Obama and marriage between Gays and Lesbians.

[JohnMarsten]

One thing that is certain is that men are much more likely than women to be paedophiles, so let's deny them the right to get married, adopt and work with children.

Keep our children safe from men!

not really funny...

I must admit that I dont believe that gay people necessarily have to be paedophiles, but then I presume that paedophiles have to be gay, or wouldnt you say so?

 

[ThinkFreeDom]

not really funny...

It was meant as satire to prove a point.

I must admit that I dont believe that gay people necessarily have to be paedophiles, but then I presume that paedophiles have to be gay, or wouldnt you say so?

No. Paedophiles are sexually attracted to children. That is separate from being gay.

 

[JohnMarsten]

It was meant as satire to prove a point.

Even as a satire, it wasnt funny...

It would have been funnier if you said something like

All paedophiles have consumed bread during the last three days before they committed the act, we should ban the consumption of bread...

 

[SaraJarvis]

One thing that is certain is that men are much more likely than women to be paedophiles, so let's deny them the right to get married, adopt and work with children.

Keep our children safe from men!

Oh, absolutely! I mean, all data points to it, so we can only come to the informed and educated opinion that every man on this planet has a small part of him that wishes to molest children.

 

[ThinkFreeDom]

It was meant as satire to prove a point.

Even as a satire, it wasnt funny...

I never claimed it was funny. Ironic maybe, but not funny.

 

[SaraJarvis]

Sex is indeed pleasurable, and it is a pleasure reserved for marriage. It has been taken out of its proper place, and has been abused because of the pleasure it brings. Either way it goes, many a problem would not be in existence if sex were left between a Husband and his Wife.



Those who can't or those who won't? I have no problem with supporting people who aren't able to support themselves, so long as I'm able to support my family as well.



Again, people say "illusionist" and that makes it all better. I don't go there. You can't explain away walking on water as simply an illusion. But of course I don't foresee the man just coming forward like "Oh yeah, I'm in league with the devil".



The flaw in that logic however is that there are many other prophecies in Isaiah which came to pass.



War is completely unnecessary. I agree with you on this 100% And God, for a time, chose Israel to not only be a light to the world, but also a sword against His enemies. How God opts to execute Judgment is His prerogative.



Like I said, sin is like a cancer. Adultery does make you a criminal, for the law commands you to not be one. Thus if you violate the law, you are a criminal. And a whole hosts of issues can be introduced through unfaithfulness. Our world is in part, the way it is, because we advocate unfaithfulness on one hand, and honor in the other. And working on Sunday is just fine. "Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work...". Sunday is day 1 of 7. A regular working day. And the reason why the world still continues on is because God is still working to save people. The thing is that people try to make it so cut in dry when it comes to God's dealing with Israel in the desert. "You sinned, you died". But that's not the way it was at all. God is merciful and loving and desires the sinner to repent so that they won't be lost.



I do believe that people can adapt to their environments, and changes can take place from generation to generation. I don't believe that has anything to do with "evolution". The quote you used spoke of "natural selection", which I believe is their substitute for "God". In other words, God designed our DNA, so anything that happens in regards to that, is by design.



I've discovered the one true thing that matters. God He is the Creator of all there is and has promised me an eternity with Him so long as I'm faithful till the end. Men lie. They deceive to forward their own agendas. God however is not man that He should lie. I'm quite comfortable with waiting to hear from the Master Teacher personally.



The same way there was a "mass of something" here before creation. Genesis says "the earth was void and without form, and the Spirit of the Lord moved upon the face of the waters". There's a pattern here actually if you look close. Something is there, and the God gives it form. The sun has a distinct form which it received on the 4th day. It's substance was what was created on day one.

But it's a small selection of people who are going to actually do that. If we really want sex to be safe, then we should go about informing the younger generation correctly, instead of brushing it under the carpet as a taboo subject.

Those who can't. Again, it's a very small selection of people who 'won't' go to work. More government lies attempting to make the poor appear as scum who deliberately sponge off benefits because they don't want to go to work.

Somehow, I think it's simply more likely that he's just a talented celebrity making a name for himself with clever tricks.

Yes, but there is no proof that these prophecies haven't simply been written in after the event.

Adultery is not a crime. Not in the same way that theft is. I'm not an advocate for infidelity or anything, but it most certainly isn't a crime. Would you rather we murdered those who were unfaithful, as the bible commands? The bible says that those who work on a Sunday should be put to death, though. Why do people reject that, yet accept other rules?

How do you know, though? God doesn't mention DNA and such in the bible. That is purely guesswork. It simply says that he created Adam, and then Eve from Adam's rib, which is scientifically impossible. Science, however, has proven the existence of DNA, and you don't deny that, although you don't believe other things that science has to offer. Why is that? If everything was created by God, then he must have created cancer, too. Why would he do that? Why would he give even those who worship him horrible diseases?

Why would scientists lie, though? These people have dedicated their lives to discovering the truth. They have no agenda aside from truth.

Ah, but does the bible actually say that? Again, that is only guesswork. There can be no light without the sun, and the sun wasn't created until the 4th day...so where did the light come from?

 

[SaraJarvis]

I disagree with you, but thats actually not so important where marriage comes from (I believe God has institutionalized marriage).

What is important here is the idea that gay marriage shouldnt take place in church!

What is the church? it is the body of Christ. So we have to abide by a certain code. Christ's code...

So if gays want to marry... well, many societies are opening up their gates towards this idea, giving them marriage... on a secular level... a marriage sacntioned by the state... and if the state is open to this...

Church life is quite different... personally I would leave (as a christian) a denomination that allowed gay marriage...

If gays want to marry in a church... let them establish their own church... with their own 'version' of God and of Christ... or better another god... or they could take one of the more prominent gays and declare them their savior or object of worship...

One way or the other, a church cannot sanction gay marriage and stay true to Christ at the same time... remember one cannot serve two masters...

Why not? Christians stole (a sin) marriage from the Pagans. They added their own rules to something that wasn't theirs to begin with, and now they demand that everyone stick to these rules no matter how corrupt they are.

 

[Stryder06]

But it's a small selection of people who are going to actually do that. If we really want sex to be safe, then we should go about informing the younger generation correctly, instead of brushing it under the carpet as a taboo subject.

The reason why the selection is small is because people enjoy sin. Education won't change people's decisions especially when you're in the heat of the moment, or perhaps intoxicated a bit. And even if everyone practiced safe sex, it wouldn't address issues of the heart.

Those who can't. Again, it's a very small selection of people who 'won't' go to work. More government lies attempting to make the poor appear as scum who deliberately sponge off benefits because they don't want to go to work.

Trust me, at least in my neck of the woods, more people opt to not work. I know someone who can get a 4 bedroom home through government assistance that cost less than half of what I pay in rent for a 700ft sq ft apartment. I believe it should be simple. Get paid what you deserve for what you do.

Somehow, I think it's simply more likely that he's just a talented celebrity making a name for himself with clever tricks.

If only. Seen the brother walk on water. Seen him go from the bottom of a 30 or so story building straight to the top in the time it took someone to remove a plastic bag from his body. Either that dude has 4 identical brothers, or he's more than an illusionist.

Yes, but there is no proof that these prophecies haven't simply been written in after the event.

The proof is in the prophecy. As I said, Daniel wrote of the rise and fall of 4 empires - Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and than Rome. Each empire had a metal associated with it that decreased in value but increased in strength. I could also hit you with the fact that several things concerning the RCC were prophesied in the bible.

Adultery is not a crime. Not in the same way that theft is. I'm not an advocate for infidelity or anything, but it most certainly isn't a crime. Would you rather we murdered those who were unfaithful, as the bible commands?

Sin is sin. A violation of the law of God makes you a criminal. And again, mercy was allotted to the transgressor. That's what the sacrificial service was for. And it wasn't murder at that time. It was capital punishment. Of course now we're no longer under a Theocracy, and as such, we are admonished to live by the rules of those who govern us.

The bible says that those who work on a Sunday should be put to death, though. Why do people reject that, yet accept other rules?

Can you show me this passage where the bible says to put people to death who work on Sundays ?

How do you know, though? God doesn't mention DNA and such in the bible. That is purely guesswork. It simply says that he created Adam, and then Eve from Adam's rib...

Because God is the Author of life. If our bodies do something, it's because He programmed them to do that. The bible doesn't have to speak about DNA. It establishes God as Creator. That's all it needs to say.

which is scientifically impossible.

God called everything that is into existence from nothing. He formed man from the dust of the earth. There is nothing impossible for Him, least of all creating Eve from Adam's rib

Science, however, has proven the existence of DNA, and you don't deny that, although you don't believe other things that science has to offer. Why is that? If everything was created by God, then he must have created cancer, too. Why would he do that? Why would he give even those who worship him horrible diseases?

Cancer is a result of sin, which is a result of disobedience on man's part. I don't have an issue with science in and of itself. Science is a tool, and like any tool, it can be used for good when wielded properly, or it can be used for evil.

Why would scientists lie, though? These people have dedicated their lives to discovering the truth. They have no agenda aside from truth.

This situation goes deeper than anything you'll ever learn about. If science is really about truth why is evolution taught as fact when it's still only theory? Why is it improper to teach creationism, from a scientific standpoint, using the complexity of life to prove the work of a Master Builder? I'm not saying that everyone who works in that field is out to "get us". I'm saying that there are many who have accepted a lie, and others who orchestrate it.

Ah, but does the bible actually say that? Again, that is only guesswork. There can be no light without the sun, and the sun wasn't created until the 4th day...so where did the light come from?

Yes the bible does say that. "Let there be light". That's the substance. The sun is nothing more than a large mass of fire. It has a particular shape, one that it received on the 4th day when God formed it. Again, it's just like with the earth. The planet was here already, but it was void and without form. God gave it form and populated it over the course of six days. The mass that would become he sun was created on day one. It was given shape on day four.

 

[Stryder06]

Why not? Christians stole (a sin) marriage from the Pagans. They added their own rules to something that wasn't theirs to begin with, and now they demand that everyone stick to these rules no matter how corrupt they are.

This is incorrect. The idea that something didn't exist until after a known record of it can be dated, is a fallacy. There were only two people in the beginning. Adam and Eve were husband and wife. All mankind stems from these two individuals, and these individuals, were the title to have existed at that time, were the first "Christians".

Those who would become "pagan" were the children of Cain, a people who disowned their Creator.

 

[SaraJarvis]

Stryder, I'll reply to the rest of your post later tonight, have to get some bits sorted out, but for now here is the scripture I was speaking about:

"Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 31:15).

"'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people." (Exodus 31:14).

"For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death." (Exodus 35:2).

"Six days do your work, but on the seventh day do not work, so that your ox and your donkey may rest and the slave born in your household, and the alien as well, may be refreshed." (Exodus 23:12). [This one isn't talking about death, but appears to be offering some casual racism and advocating slavery.]

 

[asiyreh]

Yes, but there is no proof that these prophecies haven't simply been written in after the event

Have you ever heard of the Dead sea scrolls Sara?

The claim you have made above was often made by those who rejected the reliability of scriptural prophecy until in 1947 the dead sea scrolls were found and accurately dated to 1100 AD.

This was confirmed using a very specific and accurate ink dating method. As well as the usual "scientific" dating methods. The dead Sea scrolls contained all the books of the Old Testament [prophecies and all] with the exception of the book of Esther.

Unfortunately for you my skeptical friend the claim that " there is no proof that these prophecies haven't simply been written in after the event" is simply not accepted by any credible historians.... anymore

 

[ThinkFreeDom]

Have you ever heard of the Dead sea scrolls Sara?

The claim you have made above was often made by those who rejected the reliability of scriptural prophecy until in 1947 the dead sea scrolls were found and accurately dated to 1100 AD.

I'm afraid that is simply not true. The dead sea scrolls are from (they think) between 700 BCE and 65 CE. Do you mean B.C.?

Unfortunately for you my skeptical friend the claim that " there is no proof that these prophecies haven't simply been written in after the event" is simply not accepted by any credible historians.... anymore

Again that is just not true.

 

[asiyreh]

I'm afraid that is simply not true. The dead sea scrolls are from (they think) between 700 BCE and 65 CE.

Opps I'm a muppet. Mixed up my ADs with my BCs - Meh=n00b

Lol soz

K I'll take your date and raise you...

The Scrolls are for the most part, written in Hebrew, but there are many written in Aramaic. Aramaic was the common language of the Jews of Palestine for the last two centuries B.C. and of the first two centuries A.D. The discovery of the Scrolls has greatly enhanced our knowledge of these two languages. In addition, there are a few texts written in Greek.

My over all point is still correct.

and i'll do some more research on the ink dating tomorrow... must sleep

 

[ThinkFreeDom]

The proof is in the prophecy. As I said, Daniel wrote of the rise and fall of 4 empires - Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and than Rome. Each empire had a metal associated with it that decreased in value but increased in strength.

Predicting that empires will fall is not really a prophecy, but a fact of history. It has been known since empires existed, about 1400 years before Daniel made his prophecy, that empires rise and fall. The first known one also happened to be in the same neighbourhood.

This is proof of nothing but having read/listened to some history. Note that he doesn't name any of the empires that were to come after his life? He speaks in code so that the broadest possible range of interpretations can be made.

He is simply using fortune tellers' tricks, like James Van Praagh and Nostradamus.

 

[SaraJarvis]

Have you ever heard of the Dead sea scrolls Sara?

The claim you have made above was often made by those who rejected the reliability of scriptural prophecy until in 1947 the dead sea scrolls were found and accurately dated to 1100 AD.

This was confirmed using a very specific and accurate ink dating method. As well as the usual "scientific" dating methods. The dead Sea scrolls contained all the books of the Old Testament [prophecies and all] with the exception of the book of Esther.

Unfortunately for you my skeptical friend the claim that " there is no proof that these prophecies haven't simply been written in after the event" is simply not accepted by any credible historians.... anymore

Yep, ThinkFreeDom is right there - the dates as far as I remember were between 700 BCE and 65 CE.

Cyrus was around 600 BC or 576 BC.

 

[Stryder06]

Stryder, I'll reply to the rest of your post later tonight, have to get some bits sorted out, but for now here is the scripture I was speaking about:

"Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 31:15).

"'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people." (Exodus 31:14).

"For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death." (Exodus 35:2).

"Six days do your work, but on the seventh day do not work, so that your ox and your donkey may rest and the slave born in your household, and the alien as well, may be refreshed." (Exodus 23:12). [This one isn't talking about death, but appears to be offering some casual racism and advocating slavery.]

I do so appreciate your response

Now, if you can kindly show me where it says Sunday work is punishable by death, I'd be ever so grateful

In case you're going - "What is he talking about? I just showed it to Him", the Sabbath isn't Sunday. It's Saturday. The road that explains why most people consider it to be Sunday is filled with prophecy

 

[Pythons]

Well by your logic allowing them to marry might be the best thing for homophobes like you, because they feel so persecuted by society that they force themselves into heterosexual marriages and procreate. Like George Rekers and Marcus Bachmann.

I'm not a homophobe - just looking at this logically, even from a perspective outside of religion.....
...Same sex orientation is a detrimental mutation to species homo sapien.
...In fact, there can be no worse mutation as it doesn't allow for perpetuation of the species.

So let them marry one another and let nature 'weed' them out as you so charitably put it.

I'm 100% for homosexuals who want their buggery 'certified' to be extended the benefits OF marriage...
....Same as the Justice you cited previously.
....I simply want them to call it something else.

Yes, Nature does weed them out - that's why a man who wants to bugger other men....
...Is able to find another man who wants to be buggered by a man.
...It's Evolutions way of protecting species homo sapien by preventing species gradation via buggerites.

 

[ThinkFreeDom]

I'm not a homophobe - just looking at this logically, even from a perspective outside of religion.....
...Same sex orientation is a detrimental mutation to species homo sapien.
...In fact, there can be no worse mutation as it doesn't allow for perpetuation of the species.

Well, it has always existed and here we are.

I'm 100% for homosexuals who want their buggery 'certified' to be extended the benefits OF marriage...
....Same as the Justice you cited previously.
....I simply want them to call it something else.

Well, if religious people want to invent their own version of the civil institution of marriage that is fine. We will call it marriage though.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Well, it has always existed and here we are.



Well, if religious people want to invent their own version of the civil institution of marriage that is fine. We will call it marriage though.

religious people want to invent...???

the institution of marriage was never between gays during the course of history... it is quite new...

Have you ever thought that you have been brainwashed?

I mean look at society! do you really believe that your ideas are your own? would you stand up for gay marriage if famous people, politicians and stuff wouldnt be in favor of it?

Personally the very idea of gayizm is disgusting for me (not the person involved, though)... and like pythons pointed out, it is quite unnatural, why cant you accept it... and de-manipulate your mind...

I mean look at society, you have obese people and you have anorectics, both is unhealthy and unnatural. Can we say that there is a norm in between? Same goes for marriage and relationships with men and women in the middle... and same sex stuff being out of balance...

 

[ThinkFreeDom]

Personally the very idea of gayizm is disgusting for me (not the person involved, though)... and like pythons pointed out, it is quite unnatural, why cant you accept it... and de-manipulate your mind...
.

Now I know you are joking. Gayizm? De-manipulate? You have been laughing at me all along.

Homosexual sex exists in all human societies and always has. It has been recorded in many animal species, and probably exists in all. If 'de-manipulating' (sic) my mind means ignoring the huge body of scientific evidence in front of me in favour of an Iron Age tribal religion then no, I can't.

Gayizm?