Obama defends ground zero mosque plans

allhart

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Hey, the dude wants to build a gay bar there, I say more power to him. My one concern would be how long it will stay in operation. He's stated he's aiming it at specifically gay Muslims. Given the relative size of the Muslim community, and the relative size of the gay community, that's a pretty small pool to draw from.

So any investor must know that they're just flushing money away. But if they have the money to flush, let them do so.
You mean like Muslims handle gays in Afghanistan or any other Muslim Nations for that matter! Execution style :eek: furthermore in how they treat all criminal acts....maybe cut your nose and ears off for stating your husbands abusive and raped you!
 
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Archaeopteryx

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You mean like Muslims handle gays in Afghanistan or any other Muslim Nations for that matter! Execution style :eek: furthermore in how they treat all criminal acts....maybe cut your nose and ears off for stating your husbands abusive and raped you!

What a lovely straw-man. Did you use your own straw?
 
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TheNewWorldMan

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You mean like Muslims handle gays in Afghanistan or any other Muslim Nations for that matter! Execution style :eek: furthermore in how they treat all criminal acts....maybe cut your nose and ears off for stating your husbands abusive and raped you!

Yeah, we know that the Islamic world has a rather sizable human rights "mess" to clean up in its own backyard. That's not the point.

The point is that we're America, and we do things differently.
 
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sdmsanjose

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Even a CNN poll shows a majority of Democrats oppose this. Independents oppose it by 70% and Republicans by even more. Only 34% of New Yorkers support the mosque. What other support there is is very weak as well.


Rambot
When I looked at the data "A majority of all political groups polled oppose the mosque. Forty-three percent of Democrats support it and 54 percent say they are opposed. Eighty-two percent of Republicans are against the mosque, as opposed to just 17 percent who support it."


I have made some very strong posts against what Voegelin has stated on other threads, we have butted heads more than once.. However, this is not about Voegelin. His and Rambot’s polls information are what will matter.

All the arguments for and against Obama on this thread will probably not change one opinion. This is just too hot of a topic.

The bottom line is that right or wrong, Obama and any politicians that back him on this issue will suffer at the next elections. This will not be forgotten.
 
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Everlasting33

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Good for him.

Always hail the person taking the unpopular choice of liberty and doing the right thing over the right to score political points.

Actually, I think this is only hurting him. His disapproval rating is high, he is losing independents and many New Yorker's are fed up.

Like others have said, it isn't about a right but rather what the will of the American public. For good or bad, this prevails.
 
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The Lady Kate

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Yeah, we know that the Islamic world has a rather sizable human rights "mess" to clean up in its own backyard. That's not the point.

The point is that we're America, and we do things differently.

Perhaps allhart's point is that America shouldn't be doing things differently.

It's funny, but the more contempt I hear for Islamic countries coming from my Christian bretheren, the more it starts to sound like envy.
 
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The Lady Kate

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Actually, I think this is only hurting him. His disapproval rating is high, he is losing independents and many New Yorker's are fed up.

It's hurting him, but it's good for the country. It's about time we had a president who made unpopular but right decisions.

Like others have said, it isn't about a right but rather what the will of the American public. For good or bad, this prevails.

If the will of the American public is to use the Constitution as toilet paper, then it's a very bad thing for it to prevail... and unless someone, anyone can provide a solid legal reason why this mosque shouldn't be built, I submit that that's exactly what they're doing.
 
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Drekkan85

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Indeed, dare we say it, but Obama is finally being a great LEADER on something. Instead of being a President that follows polls, he's saying "Nope, this isn't right. Following these polls violates the very basis of our Republic. It might not be good for me in the long run, but it's what is needed".
 
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variant

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Actually, I think this is only hurting him. His disapproval rating is high, he is losing independents and many New Yorker's are fed up.

Like others have said, it isn't about a right but rather what the will of the American public. For good or bad, this prevails.

Of course it is hurting him.

Doing the right thing when it is unpopular generally does.

How dare he stand up for some of our most fundamental rights when some unpopular people want to do something unpopular even if it is well within their rights.

He should be applauded.
 
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Everlasting33

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Of course it is hurting him.

Doing the right thing when it is unpopular generally does.

How dare he stand up for some of our most fundamental rights when some unpopular people want to do something unpopular even if it is well within their rights.

He should be applauded.

The right thing? I don't know about that.

"Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., said that while the Muslim community had the right to build the mosque, doing so near the site of the Sept. 11 World Trade Center attack would needlessly offend too many people.
"President Obama is wrong," King said. "It is insensitive and uncaring for the Muslim community to build a mosque in the shadow of Ground Zero.
"The right and moral thing for President Obama to have done was to urge Muslim leaders to respect the families of those who died and move their mosque away from Ground Zero."
Newt Gingrich, a Republican and former House speaker, also condemned the president's comments.
Gingrich said the proposed mosque and community center would be a symbol of Muslim "triumphalism" and building it near the site of the 2001 attack "would be like putting a Nazi sign next to the Holocaust museum."

Nation & World | Obama tempers stand on N.Y. mosque | Seattle Times Newspaper

Of course America defends fundamental rights and this is important. But, are there not other factors involved here? Does this not question the motives of those who want this built? What about the funding for this mosque?

It's rather puzzling when this Islamic leader is so persistent with this construction when so many American lives, due to Islamic extremists, were killed just two blocks away.

Insulting and insensitive.

Furthermore, did not the Mosque leader state that America was somewhat involved with the attacks on 9/11?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-TUqnipuMA
 
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kiwimac

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Some of those who died were Muslim, should they be ignored? The proposed centre will be for many things but will contain a prayer room. Moreover this has nothing to do with triumphalism.
 
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Everlasting33

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Some of those who died were Muslim, should they be ignored? The proposed centre will be for many things but will contain a prayer room. Moreover this has nothing to do with triumphalism.

Why do you think they want this Mosque built so close to ground zero? This mosque leader supports Sharia law and wishes for America to be Shaira compliant. And this is what you want 2 blocks away from where close to 3,000 American lives were lost?

Research Sharia law. Obama, once again, is on the wrong side.
 
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variant

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The right thing? I don't know about that.

Of course America defends fundamental rights and this is important. But, are there not other factors involved here? Does this not question the motives of those who want this built? What about the funding for this mosque?

I just don't consider peoples feelings when thinking about other peoples rights. Rights are rights because they are what people are entitled to regardless of the feelings of others.

Peoples motives when building religious buildings is actually the last thing I consider ever, being a non-believer, just about everyone who builds any religious building has some animosity towards me, but they are well within their rights to build them and promote as they wish.

So, supporting someones right to build is the right thing to do, even if you disagree with doing it.

It's rather puzzling with this Islamic leader is so persistent with this construction when so many American lives, due to Islamic extremists, just two blocks away.

Insulting and insensitive.

Furthermore, did not the Mosque leader state that America was somewhat involved with the attacks on 9/11?

People generally get pretty obstinate when you start telling them what they should and should not do, especially if you tell them they should not do something they are entirely entitled to do.

He has a right to his property, his religion, and his opinions.
 
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Everlasting33

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I just don't consider peoples feelings when thinking about other peoples rights. Rights are rights because they are what people are entitled to regardless of the feelings of others.

Peoples motives when building religious buildings is actually the last thing I consider ever, being a non-believer, just about everyone who builds any religious building has some animosity towards me, but they are well within their rights to build them and promote as they wish.

So, supporting someones right to build is the right thing to do, even if you disagree with doing it.



People generally get pretty obstinate when you start telling them what they should and should not do, especially if you tell them they should not do something they are entirely entitled to do.

He has a right to his property, his religion, and his opinions.

No one is denying they have a right to build this mosque in downtown NYC. Knowing a little about the leader, imam feisal abdul rauf, it would seem that some of his teachings and beliefs are opposed to American law. Like I said in another post, where is imam feisal abdul rauf getting the funding for this project?

In most cases, I would agree that is not about feelings but sometimes, especially when American lives are involved, its all about the heart of the American public. This needs to win here.
 
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kiwimac

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Why do you think they want this Mosque built so close to ground zero? This mosque leader supports Sharia law and wishes for America to be Shaira compliant. And this is what you want 2 blocks away from where close to 3,000 American lives were lost?

Research Sharia law. Obama, once again, is on the wrong side.

I am quite well aware of what Sharia is. However the mere desire for America to be Sharia compliant does not remove a person's rights. There are many Christians who would like the US to be a 'Christian Nation", do their rights disappear or are their motives impugned because of it?
 
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