NZ fascist terrorist's manifesto

[mark kennedy]

From a Lutheran POV, the Crusades were superstition from our Catholic past. That is not just something liberal Lutherans believe, but all Lutherans. The idea of killing to get spiritual brownie points or to uphold an ideal of Christendom is sub-Christian.

Catholics and Protestants have went at it historically, the Thirty Years War comes to mind. Open warfare is one thing, just walking in with a gun and shooting unarmed people is something else entirely.

 

[FireDragon76]

Catholics and Protestants have went at it historically, the Thirty Years War comes to mind. Open warfare is one thing, just walking in with a gun and shooting unarmed people is something else entirely.

That's true but the Thirty Years War was not framed as a crusade.

Even the mentality of holy war permits people to justify "collateral damage" and dehumanization, so it's important to challenge the very concept that war can be holy.

As the old hymn says, "For not with swords' loud clashing or roll of stirring drums, but with deeds of love and mercy the heavenly kingdom comes"

 

[mindlight]

From a Lutheran POV, the Crusades were superstition from our Catholic past. That is not just something liberal Lutherans believe, but all Lutherans. The idea of killing to get spiritual brownie points or to uphold an ideal of Christendom is sub-Christian.

we do not live in a medieval culture today and it is easy to judge. But this guy was a vigilante not a crusader submitted to God and King. The First crusade was actually more an act of self defence against the advance of Islam into what was a Christian province of the Byzantine empire before its conquest. After the crusades Islam was in retreat.

 

[FireDragon76]

we do not live in a medieval culture today and it is easy to judge. But this guy was a vigilante not a crusader submitted to God and King. The First crusade was actually more an act of self defence against the advance of Islam into what was a Christian province of the Byzantine empire before its conquest. After the crusades Islam was in retreat.

I'm saying the theological basis for the Pope declaring a crusade marked him as anti-Christ. He simply did not have the authority to declare warfare to be a sacrament.

You may not be a Lutheran so you may not be clued into the difference between fighting to defend your country, which can be considered just, and the idea of killing to save your soul, which is sub-Christian superstition. The crusades were tainted by confusion of Law and Gospel right from the start.

In terms of Christian soteriology and theology, there is properly no such thing as "Christian lands". That is an historical convention only. Persons may be Christian, but lands are not.

 

[Desk trauma]

The article said Brevik only got a 21 year sentence! Is that right? Seems way too low.

That’s the maximum amount of time he could be sentenced to, but he does not get to walk free the morning after 21 years elapse. If he is found to still be a threat at the end of his sentence it can be extended 5 years at a time.

He’s not getting out.

 

[mindlight]

I'm saying the theological basis for the Pope declaring a crusade marked him as anti-Christ. He simply did not have the authority to declare warfare to be a sacrament.

You may not be a Lutheran so you may not be clued into the difference between fighting to defend your country, which can be considered just, and the idea of killing to save your soul, which is sub-Christian superstition. The crusades were tainted by confusion of Law and Gospel right from the start.

In terms of Christian soteriology and theology, there is properly no such thing as "Christian lands". That is an historical convention only. Persons may be Christian, but lands are not.

In British or German culture Christians do not have a theological mandate to kill as the secular civil law is clear and needs to be respected.

In Medieval culture there was no such prohibition and it is not true to scripture to suggest that killing was always wrong in a theocratic culture. There are a great many examples when submitted to the civil authority. Indeed Romans 13 would endorse the right to wage war and to execute. how do you handle the OT story of Phineas.

 

[FireDragon76]

In British or German culture Christians do not have a theological mandate to kill as the secular civil law is clear and needs to be respected.

In Medieval culture there was no such prohibition and it is not true to scripture to suggest that killing was always wrong in a theocratic culture. There are a great many examples when submitted to the civil authority. Indeed Romans 13 would endorse the right to wage war and to execute. how do you handle the OT story of Phineas.

Why do liberals get accused of moral relativism?

Romans 13 logic died in the ovens of Auschwitz. Responsible churches simply do not interpret it as sanctioning wars of aggression, which is what the Crusades really were. Frankish kings looking to expand their power. The sack of Constantinople was proof enough that piety was just a pretext.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Pewdiepie and Candace are nowhere near the Alt-Right.

 

[archer75]

Why do liberals get accused of moral relativism?

Romans 13 logic died in the ovens of Auschwitz. Responsible churches simply do not interpret it as sanctioning wars of aggression, which is what the Crusades really were. Frankish kings looking to expand their power. The sack of Constantinople was proof enough that piety was just a pretext.

I am unable to understand why Romans 13 is so often trotted out to justify any atrocity (including the bombing of pregnant women and children), and yet immediately becomes apocryphal when the topic of same-sex marriage comes up.

 

[archer75]

By the way, I didn't read the whole manifesto, but I did read a good bit. I saw where he noted his hatred for "converts" to Islam, because they are white and are turning their backs on their traditions, but I could not find any mention of whether Muslims or people of any religion who are not "white" convert to Christianity. Are they then less horrible in "our lands," or what?

 

[FireDragon76]

By the way, I didn't read the whole manifesto, but I did read a good bit. I saw where he noted his hatred for "converts" to Islam, because they are white and are turning their backs on their traditions, but I could not find any mention of whether Muslims or people of any religion who are not "white" convert to Christianity. Are they then less horrible in "our lands," or what?

It's just racism with a pious pretext. This guy didn't even have the guts to really identify as a Christian, which is almost the same as Anders Brevik, who believed in a ridiculously vapid idea of what Christianity could be. They talk the talk, but they can't walk the walk.

It's rather like the Nazi's Positive Christianity. It is only Christian in the sense of having some romantic feelings about knights and big gothic edifices, but at the end of the day it doesn't care about the middle eastern carpenter from Galilee who preached loving your enemies.

 

[archer75]

It's just racism with a pious pretext. This guy didn't even have the guts to really identify as a Christian, which is almost the same as Anders Brevik, who believed in a ridiculously vapid idea of what Christianity could be. They talk the talk, but they can't walk the walk.

It's rather like the Nazi's Positive Christianity. It is only Christian in the sense of having some romantic feelings about knights and big gothic edifices, but at the end of the day it doesn't care about the middle eastern carpenter from Galilee who preached loving your enemies.

I did scroll through the calls to arms and get to the end of the document, though, and saw the pictures at the end. A blonde woman caring for a baby, a pretty bit of scenery, a man doing something with his son...all things that are good.

It's very sad that the combination of emotional problems and a human need to organize space into "here" and "there" had this horrible effect...

 

[mark kennedy]

People scared of a changing world don't always think rationally- no surprise there. I'm not excusing his groteqsque behavior, but we need to do more as societies to give people confidence in the future and to challenge the evil of fear and hatred.

Ok, so you don't like the immigration policy, that's not an excuse to start killing people. There are a lot of people who are more protectionist, they simply make their voices heard.

 

[essentialsaltes]

but I could not find any mention of whether Muslims or people of any religion who are not "white" convert to Christianity. Are they then less horrible in "our lands," or what?

You might think so, but that would be rational.

I don't want to speak for this vermin, but he lays out that assimilation is a failed concept, so he might consider it impossible for such a conversion. I think it's also clear that although he talks about culture and religion, his main interests are in ethnicity/race. He doesn't want any other colors in his Crayola box.

 

[archer75]

You might think so, but that would be rational.

I don't want to speak for this vermin, but he lays out that assimilation is a failed concept, so he might consider it impossible for such a conversion. I think it's also clear that although he talks about culture and religion, his main interests are in ethnicity/race. He doesn't want any other colors in his Crayola box.

The very idea of all of this is incoherent. Who are these white people, and how do we recognize them? If Christianity is okay, as he seems to allow, what about all these brown people who are Christians? Do they get credit for "beating" Europe to the Cross?

 

[Chesterton]

This guy didn't even have the guts to really identify as a Christian, which is almost the same as Anders Brevik, who believed in a ridiculously vapid idea of what Christianity could be. They talk the talk, but they can't walk the walk.

It's rather like the Nazi's Positive Christianity. It is only Christian in the sense of having some romantic feelings about knights and big gothic edifices, but at the end of the day it doesn't care about the middle eastern carpenter from Galilee who preached loving your enemies.

Which is to say none of these were Christian or even pretended to be.

It's just racism with a pious pretext.

Yes, and the pious pretext is Naturalism, which he references many times.

What are your wishes?
To ensure the existence of our people and a future for white children, whilst preserving and exulting nature and the natural order.​

 

[mindlight]

Why do liberals get accused of moral relativism?

Romans 13 logic died in the ovens of Auschwitz. Responsible churches simply do not interpret it as sanctioning wars of aggression, which is what the Crusades really were. Frankish kings looking to expand their power. The sack of Constantinople was proof enough that piety was just a pretext.

Sorry but nonsense, some wars, as in the one against the Nazis are just ones. The First Crusade was an act of self defence and had just cause. Nero was worse than Hitler with Christians and yet Paul urged respect for the authorities.

 

[mindlight]

I am unable to understand why Romans 13 is so often trotted out to justify any atrocity (including the bombing of pregnant women and children), and yet immediately becomes apocryphal when the topic of same-sex marriage comes up.

Respect for the civil authority does not imply agreement. Western governments do not target innocents and the level of collateral damage caused by NATO armies is very low historically. Gay marriage is an abomination but the property rights and respect for freewill contracts they are packaged with give them a level of legal protection respected by Christians with the rule of law for instance. There is no way that a Christian rationale for todays vigilante murders could be formulated without a direct command from God being involved and this is not his style in the NT era and the attacker was not even a Christian anyway.

An OT example of "mosque" killing would be that of Samson bringing down the temple of idols and killing thousands of idolaters and foreign invaders of Israel within it. But in that case he was the Judge of Israel with a Divine appointment and right to judge and kill people that had blinded and imprisoned him personally and mocked God. Indeed it was part of his job description to kill Israels enemies.

 

[mindlight]

It's just racism with a pious pretext. This guy didn't even have the guts to really identify as a Christian, which is almost the same as Anders Brevik, who believed in a ridiculously vapid idea of what Christianity could be. They talk the talk, but they can't walk the walk.

It's rather like the Nazi's Positive Christianity. It is only Christian in the sense of having some romantic feelings about knights and big gothic edifices, but at the end of the day it doesn't care about the middle eastern carpenter from Galilee who preached loving your enemies.

Agreed this guy does not have any moral substance or rationale for his vigilante murders. But God did not appoint him to this role and he does not know Him. If he had known God he would not have done this and could not have defined enemies in terms of race.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Hmm. Using the Hagia Sophia as a symbol of the dominance of one group over another...where have we seen that before? Maybe in the actions of those who put minarets atop it in the first place? Funny how the extremes on any end always resemble each other in some way that would make them incredibly upset to realize.



Just like Bin Laden and other terrorists did/do.



If you want to die in a phony religious war for a religion you don't even believe in, that's on you. The Coptic people never participated in any crusades, and they're no less strong for it. A crusade is just what the radical Muslims I'm sure he thought he was killing want. What a moron. Leave my religion alone, you fascist maniac. (If I *have* to fight anyone, I'd rather fight people like this guy than some guy who is just some Muslim guy who moved to NZ for a better life than he could have in Syria, Afghanistan, or wherever.)



I hate the Turkish state and its lies and genocide denial, like any person would, but how on earth is killing random people in NZ going to do anything to make 'Constantinople' become "Christian-owned" territory once again? That's just a stupid fantasy. This sort of thing is what happens when 'Christendom LARPers' are let out of their basements. It's horrific. It figures that he would overlook/miss/forget about everything in Christian scripture and tradition that is against his bloody goals: "My kingdom is not of this world"; "Put your sword away, for he who lives by the sword will die by it", etc.

dzheremi, you always manage to say what I am thinking in nearly all your posts, wish I could convey stuff in the same way!