Obviously. . .

Saint Philip · Sep 2, 2003

Letting Evolutionists post in a Christian-only forum on Origins is like letting homosexual activists flood a Christian-only forum on morality. God is not being served.

LewisWildermuth · Sep 2, 2003

Thank you for that wonderful insight Saint Philip.

Without your help I would have gone around with the wrong idea that I was saved by the grace of Jesus.

Sigh... You know this still hurts, no matter how many times I hear it. I try my best everyday to live a Christian life, only to have people like this walk up and say "You do not believe exactly the same thing I do, you're going to hell.", you would think I'd be numb to it after all these years.

troodon · Sep 2, 2003

Saint Philip, will you please stop flaming? As LewisWildermuth said, it gets old so very quickly.

Saint Philip · Sep 2, 2003

Lewis, why are you not offended by the Evolutionists who, by flooding the forum with their inane spam, make intelligent debate nearly impossible? I have looked at some of your posts, and you do make some effort. So, why aren't you objecting to the noise level they bring?

Anyway, I wasn't objecting to (theistic) Evolutionists per se, but only to the disruptive behavior caused by a number of Evolutionists here. In fact, I would welcome an intelligent debate with you. But, it isn't going to happen in s pig pen (or a monkey cage).

BTW, you said Creationism is a danger to Christianity. SOB SOB, you know, this still hurts no matter how many times I hear it.

Saint Philip · Sep 2, 2003

The hosts of this forum have done much to promote real dialogue. They have forums for everyone and forums for Christians. They have forums for even subgroups of Christians that are designed be productive for their members rather than be destroyed by others. For example, in the Charismatic forum, non-Charismatics are not allowed to do more than ask questions and leave it at that.

But, in the origin forum, there has been a failure to provide a productive place.

troodon · Sep 2, 2003

Saint Philip said:
Lewis, why are you not offended by the Evolutionists who, by flooding the forum with their inane spam

Could you point us to an example of this "inane spam"? I've yet to notice it (but then again you probably think I'm one of the ones saying it).

BTW, you said Creationism is a danger to Christianity. SOB SOB, you know, this still hurts no matter how many times I hear it.

It does hurt; when you try and have an intelligent conversation with a young unbeliever and they ask, "how can you not believe in evolution?" and "how can you believe in that ark story?" and "dude, I don't want to talk about Darwin" and things of that nature. These people have been duped by Creationism into thinking that Darwin actually has something to do with Christianity. As soon as I say I'm a Christian they assume that I, like you, disregard all scientific evidence, hate Charles Darwin, and come up with my own conclusion of origins by putting on blinders to the outside world and interpret Genesis without giving the slightest thought as to what creation actually tells us.

Because of the horrible social disease of Creationism (you heard me), they assume that in order to become a Christian you have to disregard empirical evidence and think that Satan is deceiving the entire world. When people begin with this mindset it becomes exponentially more difficult to discuss Christianity with them.

troodon · Sep 2, 2003

Saint Philip said:
The hosts of this forum have done much to promote real dialogue. They have forums for everyone and forums for Christians. They have forums for even subgroups of Christians that are designed be productive for their members rather than be destroyed by others. For example, in the Charismatic forum, non-Charismatics are not allowed to do more than ask questions and leave it at that.

So this board should be only for young earth creationists? I'm sure there would be a lot of serious discussion going on there.

This board is for Christians. The definition of "Christian" used on this website can be found here

Erwin (I assume) said:

Rule No. 6 - "Christians Only" Forums

Click to expand...

Erwin (I assume) said:
6) Some forums on this website are provided for Christian discussion only as indicated in the Category Title. To exclude certain cults and sects that may consider themselves "Christian", the definition of a "Christian" for the purposes of these forums will be members who adhere to the contents of the Nicene Creed (and/ or Apostle's Creed) which summarizes the main doctrines held by Evangelical Protestant & Catholic Christianity since the beginning of church history to battle heresy. These are listed below:

Nicene Creed

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic* and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.
Amen.

Apostle's Creed

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.

*The word "catholic" refers not to the Roman Catholic Church, but to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ.

"Christians" who do not adhere to the contents of the above creed are not allowed to post in Christian-only forums. They can however post in the other open forums.

Notice how beliefs regarding origins are not included in either definition.

Another rule is:

Rule No. 1 - No "Flaming"

1) You will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself. This includes implied accusations that another member is not a Christian.

Emphasis mine. You are accusing people of not being a Christian, and in so doing, blatantly breaking the first rule of this website.

But, in the origin forum, there has been a failure to provide a productive place.

Of course it isn't productive. It consists of the theistic evolutionists citing scientific evidence falsifying YEC and then the young earth creationists (basically) questioning our beliefs or merely calling our opinion "unbiblical". When one side is so heavily favored by scientific evidence it is hard for a real scientific discussion to ensue

Also, making this a YEC's only forum would favore productivity how?

Vance · Sep 3, 2003

Who are the non-Christian evolutionists posting here? I know Jet Black has posted occasionally, but his posts are rare and not disruptive at all, so I am not sure who you mean.

JesusServant · Sep 3, 2003

Saint Philip said:
Letting Evolutionists post in a Christian-only forum on Origins is like letting homosexual activists flood a Christian-only forum on morality. God is not being served.

I sense that you're frustrated, but understand that we DO allow people to post their views and opinions here not just one side of things. I am a creationist and probably always will be. Personally, I think evolution is bunk. But other have a right to post their views here as well. Whether or not that makes them any less Christian is for God to decide IMHO.

Everyone please don't direct your posts AT each other but at the discussion or topic. Let's keep it civil folks.

Saint Philip · Sep 3, 2003

JesusServant said:
I sense that you're frustrated, but understand that we DO allow people to post their views and opinions here not just one side of things.

Yes, I'm frustrated. I have no objection to two sides. Frankly, the level of discussion in this forum is very low. In the similiar forum for non-Christians as well, what's the point of a Creationist even entering unless he wants to be flogged by a bunch of twits?

notto · Sep 3, 2003

Saint Philip said:
Yes, I'm frustrated. I have no objection to two sides. Frankly, the level of discussion in this forum is very low. In the similiar forum for non-Christians as well, what's the point of a Creationist even entering unless he wants to be flogged by a bunch of twits?

Why don't you present a topic or argument for discussion and include references and support for that topic or argument and take it from there?

lucaspa · Sep 3, 2003

Saint Philip said:
Letting Evolutionists post in a Christian-only forum on Origins is like letting homosexual activists flood a Christian-only forum on morality. God is not being served.

Really? Since the "evolutionists" in question are Christians, you have a real problem here.

1. Evolution is not anti-Christian.
2. Accepting evolution immediately removes a person from Christianity.

Which do you think it is?

lucaspa · Sep 3, 2003

Saint Philip said:
But, in the origin forum, there has been a failure to provide a productive place.

Please define "productive place". What do you consider "productive"? On a personal note, am I one of the "inane" that you don't want to discuss with?

nephilimiyr · Sep 3, 2003

Saint Philip said:
Lewis, why are you not offended by the Evolutionists who, by flooding the forum with their inane spam, make intelligent debate nearly impossible? I have looked at some of your posts, and you do make some effort. So, why aren't you objecting to the noise level they bring?

What I see while reading these forums is a form of comradery, that is creationists stick together and evolutionists stick together. If a fellow creationists says something out of line you will hardly ever see another creationist admonish him and vise-versa for the evolutionists. Yes there are those on both sides who will step to the plate and take one for the team, as it's sometimes said, but by and large it seems as if no one is ever offended by what someone else in their group says about others who don't agree with their group. Maybe they are offended but just don't want to saything thing that might hurt their cause?

Anyway I see your opening statement as not being appropriate here. I don't see how someones belief in how God created have anything to do with whether they should be allowed to post here.

BTW, you said Creationism is a danger to Christianity. SOB SOB, you know, this still hurts no matter how many times I hear it.

I agree that for anyone to say that creationism is a danger to christianity is not appropriate either and hypocritical if they object to others who say what you said in your first post.

Sinai · Sep 3, 2003

Saint Philip said:
Yes, I'm frustrated. I have no objection to two sides. Frankly, the level of discussion in this forum is very low. In the similiar forum for non-Christians as well, what's the point of a Creationist even entering unless he wants to be flogged by a bunch of twits?

Just because two people disagree with each other about a particular issue does not necessarily mean that either of them is a "twit"--or is not worthy of respect or consideration for that person's feelings and beliefs. Each of us have certain feelings and beliefs regarding issues that concern us. Hopefully, we have an underlying basis for those beliefs. If that underlying basis is true and reliable, it should be able to stand up to scrutiny and examination.

I suspect that may be one reason God has allowed so many verifications of the Bible to exist: As historical and scientific evidence repeatedly confirms the events and statements of the Bible, the truthfulness and reliability of the Bible is also confrmed and verified.

I suggest that if you think that scripture and science seem to be contradicting each other, it is very likely that you either do not understand what science is actually presenting or that you do not fully understand what the Bible may be saying--or both. In other words, it may be time to check both the most credible scientific sources available, and to check what the actual Hebrew or Greek scriptures say--and what the range of meanings is for the words and phrases in question.

JesusServant · Sep 3, 2003

I'm closing this thread since it's just an argument and certain people cannot refrain from calling people names.

Obviously. . .

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