand in the way of it on the South Side of Chicago. No, the poor of Nairobi are not "better off" than the poor here, far from it. But they have opportunities open to them which we systematically foreclose for the poor in this country. Why is that?
 
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Ringo84

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Not with me you don't. It's these so-called believers in "free enterprise" who think that everyone should have an employer and make it as difficult as possible to start out on your own.
Very few people in the slums of Nairobi have jobs, but no one stands in their way of their hustling some kind of a living like the cops stand in the way of it on the South Side of Chicago. No, the poor of Nairobi are not "better off" than the poor here, far from it. But they have opportunities open to them which we systematically foreclose for the poor in this country. Why is that?

So your point is less "everyone should have a job" than "why are the rich standing in the way of people's livelihoods?". Yeah, that's a very good point.
Ringo
 
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Speedwell

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So your point is less "everyone should have a job" than "why are the rich standing in the way of people's livelihoods?". Yeah, that's a very good point.
Ringo
Very much less. The last paragraph of the first post you responded to was delivered in irony. What the rich want is for the poor to be dependent on them, to be their employees, their vassals. Nor do I have any doubt that a good part of the resistance to single payer health care is fear of the freedom and independence it would give to individuals and micro-enterprises.
 
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USincognito

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Just like all of the Trump threads huh? (just for lulz).
When we have 3 to 4 separate threads about a single Trump tweet or whatever, you can get back to me with your whataboutism.
(You forget to phrase it "hate Trump threads" or "Trump hater threads".)
 
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Hank77

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Not with me you don't. It's these so-called believers in "free enterprise" who think that everyone should have an employer and make it as difficult as possible to start out on your own.
Very few people in the slums of Nairobi have jobs, but no one stands in their way of their hustling some kind of a living like the cops stand in the way of it on the South Side of Chicago. No, the poor of Nairobi are not "better off" than the poor here, far from it. But they have opportunities open to them which we systematically foreclose for the poor in this country. Why is that?
When my son was remodeling his first house and needed a extra pair of hands for a day he could pick up a day worker standing on the street to help him. He would pay them $20 per hour, which was a good rate for a laborer in 2000.
 
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Speedwell

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When my son was remodeling his first house and needed a extra pair of hands for a day he could pick up a day worker standing on the street to help him. He would pay them $20 per hour, which was a good rate for a laborer in 2000.
Every town has a place like that--where we live it's the parking lot of the Lowes where men gather early in the morning.
 
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Ken-1122

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So your point is less "everyone should have a job" than "why are the rich standing in the way of people's livelihoods?". Yeah, that's a very good point.
Ringo
I don't think it is the rich that is standing in people's way, I think it's the government. If I cook some food in my house and attempt to sell it on a street corner, some people will question if the food I am selling is safe to eat, so at their request the Government will require I get specific training and licenses that show I am capable of making food in a sanitary way to sell. The same thing if I make a tool, or machine; the Government requires I get training and licenses; not the rich.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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Ringo84

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I don't think it is the rich that is standing in people's way, I think it's the government. If I cook some food in my house and attempt to sell it on a street corner, some people will question if the food I am selling is safe to eat, so at their request the Government will require I get specific training and licenses that show I am capable of making food in a sanitary way to sell. The same thing if I make a tool, or machine; the Government requires I get training and licenses; not the rich.

No, it's the rich. They hoard most of the wealth and exploit you for your labor. All the government asks is that if you're going to cook food on the corner, you follow basic procedures so that you don't make people sick. That's not an unreasonable request.
Ringo
 
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Gigimo

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When we have 3 to 4 separate threads about a single Trump tweet or whatever, you can get back to me with your whataboutism.
(You forget to phrase it "hate Trump threads" or "Trump hater threads".)

You sure it wasn't hypocrisy I was alluding to?

Most of those threads don't even have a viable position/argument (other than they hate Trump) and usually end up going down a rabbit hole.
 
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