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Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by FreeGrace2, Sep 25, 2021.

  1. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    If this is a snide and snarky charge that I have turned God's grace into lasciviousness, then you are going to have to prove such a stupid claim. Because that's what it is.

    If I am guilty, prove it. If you can.

    And what do you presume "dead" refers to here?
     
  2. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

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    I will answer in 2-3 weeks, when your little subtil ways are sleeping again.
     
  3. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Well, let's look at the context:
    7 So I will be like a lion to them, like a leopard I will lurk by the path.
    8 Like a bear robbed of her cubs, I will attack them and rip them open; like a lion I will devour them— a wild animal will tear them apart.

    If you want to hold onto you own opinion, that's ok with me. But v.7 and 8 prove that the meaning of "die" in v.1 is physical death.

    Please quote the verse that SAYS this, or it's just another one of your opinions.

    Pretty obvious that Jesus was speaking of those who never believed and are therefore dead spiritually. However, where is the verse that says what you believe, that sinning causes spiritual death? We are born spiritually dead. We can't keep dying when we already ARE dead spiritually, as you seem to presume. It's that pesky opinion thing again.

    However, those possessing eternal life cannot die spiritually. But given your opinion about this, please show from Scripture unambiguous verses that teach that someone with eternal life can perish.


    Please explain what Jesus was teaching the woman, if you can. He was making a very important point.
     
  4. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Prove your case then. No one is interested in your opinions. Give Scripture that SAYS what you claim. If you can.

    Please show in this verse where spiritual life (eternal life) can perish. If you can.
     
  5. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    FreeGrace2 said:
    The ONLY verse you have to support your claims is a verse that doesn't apply to anyone other than THAT crowd. NO OTHER VERSE tells us that action is needed.
    Discernment, my dear Watson. That's what is needed.

    9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
    10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

    To "declare with your mouth" is a belief. What saves is believing in our heart. There are many verses that say EXACTLY that.

    In v.10 the "are saved" refers to deliverance from dangers by professing your faith.

    FreeGrace2 said:
    That is the gospel message. No action required or needed. Salvation is by faith, not by faith plus action.
    None of these are about salvation. There are many more that state that belief alone results in salvation. While it seems you are trying to find inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible, there aren't any. You are just confused.

    I don't ignore them. I refute them from Scripture.

    This is true, but what follows isn't.

    Nope. False.

    James wasn't even discussion soul salvation. His whole point was this: one's faith cannot be demonstrated without works. v.18 is the summary of that point.

    Apples to oranges.

    Nope.

    Please read the verses again. v.31 IS the gospel. Believe and be saved. That's it.

    When the household was mentioned, that's what Paul told them. The jailer DID hear the gospel in v.31. The COMPLETE gospel.
     
  6. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    I have Scripture that actually SAYS what I believe and claim, unlike yourself.

    Where did I ever say that? Again, you err. You are the assuming one. NO ONE knows whether they will persevere or not. You need to pay better attention to what others post.

    However, I KNOW that condemnation is for those who "have not believed". Are you aware of that? John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 both say that clearly.

    Since I believe, I KNOW that I wll not face condemnation.

    Well, contrary to your beliefs, I KNOW that Christ did all the work to save me. And I received the gift of eternal life because I have believed in Him for it.

    You haven't proved that from the Bible.

    FreeGrace2 said:
    Again, so what? I DO know who holds the future. God alone. And I KNOW what He has said in His Word about His plan of salvation. And I am trusting in what His Word SAYS.
    Such a judgment violates the Bible's command to not judge. And you have no authority to make such a judgment.

    My words stand, regardless of your opinion. I DO trust what God's Word says. Why would you claim that I'm not? How arrogant!

    You cannot prove your opinion from Scripture.

    To believe this opinion, one MUST believe that Jesus didn't die for all sins then. There is no other option. He either did or didn't pay for every sin.

    What you are doing, whether you realize it or not, is claiming that one's lifestyle determines whether one gets into heaven.

    And believing that precludes what Jesus did on the cross. You are placing your own efforts ABOVE what Christ for you.

    Your theology is just an opinion, and a very unbiblical one.

    Yes. Because of these FACTS:

    1. John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 say that condemnation is for those who "have not believed". That means "have NEVER believed".

    2. Jesus taught that eternal life is possessed by believers in John 5:24, and that means the MOMENT one believes in Christ possess eternal life. And Jesus said in John 10:28 that recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.

    2 sets of verses that prove that your opinion is very unbiblical.

    Nope.

    No, I reject your unsubstantiated claims and opinions.
     
  7. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    FreeGrace2 said:
    No you didn't. EVER. There are no verses. So, this is a challenge to lay all your cards on the table and prove me wrong.

    One thing I would never do is allow a FALSE CHARGE rest. I will ALWAYS defend my position from Scripture. Unlike yourself.
    Sure. Try to change the subject. I challenged you to prove me wrong, and you come up with this attempt to change the subject.

    What you did prove is that you CAN'T prove me wrong, and you know it, so you want to change the subject.

    The only way you will have any credibility is to prove me wrong. I don't need to wade back into the thread. I have challenged you to prove me wrong.

    Either you can or you can't. Since you are stalling, and trying to change the subject shows that you can't. It's that simple.

    What a ridiculous claim. The ONLY THING I am interested in is what Scripture says.

    And I've challenged you to prove me wrong. But you haven't because you can't.

    Not just sincere. But right.

    Interesting that you had a taste of truth once. Sad that you didn't like it.
     
  8. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Well, now you've got me doubting you're sincerity after all.
    I never came close to changing the subject. I simply stated the truth.
    Now WAITAMINUTE!! You're the one who accused me of not backing my claims with Scripture-and then apparently didn't have the integrity to research your own claim when challeneged.
    The Church teaches what Scripture says-but not what you say in all cases. We can't take a verse or two and ignore the rest, or twist them to fit our theology.
    Well, I'd hope you'd been sincere as well-at least sincerely wrong. And one can continue to grow in understanding of the truth. We won't when we get stuck on a particular position tho.
     
  9. Doug Brents

    Doug Brents Member

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    Ahh, so this is simply referring to temporal dangers. That’s a new one. I have never heard anyone use that excuse before, but it makes sense, if you ignore the context, squint your right eye until it is almost shut, and stand on your head.

    No! This entire section of Romans (and all of the Bible in general) is talking about salvation from the consequences of sin: eternal damnation in Hell (separation from God for eternity, the second death).

    You are correct, there are no inconsistencies in Scripture, and there are no contradictions either. You seem to think that if one verse says “A” and another verse says “B”, then “A” only is acceptable. And then you excuse away “B”. But that would make “B” a lie, and there are no lies in Scripture.
    No, the only correct answer is “A” AND “B”.

    Your opinion, that disagrees with Scripture, doesn’t count. And misapplying Scripture does not count either.

    Not only can it not be demonstrated without works, it is DEAD (worthless) without action, and verses 17, 24, and 26 are the summary of the Spirit’s intent.

    Umm, no. It is the same faith discussed in both places. James says it is dead if it is not active, and Paul says it is the conduit through which we receive salvation. James goes on to say that dead faith is worthless (without qualification). Worthless faith is not capable of transmitting salvation.

    Believe what?
    “Believe and be saved.” is NOT the Gospel.

    The Gospel (literally “good news”) is that God became flesh, lived a sinless life, died a sacrificial death free from sin, arose from the dead three days later thereby conquering death (separation from God), and He offers to exchange our sin and shame for His righteousness and glory if we will repent of our sins, confess His name, and be baptized into Him. That is the Gospel. And that is what Peter went on to explain to the jailer and his family.
     
  10. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Pretty hard to be saved unless one perserveres.
    You were justified once you came to beleive. Now you must walk in that justice, in that love. Matt 6:14-15 tells us that God won't even forgive our sins unless we forgive others. Yes, lifestyle.
    LOL-you've already told me that I'm wrong! And speaking the truth is not arrogance-unless Jesus was arrogant. It involves right discernment, which is Jesus's meaning in John 7:24, for example, using the term judgment there.
    "Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.'"
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
  11. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    When one finds truth, they better stick with it.
     
  12. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    There is no reason to even try to have a discussion with someone who believes that Paul's answer to the jailer who ASKED him what he MUST DO to be saved was incomplete.

    No, it isn't. Paul didn't even mention baptism until after the jailer believed. The jailer was saved WHEN he believed in the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  13. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    See? There you go again with your lifestyle salvation. That is not biblical.

    All believers are commanded to walk in the Spirit, not walk in "that justice", whatever that may mean. Our justification is permanent. Once declared justified, the believer cannot become UN-justified.

    Or, if that is true, please quote the verse that says so.

    This isn't about salvation at all. Lifestyle IS required for spiritual growth. Which is about fellowship. And blessings and eternal reward. Are you aware of these things?

    To explain Matt 6:14-15 to you, here is the point: to hold a grudge against another is a sin. And as long as a believer is in sin, God will not forgive them.

    Psa 66:18 - If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened;

    That is what Matt 6:14,15 is about.
     
  14. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Yep. And yet as created beings the knowledge we possess is subject to error-and growth and improvement-and we should always be open to the latter.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
  15. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Oh ya, very much so in fact.
    RIGHTEOUSNESS, HOLINESS, OVERCOMING SIN

    “For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.” Matt 5:20

    “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours.” Matt 6:14-15

    “If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” Matt 19:17

    "But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 6:22-23

    “Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13

    Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.” Heb12:14

    Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Gal 6:7-9

    The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:19-21

    “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:8-9

    “Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.1 John 3:4-8

    “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Rev 22:14-15

    REMAINING IN HIM

    I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned. John 15:5-6

    “You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.” Rom 11:19-22

    STRIVING, PERSEVERING

    Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. Matt 24:12-13

    To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.” Rom 2:7

    I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. rothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Phil 3:10-14

    Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. James 1:12

    For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. Heb 10:36

    Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us Heb 12:1

    And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. Gal 6:9

    If we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; 2 Tim 2:12

    VIGILANCE

    “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour. Matt 25:13

    “Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.” Matthew 26:41

    Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. Acts 20:31

    Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. 1 Cor10:12

    Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. 1 Cor 16:13

    Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 1 Pet 5:8

    Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. Rev 3:2
    Justification means to be made just, not merely declared just. But the will of man remains involved and we can walk away from, yes, that justice, that righteousness given to us. We can turn to sin and away from God, forfeiting the grace He's given. We're expected to love as He does, love Him because He first loved us, and love others as He loves them and ourselves. It's a command and yet a command that cannot and will not be obeyed until it's obeyed out of human choice-as love is being perfected in us. If you don't understand this you miss a huge part of what Christianity is all about.
    Right, the rewards thing- a very minor part of Scripture. Most just want to make it to heaven while few would actually covet rewards.
    I'm good with that. Not just any sin but those types of sins, outlined in Scripture, that tend to kill us all over again, opposed to and destroying love in us as they cause great harm to neighbor and offense to God. There are milder sins that don't lead to death, even as all sins at least tends towards it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
  16. Doug Brents

    Doug Brents Member

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    No, his answer was not incomplete. The Spirit just didn’t record all of what Peter said. We do not need to be told every word that Peter spoke to the jailer, because we have that information recorded elsewhere.

    Oh, so the Gospel is just “believe”? Believe whatever you want and you will be saved? Again, you take a single verse and build a doctrine around it to the exclusion of other passages that say different. If ALL of Scripture is inspired (and it is), then ALL of Scripture must agree with your doctrine for it to be sound.
    When searching for commentary on the Bible, the best place to look is the Bible itself. And when you do, you will find that ALL of the NT agrees with what I have said. There is no passage that disagrees with what I have said. You just don’t want to look at the passages that disagree with your preconceived ideas.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
  17. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

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    F Hanson: "It's a command and yet a command that cannot and will not be obeyed until it's obeyed out of human choice-as love is being perfected in us."






    Good verses you gave above F Hanson, and more info is needed on love being perfected in us, doesn't it.....



    1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

    1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

    1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

    1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

    John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.






    Maybe you can see, they are perfected, not being, but are it.


    Sin also, is able to see that there is a loophole for minor ones, or we can see that all unrighteousness, is what sin is, so the person is doing unrighteousness, whatever sin they commit.

    This manifests who is of God and who is not, as it says, the ones who do not have love for their brother ( which is when Gods love they say. is being perfected in them, and not as written by the Lord, when Gods love IS perfected in them) they do unrighteousness, and do not do righteousness..



    1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
    18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

    1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
     
  18. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    FreeGrace2 said:
    See? There you go again with your lifestyle salvation. That is not biblical.
    And NONE of these things will get you salvation.

    What you keep ignoring is that these things are COMMANDED of believers.

    Salvation is by faith in Christ. Obedience is for saved people.

    Telling an unsaved person to obey the Bible's commands regarding lifestyle is worthless.

    This is a Catholic notion, taken from the Latin, rather than the Greek. And it is wrong. The Greek word means "declare" not 'made'.

    Yes, man can walk away from a life of righteousness, but that doesn't lead to loss of salvation. Jesus was real clear; recipients of eternal life, which is given WHEN a person believes in Christ (John 5:24) SHALL NEVER PERISH (John 10:28).

    Why don't you believe what Jesus said?
     
  19. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    FreeGrace2 said:
    There is no reason to even try to have a discussion with someone who believes that Paul's answer to the jailer who ASKED him what he MUST DO to be saved was incomplete.
    You have clearly implied just that.

    This is just sheer speculation and presumption. Paul's answer WAS complete. To be saved, one must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But you keep forcing more into Paul's answer, via speculation.

    Of course it is. That is why the Bible says we are saved BY GRACE through faith. When we believe, we are doing nothing but trusting. That doesn't help God or assist God. He does the saving.

    In fact, 1 Cor 1:21 says that God is pleased to save those who believe. That's it. But it's clear you are shocked by that fact. You have been taught by false teachers.

    No, I never said that. Paul's answer to the jailer was "believe ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST and you will be saved".

    These verses prove your claim to be in error. Serious error.

    Salvation:

    Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

    Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.


    Acts 4:12
    12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

    Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

    Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

    Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

    1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

    Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

    2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

    2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

    Eternal Life:

    John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

    John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

    John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

    John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

    Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

    1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

    Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

    1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

    So much for your wildly inaccurate "single verse doctrine" claim.

    I just gave you 24 verses that have NO lifestyle commands for salvation.

    I don't use commentaries.

    None of it does. In fact, you are simply conflating how to be saved with how to live the Christian life.

    Go ahead and read my list again.

    I do look at them. They are HOW a believer is to live. But you conflate that with how to be saved.
     
  20. Doug Brents

    Doug Brents Member

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    Believe whatever you want. It is very clear to see that Paul told the jailer and his family a lot more than “believe and you will be saved”. The jailer had not heard…. Wait, … I repeat myself. And you’ve already said you don’t believe what Scripture says. So why am I wasting my time? I’m not. I am speaking to others who I hope are reading this forum. I can see that you aren’t listening, or trying to learn.

    Of course He does. But He has also told us that He doesn’t/won’t save those who don’t obey Him (Acts 5:32, Heb 5:9). He has told us that only those who repent will be forgiven (Acts 3:19). He has told us that we receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptized in water (Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Rom 6:1-11, Col 2:11-13, Eph 5:26).

    As I have tried to get you to see, “believe” here, as with everywhere else in the NT, comes from the Greek pistis:
    believe.
    πιστεύοντας (pisteuontas)
    Verb - Present Participle Active - Accusative Masculine Plural
    Strong's 4100: From pistis; to have faith,
    This is NOT a passive mental assent belief. This is active faith. It is not just one who hears a message and says in his heart, “Oh, ya, I think that’s true.” It is someone who hears the message, and obeys the command of the one in whom he believes (Acts 6:7, Gal 5:7, Rom 1:5, Rom 16:26, Rom 6:17, Rom 10:16).

    That was not his entire answer. It is VERY clear in verse 32 that Paul proceeded to “speak the Word of the Lord to him and to all in his house.” What is the “Word of the Lord”? It is the Gospel message. It is the thing we must believe and obey.
    The Gospel (literally “good news”) is that God became flesh, lived a sinless life, died a sacrificial death free from sin, arose from the dead three days later thereby conquering death (separation from God), and He offers to exchange our sin and shame for His righteousness and glory if we will repent of our sins, confess His name, and be baptized into Him. That is the Gospel. And that is what Peter went on to explain to the jailer and his family.

    Wait, wait. I thought you said this was uninspired.
    But if we are using it, then it absolutely proves my claim.
    Let me see if I can articulate your reasoning on why it disproves my claim. You think because baptism is not mentioned in the second half of the verse that it is irrelevant to the first half.
    Well, that would be like saying, “If you get out of the ice water, and get dressed you will get warm; if you don’t get out of the ice water, you will freeze.” Now, does it matter if he gets dressed while still in the water? No. He is still going to freeze. So it goes without saying anything about getting dressed in the second half because it is irrelevant. The same goes with baptism. If you don’t believe, it is worthless. But it is very much a part of salvation based on the first half of the sentence.

    Again, pistis, have faith.

    What did he speak? The Gospel (Acts 2:14-39, Acts 10:34-48).

    Now, don’t stop there. Read in through 32. And then he spoke the Word of the Lord to him and his household. He had not yet heard the Word of the Lord in verse 31.

    Belief leads to righteousness. And confession with the mouth (a decidedly physical act) leads to salvation. It does not flow FROM salvation. It LEADS TO salvation.

    Again, pistis, to have faith.

    Again, pistis, to have faith.

    Indeed, faith is the conduit, the “aqueduct”, through which Gods grace of salvation is poured into us. But faith without action is a broken pipe, a fallen aqueduct, and cannot carry salvation to us (Charles Spurgeon- “All of Grace”).

    There are many more passages on faith (and I deleted some of the ones you listed) so I will answer all of them with this one.
    Faith without action is worthless (James 2:26). It is not faith; it is dead. It is a broken pipe, or aqueduct, that cannot carry God’s grace of salvation to us (as Eph 2:8 says living faith does). Without obedience, we do not have faith, and faith is required for us to please God (Heb 11:6).

    Yes, all of these passages say we must have faith (not just mental assent). That being so, all of them refer to the rest of Scripture where instruction on what must be done is listed. For instance:
    Acts 3:19
    Rom 10:9-10
    Acts 2:38

    Wrong answer. They ALL say we must have faith. Faith is a lifestyle of obedience to God. And it must begin before salvation is received because it is the conduit through which salvation is received.

    So you didn’t quote from one just a few posts ago?
    You are too literal in your understanding. I was not referring to man-written commentaries. I was referring to anything we use to determine the meaning of a difficult passage, and the Bible is the best (really only) source for doing so.

    No. I have only listed passages that say something LEADS TO salvation. There are many other passages that say after salvation we must live in love, peace, harmony, striving for aimlessness, walking in the Light, etc. But passages like Acts 3:19 say something (repentance in this case) leads to forgiveness (salvation); Rom 10:9-10 says that confession of Jesus’ name leads to salvation; Acts 22:16 says that baptism in water (an act that Saul had to DO) is for washing away sins.

    These are not actions that flow out of having been saved. They are actions Scripture says specifically lead to salvation.
     
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