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NZ fascist terrorist's manifesto

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by essentialsaltes, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

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    While of course there is already a thread on the heinous acts and the thoughts of shock, sorrow (and anger) they have inspired, I wanted to create a thread to specifically discuss the manifesto, which has been likened to that of Anders Breivik, who carried out the attacks in Norway. (No direct link to the document, since it probably isn't appropriate here, but it's easily found.)

    It's interesting since it was clearly composed in advance of the attack and specifically addresses questions about his motivations, etc.

    I haven't consumed it all, but just some quick notes.

    He self-identifies as fascist and the act as terrorism (though he announces an intention to plead not guilty as a 'partisan' fighting against an invading force).

    He is coy about his religious beliefs.
    "Were/are you a Christian?
    That is complicated. When I know I will tell you."

    He claims to have asked for and received the blessing for his mission from the reborn Knights Templar (associated with Breivik, whom he mentions specifically being in contact with). If someone had advance notice of the attack and said nothing, they deserve some (additional) legal troubles of their own.

    His main motivation is anti-immigration, afraid that white Europeans are not reproducing rapidly enough and are being replaced by non-whites with higher birth rates.

    ...

    He believes that his attack will inspire a fight over gun control in the US that will divide the country along cultural and racial lines. (Sorry sucker, we have homegrown jerks who killed more people than you and it hasn't caused a race war.)

    "Were/are you a supporter of Donald Trump?
    As a symbol of a renewed white identity and common purpose? Sure. As a policy maker and leader? Dear god no."
     
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  2. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    What a confused and pathetic loser. I don't know NZ law at all, but whatever maximum it allows them to give him, they ought to give him 50 times that. There's no excuse for this sick act of terrorism. If you're against mass immigration, then you vote against politicians who are for it. Committing acts of terrorism does nothing but alienate everyone from political causes associated with you, and fuels narratives about "clashes of civilization" or whatever (which may be right, depending on how you read events like these, but don't seem to divide the way that those who push them often do; turns out it's not the eeeevil Muslims vs. the freedom-loving west, but rather the terrorists of every background vs. people who can handle their emotions and disagreements like adults without shooting or otherwise killing or harming anyone.)
     
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  3. Zoness

    Zoness 667, neighbor of the beast Supporter

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    Discord is ablaze with nightmarish trolling and the video circulating widely of the shooting. It's been whack a mole keeping it off my servers.

    Maybe people will start to take the "ironic ethnonationalists" on the chans more seriously now. No more can you use that excuse as casual memeing and trolling.
     
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  4. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    I've been taking them pretty seriously for a while.
     
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  5. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    :scratch: I wondered if the term Fascist belonged on this shooter, but his manifesto reportedly does state his self-identification as a Fascist and his rejection of Conservatism.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  6. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

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    After the direct FAQ on the attacks and motivation, it gets a lot less interesting. To me, anyway. Some villainous jerks no doubt will be inspired.

    His self-description as an eco-fascist is a bit interesting.
    "Green nationalism is the only true nationalism." For too long, the left has coopted environmentalist movement.

    "Emotions rule over facts"
    "Memes have done more for the ethno-nationalist movement than any manifesto."

    "Until the Hagia Sophia is free of the minarets, the men of Europe are men in name only."

    It's interesting who he chooses to send out specific messages to (my paraphrases). Just these four groups:

    To Conservatives: Conservatism has failed. Check out the new hotness.
    To Christians: The Crusades were a great idea. "let our lives be stronger than death to fight against the enemies of the Christian people"
    To Antifa/Marxists/Communists: "See you on the streets you anti-white scum."
    To Turks: Go back where you came from (like before 1453). "Constantinople will be rightfully Christian owned once more"
     
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  7. super animator

    super animator Dreamer

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    Gee a white supremacist no doubt.
     
  8. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

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  9. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    Also read parts of his manifesto. Not the whole thing but here's what sticks out to me.

    The guy seems to be into memes and that part of internet meme culture is present throughout his manifesto which is laden with Jokes that I don't think anyone can take seriously. He jokes that Spyro 3 taught him Ethno-nationalism and Fortnite trained him how to be a killer "and to floss on the corpses of my enemies).

    He said during the incident "remember to subscribe to Pewdiepie," he also credits his beliefs to Candace Owens within the manifesto and I can't help but think he's trying to poison both of their reputations by an indirect association with him. Pewdiepie and Candace are nowhere near the Alt-Right.

    It might sound like a meme in of itself to ask this, but what did he mean by all this?

    Taking this manifesto seriously when it is filled with jokes which obscure some of the points he claims to believe is hard. Is it all a joke to him or is he serious? I hope interrogators get to the truth behind his motivation. I think he just wanted to cause tension between left and right and that he's partly succeeded.
     
  10. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Hmm. Using the Hagia Sophia as a symbol of the dominance of one group over another...where have we seen that before? Maybe in the actions of those who put minarets atop it in the first place? Funny how the extremes on any end always resemble each other in some way that would make them incredibly upset to realize.

    Just like Bin Laden and other terrorists did/do.

    If you want to die in a phony religious war for a religion you don't even believe in, that's on you. The Coptic people never participated in any crusades, and they're no less strong for it. A crusade is just what the radical Muslims I'm sure he thought he was killing want. What a moron. Leave my religion alone, you fascist maniac. (If I *have* to fight anyone, I'd rather fight people like this guy than some guy who is just some Muslim guy who moved to NZ for a better life than he could have in Syria, Afghanistan, or wherever.)

    I hate the Turkish state and its lies and genocide denial, like any person would, but how on earth is killing random people in NZ going to do anything to make 'Constantinople' become "Christian-owned" territory once again? That's just a stupid fantasy. This sort of thing is what happens when 'Christendom LARPers' are let out of their basements. It's horrific. It figures that he would overlook/miss/forget about everything in Christian scripture and tradition that is against his bloody goals: "My kingdom is not of this world"; "Put your sword away, for he who lives by the sword will die by it", etc.
     
  11. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

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    Also, by being forced to deny him, these 'celebrities' inadvertently will spread his message.

    I'm sure you're right that he's trying to cause trouble. Since he's still alive, we may well learn a lot more about him and his associates. And how much is 'satire' and how much is sincere.
     
  12. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    I'm sure Nazis started with nervous angst and resentments at a Bavarian beer hall, the 4Chan of their day.

    Being a decent human being is a moral struggle, it's not a given. Maybe people have lost sight of that in the modern world. Trivializing moral struggle as political correctness is part of the problem, not the solution.
     
  13. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    The whole thing is litholatry and worship of dirt and soil. Anybody that gets that upset about a few Muslims on what used to be a Christian church, that they would murder for it, is no Christian and no God-fearer, but a pagan.
     
  14. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I tried tracking down some of the things this guy believes, I don't think he even knows. It sounds like a rambling, disturbed racism.
     
  15. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    People scared of a changing world don't always think rationally- no surprise there. I'm not excusing his groteqsque behavior, but we need to do more as societies to give people confidence in the future and to challenge the evil of fear and hatred.
     
  16. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    There is a school of thought that the relative lack of freedom to criticize or question the changes in society re: immigration and demographic changes without being immediately labeled 'racist' and being forced to apologize/lose your job/be harassed out of public life is at least part of what drives these more violent episodes. I'm not sure I buy it, or at least not in every case, since it's very easy to neutralize charges of racism when you can show how your criticism is not based in racial hatred (i.e., it would be pretty impossible to call criticism of Islam that comes from within Islamic societies or refugees from them 'racist', since the Muslim populations of these countries are often Arabized/Turkified/Persianized etc. -- just as the non-Muslims are -- and it's not possible to be 'racist' against yourself).

    I don't know what the answer is other than to say that sunlight is the best disinfectant for extremists of all types. Letting people fester in the depths of extremism where they meet like-minded people (does anyone else here remember how the San Bernadino shooter was married to a wife who had pledged allegiance to ISIS?) doesn't lead to anything good.
     
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  17. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I think it's important to note, very often in these cases racism is a motive. This guy has alluded to the Knight Templar and Crusades if I'm getting this straight, if you know anything about history those were disastrous failures to control the Middle East. My guess is people who hate look for someone to aim it at, some dark passion for violence. At least the Crusades were open warfare, but opening up on defenseless worshipers is a crime beyond cowardice, he is a bottom feeder among some of our most disposed criminals.
     
  18. Chesterton

    Chesterton Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding Supporter

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    What happened to the other thread?
     
  19. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    The article said Brevik only got a 21 year sentence! Is that right? Seems way too low.

    These sorts of incidents are usually perpetrated by individualistic narcissists in Western countries , probably influenced by a gaming culture. In Muslim countries it is more a herd hate mentality.

    As an immigrant myself I think this racism twaddle is hardly worth reading particularly since there is no theological foundation to his actions.

    Most people get that this was murder and it is hard to see any advantage coming from it for whatever confused goals he was aiming for.

    By the way I would blame rebel Catholic crusaders for the loss of Constantinople as a result of their 1204 sacking of the city. The Latin empire period weakened it to the point that the Turks could take it in 1453. It is a lesson that the churches divisions are often more important than the threat of false religions like Islam.
     
  20. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    From a Lutheran POV, the Crusades were superstition from our Catholic past. That is not just something liberal Lutherans believe, but all Lutherans. The idea of killing to get spiritual brownie points or to uphold an ideal of Christendom is sub-Christian.
     
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