Obama Administration to Severely Wounded Vets: Suicide is Painless!

[AMDG]

Of course and you do I suppose?

Well, it's not Indian care (substandard at best and "don't get sick after June when the funding stops") and it's not Military care (waits, denials and don't get sick after Sept-Oct when the funding there "winds down", and it's not the VA (similar to Military care), and it's not Medicare (covers only 80% of the costs and there are restrictions) and it's not Medicaid (many doctors won't even take the low compensation that the medical coupons allow.) What does that leave as the best health care? The private care that most (80%) have and want to keep. Why destroy what is good and replace it with what is only fair (at a high cost too)? Reform to decrease costs (tort reform and make it possible for people to buy insurance interstate--that way they get just what they need for the lowest price.)

 

[fated]

It's not functioning... that's the point... If the US heath care goes to pot, where are they going to go now for good care when their own system fails them?

Doctors who don't accept insurance in the US. Or those that start up clinics you can't go to if you don't pay upfront or have insurance just for their services. Or they'll hire an eminent physician to make a visit.

Anyway, socializing it makes it less pluralistic. Even the strictest don't rid the system of pluralism, as if that would be a right goal. I read an article... something like 17% of Brits have health insurance, probably to cover treatments not covered by the government. That isn't too bad, I suppose, but it appears to be bad for low end jobs.

 

[Fantine]

The private care that most (80%) have and want to keep.

It's 60%, not 80%.

And, despite the lies of yellow journalists, conservative talk show hosts, and conservative bloggers, under the Obama plan those with private insurance can keep their private insurance.

 

[AMDG]

But how can a person make an educated decision about what to put in his/her living will unless he knows exactly what his options are in certain situations?

Follow what the Church states? Generally, hydration/nutrition is not extraordinary care which can morally be refused.

IMO this is not a decision for any healthcare worker or even a beaureaucrat (spelling) or someone who sees the cost benefits from having one less patient to care for, or a fragile depressed person being nudged toward doing away with himself. This decision is for ones spiritual advisor and one's attorney.




]

 

[fated]

It's 60%, not 80%.

And, despite the lies of yellow journalists, conservative talk show hosts, and conservative bloggers, under the Obama plan those with private insurance can keep their private insurance.

Nah, the reform changes their plans, and the competition will also change these plans. If it didn't change their plans, then why call it reform?

So, anyway, while I agree with most of the changes, I'm not going to pretend that rhetoric is truly accurate. That is, I can keep my plan, as long as the insurance company offers it.

 

[Fantine]

Follow what the Church states? Generally, hydration/nutrition is not extraordinary care which can morally be refused.

IMO this is not a decision for any healthcare worker or even a beaureaucrat (spelling) or someone who sees the cost benefits from having one less patient to care for, or a fragile depressed person being nudged toward doing away with himself. This decision is for ones spiritual advisor and one's attorney.

And if a person goes to end of life counseling and states their religious and philosophical beliefs, that will be part of his plan.

But, as the statistics showed, it seemed as if, after the Terry Schiavo case, more people were concerned about being kept alive for years with feeding tubes than there were people who were concerned about being denied them.

And maybe that means that more people are concerned that they will be forced to have more care than they want if they are truly terminally, irreversibly ill, not less care.

 

[CaDan]

For those supporting the purchase of insurance across state lines, do you support the repeal of the McCarran-Ferguson Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1011, and the reinstatement of the holding in United States v. South-Eastern Underwriters, 322 U.S. 533 (1944)?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Jim,

Why do we need to know about the options...? what are those options..? that you can die and we will assist you do that if that's what you want?

It seems as a way of slipping assisted suicide in through a back door.

Obviously, you didn't read the document.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

My father was cared for by the VA, for over 40 years, as a paraplegic. His illness was not service connected.

His care was excellent. Since he entered a nursing home, the VA has relinquished his care to Medicaid. The care he's receiving is good, but
not near as good as the VA was.

From what I've been hearing, the quality of care the VA gives, varies across the states.

Jim

 

[benedictaoo]

Nah, the reform changes their plans, and the competition will also change these plans. If it didn't change their plans, then why call it reform?

So, anyway, while I agree with most of the changes, I'm not going to pretend that rhetoric is truly accurate. That is, I can keep my plan, as long as the insurance company offers it.

If you like you $2000 dollar a month plan- go ahead and keep it. That's what it will cost to insure a family. It costs close to that now.

 

[brinny]

Follow what the Church states? Generally, hydration/nutrition is not extraordinary care which can morally be refused.

IMO this is not a decision for any healthcare worker or even a beaureaucrat (spelling) or someone who sees the cost benefits from having one less patient to care for, or a fragile depressed person being nudged toward doing away with himself. This decision is for ones spiritual advisor and one's attorney.






]

amen.

 

[benedictaoo]

Of course and you do I suppose?

i know what it is to have private health care, HMO's, government run health care and no health care at all-- I been on them all at one point or another and guess which one gives you the best treatment available? private health care. Guess which ones has a list of medicines and treatments that they can give you? Government run. Sometimes what you need isn't on the list so you go with out. Sound familiar to you?

 

[bliz]

Guess which ones has a list of medicines and treatments that they can give you? Government run. Sometimes what you need isn't on the list so you go with out. Sound familiar to you?

That's not the only correct answer. My private health care also limits and regulates which medications they will pay for.

 

[kiwimac]

Not at all. Here in NZ if you wish to have private insurance you certainly can.

 

[CaDan]

Guess which ones has a list of medicines and treatments that they can give you? Government run. Sometimes what you need isn't on the list so you go with out. Sound familiar to you?

This is simply false.

HMOs have prescription drug lists of what is approved and what is not approved for coverage. See, for example: https://www.uhcrivervalley.com/pharmacy/PDL.html

 

[CaDan]

Doctors who don't accept insurance in the US. Or those that start up clinics you can't go to if you don't pay upfront or have insurance just for their services. Or they'll hire an eminent physician to make a visit.

Anyway, socializing it makes it less pluralistic. Even the strictest don't rid the system of pluralism, as if that would be a right goal. I read an article... something like 17% of Brits have health insurance, probably to cover treatments not covered by the government. That isn't too bad, I suppose, but it appears to be bad for low end jobs.

Baloney.

 

[JoabAnias]

My father was cared for by the VA, for over 40 years, as a paraplegic. His illness was not service connected.

His care was excellent. Since he entered a nursing home, the VA has relinquished his care to Medicaid. The care he's receiving is good, but
not near as good as the VA was.

From what I've been hearing, the quality of care the VA gives, varies across the states.

Jim

I think it varies from Dr. to Dr. and facility to facility.

When I was on active duty I saw some very good ones and others who thought I should change.

The problem I am finding is my Dr. doesn't see eye to eye with my pattern of treatment and so is withholding the meds I need.

You don't get to choose which Dr. you see. They assign you one and your stuck with that Dr.

This one I have seems to think I must be living wrong to have such high cholesterol and need to change my life style.

No amount of exercise or eating habits have ever been able to put a dent in it. I tried exercising 3-4 times a week for over an hour and then doing 2 miles after that for a year and nothing for improvement. I have rarely eat more than one meal a day and take all kinds of vitamins and supplements. I don't think she believes me. The most frustrating part is every time I get a new PCP I have to go through this same game with them. I just want my meds and the Dr. refuses to give them to me. What can I do besides complain, request a different Dr. or go to another VA? In the mean time my levels continue to spike and I have been having chest pains.

Whats more responsible of the Dr.?; To force me to conform to what I have tried and didn't work despite already exercising nearly an hour a day on my job by withholding meds and making me worry about it or giving me the meds to prevent a heart attack?

Can you see the problem. Since the high cholesterol was first detected in 2005 none of the Dr's I have seen, several on active duty, my PCP back in Maine before moving and the new one here on BCBS has ever withheld the statins and triglyceride meds.

Not only do I feel disrespected by this VA Dr. and treated like an imbecile who doesn't know enough to know my own condition by this time. It's almost as if its being inferred that I am a cholesterol med abuser. Sheesh.

If you try to call them they don't answer or have voice mail. Friday when the Niacin showed up that I know I can't take because in 05 when I tried it the first time I turned into a lobster and burned up on it and they had to take me off it, it was the last straw, and I had to resort to sending a Fax for the Dr. to call me that I am still waiting for. If I don't hear from her Monday or Tuesday I am going up the chain. Still in the meantime I am not getting proper treatment.

Do you have any helpful advice? Besides jogging, which I can't do any more because I have COPD as well. Oh and this Dr. wanted me to retake those tests again, for the 4th time. Do you know how long it takes to get tests done at the VA?

Just to get the regular appt and a blood tests takes about 4-5 hrs of waiting time. Don't get me wrong, I am glad the VA is there and am not knocking them but I wish there were some options with who ones PCP is assigned. Maybe there is and I will find that out if I wind up calling the Advocates this week. If nothing else, there is another VA 9 miles further away but what if its no different?

By the way, there sure seems to be less meds available for the VA Dr.s to prescribe than a civilian PCP. For instance on active I was prescribed achifex for acid and told here that the VA doesn't have that option. My civilian Dr.'s have told me its the best and also that gemfibrosil for tryglicerides sometimes interacts adversely to the statins for LDL's but thats the VA's next option after Niacin which is just mega doses of vitamin B anyway. I know the Dr. is the expert but it is rather insulting to be treated like you know nothing about your own health by one. Where a civilian paid Dr. wants to listen to their patients, a socialized one has no qualms about treating a patient like they know nothing and they know best regardless if they are contradicting the history and test #'s themselves. This is the crux of socialized medicine in a hand basket for me. The patient can know better than the Dr. and have absolutely no control over their treatment. This certainly isn't the scenario I would trust if I was unable to speak for myself in a end of life situation. A living will would be bureaucratically pointless. If this is how vets are treated, how would anyone think socialized know it all Dr.s would be any better. I mean yea, good and bad in the mix always but in socialized medicine there are not choices when time is a factor. I suppose, at least one might be able to switch Dr.'s under the socialized plan but I have seen no guarantee of that yet and it wouldn't surprise me if that was made exceeding difficult because Dr.s would be swamped so you wouldn't be able to get in with anyone else or without a referral. Being trapped under an incompetent Dr. worries me.

 

[bliz]

. I know the Dr. is the expert but it is rather insulting to be treated like you know nothing about your own health by one. Where a civilian paid Dr. wants to listen to their patients, a socialized one has no qualms about treating a patient like they know nothing and they know best regardless if they are contradicting the history and test #'s themselves. This is the crux of socialized medicine in a hand basket for me. The patient can know better than the Dr. and have absolutely no control over their treatment. This certainly isn't the scenario I would trust if I was unable to speak for myself in a end of life situation. A living will would be bureaucratically pointless. If this is how vets are treated, how would anyone think socialized know it all Dr.s would be any better. I mean yea, good and bad in the mix always but in socialized medicine there are not choices when time is a factor. I suppose, at least one might be able to switch Dr.'s under the socialized plan but I have seen no guarantee of that yet and it wouldn't surprise me if that was made exceeding difficult because Dr.s would be swamped so you wouldn't be able to get in with anyone else or without a referral. Being trapped under an incompetent Dr. worries me.

Darlin' - you are giving private medicine way too much credit. I was given a sample of a medication, and it worked great, but my PCP would not pay for it, they would pay for something not nearly as effective. Some private doctors listen to patients, but that's based on how they practice medicine, it is not inherent with the pay structure.

I know what it's like to have medical folks treat you like an idiot. They claim they liked well imformed participatory patients, but not too well informed and, male and female, they don't like it coming from women. These are problems with the medical community, public, private or whatever.

I'm sorry you are having a hard time getting the help you need.

 

[JoabAnias]

Darlin' - you are giving private medicine way too much credit. I was given a sample of a medication, and it worked great, but my PCP would not pay for it, they would pay for something not nearly as effective. Some private doctors listen to patients, but that's based on how they practice medicine, it is not inherent with the pay structure.

I'm not meaning to, It just sounds like I am giving them more credit because I am frustrated with the 180 degree turn around to the VA. I've had HMO's, Aetna, BCBS and the Military insurance -Tricare (which was the best by the way) and the VA over the years. There is good and bad in them all. Co-pays are ridiculous under some or often new drugs aren't even covered for various reasons. But I do find that with the VA (here in Detroit at least) that they don't even offer some of the better meds. At least in my case with Cholesterol, which is basic imo. The pro with the VA is there is no co-pay at all. On active duty I could get a 6 moth supply too. Everyone would love that and to have their meds mailed to them at home but, having taken tricor for the triglycerides that worked so well, I would rather pay a co-pay for something that I know works than to have to fight the system for something that I am not allergic to. For me, that reason and the fact of prohibiting cheaper scripts from Canada that the pharmaceuticals are to greedy to compete with is proof positive of the rationing that results from such policies. Monopolies aren't supposed to be allowed in this country. The government doesn't seem to have a problem with allowing the drug companies from having one though. I think its because of lobbyist kickbacks the same way some Dr.'s push certain drugs because they get kickbacks from the drug company but what do I know. All I know are my experiences with both systems and I prefer the free market by far without question.

I know what it's like to have medical folks treat you like an idiot. They claim they liked well informed participatory patients, but not too well informed and, male and female, they don't like it coming from women. These are problems with the medical community, public, private or whatever.

Yup, I agree, its the same in either venue. I am used to having insurance but even then one has to choose a PCP carefully so as not to have to change Dr.s. In the free market at least the patron has some leverage and some choices of who that Dr. will be. Bad doctors there loose patients or wind up sued. Bad Dr.'s for the socialized side of things like the VA are protected because they work for cheap. It seems they haven't as many incentives to be patient orientated and malpractice isn't in their vocabulary because there is no threat of it.

I'm sorry you are having a hard time getting the help you need.

Thanks, I am sure I will get it worked out eventually. I will either get the meds or most likely get reassigned to a different Dr. or get one by going to a different VA which I am fortunate enough to be able to do. Some vets are hundreds of miles from a VA hospital like I used to be. At least I am close to two now.

 

[katholikos]

Obama Administration to Severely Wounded Vets: Suicide is Painless!

Did you watch Fox News Sunday today? Chris Wallace caught a Veteran's Affairs official in a bald face lie about this subject.