Obama/Biden defense secretary. Joe Biden has been wrong on nearly every foreign policy

[hislegacy]

Gates Stands By Statement That Biden Has Been Wrong On Nearly Every Major Foreign Policy Question

Gates Stands By Statement That Biden Has Been Wrong On Nearly Every Major Foreign Policy Question

 

[Arcangl86]

Has he said anything else about this since then?

 

[hislegacy]

Has he said anything else about this since then?

I can find a retraction. Can you?

 

[dqhall]

Rick Gates is a convicted criminal who once worked for Trump. He had connections with Putin’s Russia. Russia invaded their neighbor Ukraine resulting in thousands of deaths and tens of thousands of casualties.
Rick Gates, former Trump campaign aide, sentenced to 45 days in jail

 

[hislegacy]

Rick Gates is a convicted criminal who once worked for Trump. He had connections with Putin’s Russia. Russia invaded their neighbor Ukraine resulting in thousands of deaths and tens of thousands of casualties.
Rick Gates, former Trump campaign aide, sentenced to 45 days in jail

What does that have to to with ROBERT GATES?

For those who will read the link:

Robert Gates, who served as defense secretary for the Obama administration, paused for a moment and said "I don't know" in an interview Sunday when asked if he thinks former VP Joe Biden would be a good president.

 

[hedrick]

Here’s a detailed article on what is behind the conflict between Gates and Biden. PolitiFact - Checking Robert Gates' criticism of Vice President Joe Biden's foreign policy record Gates statements about Biden’s votes seem mostly accurate, though with some exceptions. I think it’s arguable who was right. I think Biden was right at least part of the time. I note that Trump is also unenthusiastic about American military involvement abroad. It’s not clear that’s much difference between him and a Biden on that score. There would definitely be difference in other aspects of foreign policy, such as working with allies and cozying up to dictators.

China is a major concern. Trump is right in identifying it. But we need a broader plan, involving our allies. Disengaging from the world leaves China as de facto leader. Tariffs aren’t going to solve the problem.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I wonder how far the OP's appeal to Bob Gates' authority extends. If we're to take seriously Bob Gates' opinion on Biden, are we to also take seriously his opinion on Trump?

Like, when he called Trump a "divider" who does so "consciously."
Trump is a 'divider,' says Robert Gates, former CIA director and defense secretary

Or how about back in 2016 when he castigated Trump in the WSJ:
Sizing Up the Next Commander-in-Chief

When it comes to credibility problems, though, Donald Trump is in a league of his own. He has expressed support for building a wall between the U.S. and Mexico; for torturing suspected terrorists and killing their families; for Mr. Putin’s dictatorial leadership and for Saddam Hussein’s nonexistent successes against terrorism. He also has said he is for using defense spending by NATO allies as the litmus test on whether the U.S. will keep its treaty commitments to them; for withdrawing U.S. troops from Europe, South Korea and Japan and for the latter two developing nuclear weapons—a highly destabilizing prospect.

Mr. Trump has been cavalier about the use of nuclear weapons. He has a record of insults to servicemen, their families and the military, which he called a “disaster.” He has declared our senior military leaders “reduced to rubble” and “embarrassing our country” and has suggested that, if elected, he will purge them—an unprecedented and unconscionable threat. As of late, he appears to be rethinking some of these positions but he has yet to learn that when a president shoots off his mouth, there are no do-overs.

Mr. Trump is also willfully ignorant about the rest of the world, about our military and its capabilities, and about government itself. He disdains expertise and experience while touting his own—such as his claim that he knows more about ISIS than America’s generals. He has no clue about the difference between negotiating a business deal and negotiating with sovereign nations.

All of the presidents I served were strong personalities with strongly held views about the world. But each surrounded himself with independent-minded, knowledgeable and experienced advisers who would tell the president what he needed to hear, not what he wanted to hear. Sometimes presidents would take their advice, sometimes not. But they always listened.

The world we confront is too perilous and too complex to have as president a man who believes he, and he alone, has all the answers and has no need to listen to anyone. In domestic affairs, there are many checks on what a president can do; in national security there are few constraints. A thin-skinned, temperamental, shoot-from-the-hip and lip, uninformed commander-in-chief is too great a risk for America.

I understand the broad anger and frustration against political leaders in both parties. I have written about my disgust as secretary of defense as I watched politicians repeatedly place re-election above the nation’s best interests. Polls make clear that most Americans are dissatisfied with the two major party candidates for president. But as I used to say in the Pentagon, we are where we are—not where we might wish to be. We have to make a decision. Perhaps the debates, if the candidates focus on substance rather than personal attacks, will clarify the choice.

Mrs. Clinton has time before the election to address forthrightly her trustworthiness, to reassure people about her judgment, to demonstrate her willingness to stake out one or more positions on national security at odds with her party’s conventional wisdom, and to speak beyond generalities about how she would deal with China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, the Middle East—and international trade. Whether and how she addresses these issues will, I believe, affect how many people vote—including me.

At least on national security, I believe Mr. Trump is beyond repair. He is stubbornly uninformed about the world and how to lead our country and government, and temperamentally unsuited to lead our men and women in uniform. He is unqualified and unfit to be commander-in-chief.

[/quote]

 

[jgarden]

James Mattis Denounces Trump as Threat to Constitution ...
www.theatlantic.com › politics › archive › 2020/06 › ja...
Jun 3, 2020 - James Mattis, the esteemed Marine general who resigned as secretary of defense in December 2018 to protest Donald Trump's Syria policy, ...

President Donald Trump a threat to Constitution: Former ...
CNBC Television
YouTube - 2020

Former Defense Secretary Mattis Issues Stunning Rebuke Of ...
www.npr.org › 2020/06/04 › former-defense-secretary-m...
Jun 4, 2020 - Jim Mattis, who resigned as Trump's defense secretary nearly a year and a half ago, accuses the president of dividing the nation and warns ...

Mattis Accuses Trump of Dividing the Nation in a Time of Crisis
www.nytimes.com › U.S. › Politics
Jun 3, 2020 - “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people — does not even pretend to try,” Mr. Mattis wrote ...

Why Mattis' verdict on Trump is devastating - CNN - CNN.com
www.cnn.com › mattis-thinks-trump-risks-america-bergen
Jun 4, 2020 - Former US Defense Secretary Jim Mattis -- who President Donald Trump has compared to one of his heroes, General George Patton

Read Mattis' statement on Trump's handling of nationwide ...
www.cnbc.com › 2020/06/03 › read-mattis-statement-on-t...
Jun 3, 2020 - Mattis, a four-star U.S. Marine Corps General, served as President Donald Trump's 26th Secretary of Defense from 2017 to 2018.

Mattis breaks silence and tears into Trump: 'He tries to divide us'
www.cnbc.com › 2020/06/03 › former-defense-secretary-...
Jun 3, 2020 - Former Secretary of Defense James Mattis ripped into his former boss President Donald Trump in a scathing Wednesday night statement.

Mattis: Former defense secretary slams Trump as threat to US ...
www.usatoday.com › news › politics › 2020/06/03 › m...
Jun 3, 2020 - Former Defense Secretary James Mattis blasted Trump as failing to unite the country and militarizing the response to protests of George Floyd's ...

Most revealing quotes on Trump from Mattis in Bob Woodward ...
www.businessinsider.com › Military & Defense › Politics
Retired Marine Corps Gen. Jim Mattis, who served as President Donald Trump's defense secretary before resigning, has largely kept his thoughts on

*****************************************************************************************************************************************
Obama/Biden defense secretary. Joe Biden has been wrong on nearly every foreign policy

How bizarre that a Trump supporter would introduce Secretary of Defense Gates' differences with VP Biden as a topic for discussion given the public rebukes that this President has received from Secretary James Mattis!

Its one thing for the Vice President and the Secretary of Defense to have differences of opinion over foreign policy, but its quite another when the Secretary of Defense accuses the President of
1) deliberately trying to divide the nation,
2) a threat to the Constitution
3) "unfit" for office resulting in the Secretary of Defense having discussions with the Director of National Intelligence concerning the possible need for a "Collective Intervention!"

 

[The Barbarian]

Looking at Gates' statements on Trump and on Biden, if I assumed that Gates' assessments are correct, I would have to conclude that I could only vote for Biden.

Would Biden be a good president?
"I don't know."

Would Trump be a good president?
"At least on national security, I believe Mr. Trump is beyond repair. He is stubbornly uninformed about the world and how to lead our country and government, and temperamentally unsuited to lead our men and women in uniform. He is unqualified and unfit to be commander-in-chief."

 

[hislegacy]

Note: deflecting the attention to Trump is a sign of surrender to the facts of the OP

 

[The Barbarian]

Note: deflecting the attention to Trump is a sign of surrender to the facts of the OP

I'm just noting the choice, according to Gates.
"At least on national security, I believe Mr. Trump is beyond repair. He is stubbornly uninformed about the world and how to lead our country and government, and temperamentally unsuited to lead our men and women in uniform. He is unqualified and unfit to be commander-in-chief."

Citing Gates about fitness to be president, puts his opinions on the table. If you want to say that Gates is not a very reliable source for that, you could say so. But it looks like he understands Trump pretty well.

Biden not so much, it seems. Asked if Biden would be a good president, he responds that he doesn't know.

 

[jgarden]

Note: deflecting the attention to Trump is a sign of surrender to the facts of the OP

Obama/Biden defense secretary. Joe Biden has been wrong on nearly every foreign policy

After introducing a thread based solely on the opinions of former Secretary of Defense Gates, the OP is now asserting that the debate is to be limited to only those "cherry-picked" quotes that serve his purpose!

The OP now wants to muzzle the testimony of his own "expert" witness when it comes to the more relevant foreign policy decisions of the current President, whose own Secretary of State Mattis considers him to be "unfit" to hold office, a threat to the Constitution and a danger to the nation!

 

[hislegacy]

Note: deflecting the attention to a poster instead of the topic of the thread is a sign of surrender to the facts of the OP

what Mr Gates thinks about Trump doesn’t effect in any way shape or form his thoughts on Biden.

or are you saying he is correct on both, or wrong on both? It doesn’t really matter.

Statement: Mr G says mr B was wrong the majority of time in his 47 years in leadership. Including eight years as VP

Reply: Oh, but Mr G said Mr T was no good.

How does that dispute the original statement?

Answer: It doesn’t, the best you could hope for is enough of a deflection so people wouldn’t notice the first statement.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Note: deflecting the attention to Trump is a sign of surrender to the facts of the OP

No, it isn't.

what Mr Gates thinks about Trump doesn’t effect in any way shape or form his thoughts on Biden.

You're right, it doesn't affect Gate's thoughts on Biden. However, if I'm to decide how best to incorporate Gates' opinion into my own thinking, it's best to take all of Gates' comments into consideration, is it not?

So, on one hand, we have a guy who's been "wrong on nearly every foreign policy" issue; and on the other hand, we have a guy who's "beyond repair" and "stubbornly uninformed."

I think I'll go with the guy who's just "wrong."

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Note: deflecting the attention to Trump is a sign of surrender to the facts of the OP

So you bring up the issue that Gates says Biden is bad , but when people point out that he also says Trump is worse you claim victory because we are not supposed to say that part ?

Funny.

 

[jgarden]

Note: deflecting the attention to a poster instead of the topic of the thread is a sign of surrender to the facts of the OP

what Mr Gates thinks about Trump doesn’t effect in any way shape or form his thoughts on Biden.

or are you saying he is correct on both, or wrong on both? It doesn’t really matter.

Statement: Mr G says mr B was wrong the majority of time in his 47 years in leadership. Including eight years as VP

Reply: Oh, but Mr G said Mr T was no good.

How does that dispute the original statement?

Answer: It doesn’t, the best you could hope for is enough of a deflection so people wouldn’t notice the first statement.

Does anyone seriously believe that the OP would have any interest in the opinions of former Secretary of Defense Gates unless Joe Biden was the current Democratic Presidential Nominee for the 2020 Election?

The American electorate is being asked to make a choice between 2 individuals, so this thread serves no useful purpose when the OP insists that it limit Gates' opinions to just one of the two - while giving his own candidate of choice a "free pass!"

 

[hislegacy]

So you bring up the issue that Gates says Biden is bad , but when people point out that he also says Trump is worse you claim victory because we are not supposed to say that part ?

Funny.

Trying to keep the thread on topic. Gates comment on Biden not being right, is not claiming victory about anything.

but it is a hope.

The never Trumpers don’t seem to like it, so deflection is their only tool because Mr Biden’s record is so poor.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Trying to keep the thread on topic.

That is about as useful as just retweeting some of Trump’s lies and when people point out that they are lies you say that’s off topic.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

this thread serves no useful purpose when the OP insists that it limit its criticism to just one individual - while giving his candidate of choice a "free pass!"

Pretty much this.

 

[jgarden]

Trying to keep the thread on topic. Gates comment on Biden not being right, is not claiming victory about anything.

but it is a hope.

The never Trumpers don’t seem to like it, so deflection is their only tool because Mr Biden’s record is so poor.

By adding "Trump for President in 2020" to the end of every post, the OP is not only telegraphing his personal biases, but of his own accord introducing the name of of the one individual into the conversation that he is so vociferously arguing that the rest of us ignore!