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Obama seems to agree with Trump regarding most immigration points

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by Mountainmanbob, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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  2. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    And Obama agreed in many areas with Bush Jr.

    Interesting how what Bush proposed the Repubs cheered and the Dems demonized.

    When Obama said almost the same thing the Repubs booed and the Dems cheered.

    Now Trump is promoting something similar and it is back to the same old same old: the Repubs cheered and the Dems demonized.

    It is all about party, and not about substance at all.
     
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  3. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 Well-Known Member Supporter

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  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    So....both of them said what Trump is saying, but now it produces calls for impeachment and jail, not just boos and cheers.
     
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  5. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Pretty much. The rhetoric just keeps ramping up and up and up ....
     
  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    --and this is what is so damaging to our democracy. When one side gets away with something that previously was thought of as little more than theoretically possible, the other is going to respond in kind or at least partially so. Therefore the bar is raised until nothing is unthinkable--framing the other candidate, soliciting false testimony, rigged elections, subpoena-ing people repeatedly just to berate them, planting false news reports, and then it goes to soliciting and condoning violence. Almost nothing is off the table now.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  7. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla His little lady

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    An apple tree can only bear apples. You won’t find pears. If both parties are saying the same thing it’s probable they’re the same. ;-)
     
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  8. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    What you posted from Obama has been the position of mainstream dems in Congress for a while. Not open borders, as many here seem to think.
     
  9. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The problem is that the party is being directed by the extremists now, even if it is the case--which I think it probably is--that most elected officials and party regulars are as you say. This doesn't leave the mainstream members, as opposed to the extremists, off the hook, however, since they seem inactive in the face of the latter group. The party couldn't even pass a resolution in the House to oppose anti-Semitism, for goodness sake!
     
  10. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    That’s simply untrue. The front runner to be the 2020 candidate is the most conservative one! The elected speaker is a “party regular”. The people you are calling “extremists” (which means that most of Europe is “extreme”) are just getting a lot of press.
     
  11. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The House couldn't even get up a resolution opposing anti-Semitism, so servile are the regulars in the face of the ones you dismiss as just people getting a lot of press.

    House Democrats fail to condemn anti-Semitism, don't rebuke Rep. Ilhan Omar
     
  12. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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  13. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    You said its "simply untrue" that the fringe elements are calling the shots in the party now. This shows us how far the regulars are going not to challenge them, not even by a vote on a resolution condemning something that nobody should have any trouble affirming.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  14. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    What?
    Have heard that no where else?
    M-Bob
     
  15. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    So? Not rebuking someone because you don’t think they need a rebuke means that someone “calls the shots?” Nope.
    House passes resolution condemning anti-Semitism and anti-Muslim discrimination - CNNPolitics

    I wish the “fringe” called the shots. But they don’t have enough votes.
     
  16. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    "Fringe" of what?
    M-Bob
     
  17. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    It was an example. How many examples do you think it will take for you to give up denying the undeniable?

    And I have to challenge that claim, too. While Biden leads in the polls, he is the choice of only about one-quarter of the respondents. If the next five or so candidates, all further to the left, were not dividing up the bulk of the remaining votes among themselves, it would be easily seen where the party stands today.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  18. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    See @Albion ’s post #13
     
  19. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    It would take examples of bills put forward by the “fringe” elements passing in the house. But I’m open to hearing some other analysis. I really want the shots to be called by the people on the left in Congress.

    Hey I think you have a point here! I wasn’t thinking of it that way. If only THE PEOPLE actually chose the nominee and not the DNC...
     
  20. DZoolander

    DZoolander Persnickety Member

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    I agree with @Dave-W - 99% of all political dialogue has absolutely no substance to it whatsoever.

    People don't speak out of conviction. It's whatever can help their side at the moment - and hopefully "hurt" the other.

    If I had my druthers - we'd ban political parties altogether. Let people start looking at issues on their actual merits instead of worrying about who proposed it.
     
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