JW NWT Translators Did Not Know Biblical Hebrew Or Greek

Kiwi Christian

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NWT Translators Did Not Know Biblical Hebrew Or Greek

The Watchtower Bible calls the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures one of the best translations to be found. But is it a translation or merely are gross distortions of the actual Greek and Hebrew manuscripts based on these men’s opinions. The FORWARD of the New World Translation in 1961 edition, on page 5 states, "It is a very responsible thing to translate the Holy Scriptures from their original languages, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, into modern speech ... The translators who have a fear and love of the divine Author of the Holy Scriptures feel especially a responsibility toward Him to transmit his thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible." Have their translators been responsible? Are they true to the original languages?

The men that comprised the Translation Committee were not even Greek scholars qualified to translate the Bible. These men were: N.H. Knorr, F. W. Franz the 4th President, A.D. Schroeder, G.D. Gangas and M. Henschel (write to Personal Freedom Outreach, P.O. Box 26062, St. Louis, Missouri 63136 for paper documentation). All met together in these translation sessions. The translation committee requested that the names of the translators remain secret even after their deaths (Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, p. 258).

Franz was asked in a courtroom in Scotland, "Why the secrecy?" he said, "Because the committee of translation wanted it to remain anonymous and not seek any glory or honour at the making of a translation, and having any names attached thereto." The attorney replied, "Writers of books and translators do not always get glory and honour for their efforts, do they?" (Pursuer's Proof of Douglas Walsh vs. The Right Honourable James Latham, M.P., P.C., Scottish Court of Sessions, p. 92 Nov. 1954).

In 1954, in a Scotland trial, Fred Franz, then head of the Watchtower Editorial Board, admitted that he himself was the one who had checked the accuracy of the translation and recommended its publication. (Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham Clyde, M.P., P.C., etc., Scotland, 1954, (1958 ed.).p.88.)

The following is from the trial transcript: -
(Q): Insofar as translation of the Bible itself is undertaken, are you responsible for that?
(A): I have been authorized to examine a translation and determine its accuracy and recommend its acceptance in the form in which it is submitted.
Later, Franz was asked about his own involvement in the translating(Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham
Clyde, M.P., P.C., etc., Scotland, 1954, (1958 ed.).p.92)
(Q) : Were you yourself responsible for the translation of the Old Testament?
( A ) : Again I cannot answer that question...
Here, under oath, Franz refused to confirm or deny he was the translator of the Hebrew text. Why wouldn't he say that he did not translate the Old Testament? The court also wondered "why" and asked (ibid)
(Q): Why the secrecy?
(A): Because the committee of translation wanted it to remain anonymous and not seek any glory or honour at the making of a translation, and having any names attached thereto.

Why is it the writers of the New Testament books identified their authorship by their names, we know they were not seeking honor.

The facts speak for themselves. The real reason would be that the translators could not be checked since they had no qualifications and anyone investigating this could not find anyone to assume responsibility for the translation. A shrewd plan indeed.

According to Raymond Franz, only Fred Franz had "sufficient knowledge of the Bible languages to attempt translation of this kind. He had studied Greek for two years in the University of Cincinnati but was only self taught In Hebrew." Raymond Franz, Crisis of Conscience (Atlanta: Commentary Press, 1983).

Not one of the men had ever studied Greek, and wouldn't know the difference between an alpha or a omega. Only three of the five had even finished high school. Of those three only one went on to College. His name was Fredrick Franz, the same man who became the President of the Jehovah's Witnesses. He did begin at the University of Cincinatti but only completed two years. He then dropped out of College after the first semester in 1913 because he believed what Russell told him, that Christ was returning in 1914. He does not have even the most basic college degree, and certainly does not possess a degree for advanced study of the Bible. In fact, outside of the Watchtower circle Franz is not recognized by anyone as a scholar.

As M. James Penton, a former Jehovah's Witness and historian, has written, "to all intents and purposes the New World Translation is the work of one man-Frederick Franz." M. James Penton, Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses (Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1985),

The men who make up the "translation committee" were self-appointed men lacking any adequate schooling or background in biblical languages unable to function as Bible Translators. Their purpose was not to translate the Scripture into a modern version of the Bible but to justify their theology to their people and have ammunition against Christianity as it is practiced today.

The New World Translation is a fabrication with no scholarship involved. It was specifically created to make the Bible agree their preconceived theology. It was made for their people to believe WT doctrine and uphold their false belief that Jesus is Michael the Archangel not God.
 
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frienden thalord

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Imagine what a severe case of selective amnesia.
they claimed to know greek, yet poof like that amnesia struck them.
The diagnosis is a long name its called selective amnesia causiam ryte syndrome.
and man people fall under its spell.
 
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Radrook

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That whole argument can be countered by merely pointing out that God can easily qualify any person who lacks the formal education just as he did with Peter, John, and other persons who were not scholars but mere fishermen.

There are also scriptures in the OT which speak of God providing his servants with the necessary skills to accomplish things otherwise beyond their ability. So if indeed the translation is to be severely criticized that is not the best rout to take.

BTW
You consider them nonChristian and they have the same opinion of you. Ironic! LOL!
 
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tstor

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NWT Translators Did Not Know Biblical Hebrew Or Greek
This ought to be interesting since the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has never released the names of the New World Translation Committee.

The men that comprised the Translation Committee were not even Greek scholars qualified to translate the Bible. These men were: N.H. Knorr, F. W. Franz the 4th President, A.D. Schroeder, G.D. Gangas and M. Henschel (write to Personal Freedom Outreach, P.O. Box 26062, St. Louis, Missouri 63136 for paper documentation). All met together in these translation sessions. The translation committee requested that the names of the translators remain secret even after their deaths (Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, p. 258).
Again, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has not released the names of the individuals who worked on the New World Translation. Any names that have been suggested are merely guesswork based on circumstantial hearsay. Though even if the five individuals you named did compose the body of the New World Translation Committee, their credentials (or lack of) would essentially be meaningless. One would have to show that the translation they produced is objectively bad.


Franz was asked in a courtroom in Scotland, "Why the secrecy?" he said, "Because the committee of translation wanted it to remain anonymous and not seek any glory or honour at the making of a translation, and having any names attached thereto." The attorney replied, "Writers of books and translators do not always get glory and honour for their efforts, do they?" (Pursuer's Proof of Douglas Walsh vs. The Right Honourable James Latham, M.P., P.C., Scottish Court of Sessions, p. 92 Nov. 1954).
Yes, some translation committees remain anonymous. This is not a new practice. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society rightly points this out:

When presenting as a gift the publishing rights to their translation, the New World Bible Translation Committee requested that its members remain anonymous. The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania has honored their request. The translators were not seeking prominence for themselves but only to honor the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures.

Over the years other translation committees have taken a similar view. For example, the jacket of the Reference Edition (1971) of the New American Standard Bible states: "We have not used any scholar's name for reference or recommendations because it is our belief God’s Word should stand on its merits." (Watchtower Online Library; rs p. 276-p. 280)​

In 1954, in a Scotland trial, Fred Franz, then head of the Watchtower Editorial Board, admitted that he himself was the one who had checked the accuracy of the translation and recommended its publication. (Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham Clyde, M.P., P.C., etc., Scotland, 1954, (1958 ed.).p.88.)

The following is from the trial transcript: -
(Q): Insofar as translation of the Bible itself is undertaken, are you responsible for that?
(A): I have been authorized to examine a translation and determine its accuracy and recommend its acceptance in the form in which it is submitted.
Later, Franz was asked about his own involvement in the translating(Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham
Clyde, M.P., P.C., etc., Scotland, 1954, (1958 ed.).p.92)
Why would he (Franz) not review the translation before publication? He was a member of the Governing Body. It would be irresponsible of him to not review it prior to approval.

(Q) : Were you yourself responsible for the translation of the Old Testament?
( A ) : Again I cannot answer that question...
Here, under oath, Franz refused to confirm or deny he was the translator of the Hebrew text. Why wouldn't he say that he did not translate the Old Testament? The court also wondered "why" and asked (ibid)
(Q): Why the secrecy?
(A): Because the committee of translation wanted it to remain anonymous and not seek any glory or honour at the making of a translation, and having any names attached thereto.
He may or may not have been invovled in the translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. This excerpt from the transcripts does not provide enough information for us to know one way or another.

Why is it the writers of the New Testament books identified their authorship by their names, we know they were not seeking honor.
Are you comparing Bible translators to the men who were literally writings the Word of God?

The facts speak for themselves. The real reason would be that the translators could not be checked since they had no qualifications and anyone investigating this could not find anyone to assume responsibility for the translation. A shrewd plan indeed.
Or they meant what they said and were remaining anonymous out of humility. Though, again, the credentials do not really matter. If they were unqulified to translate the Bible then you should be able to point out numerous examples of objective mistranslations.

According to Raymond Franz, only Fred Franz had "sufficient knowledge of the Bible languages to attempt translation of this kind. He had studied Greek for two years in the University of Cincinnati but was only self taught In Hebrew." Raymond Franz, Crisis of Conscience (Atlanta: Commentary Press, 1983).
Raymond Franz was a former member of the Governing Body who broke away and was disfellowshipped. He is not exactly the perfect example of objectivity. He had an axe to grind.

Not one of the men had ever studied Greek, and wouldn't know the difference between an alpha or a omega. Only three of the five had even finished high school. Of those three only one went on to College. His name was Fredrick Franz, the same man who became the President of the Jehovah's Witnesses. He did begin at the University of Cincinatti but only completed two years. He then dropped out of College after the first semester in 1913 because he believed what Russell told him, that Christ was returning in 1914. He does not have even the most basic college degree, and certainly does not possess a degree for advanced study of the Bible. In fact, outside of the Watchtower circle Franz is not recognized by anyone as a scholar.
Again, there is no real evidence to show the Franz was on the translation committee. We do not know who was on it. So to make statements such as "not one of the men had ever studied Greek, and wouldn't know the difference between an alpha or a omega" or "only three of the five had even finished high school" would suggest that you know who the individuals on the committee were. You don't. No one does other than the individuals that are higher-up in the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

Their purpose was not to translate the Scripture into a modern version of the Bible but to justify their theology to their people and have ammunition against Christianity as it is practiced today.
If this is true, then you should have no issue providing for me objective mistranslations that can be found in the New World Translation. Use any version you want, as I own copies of all editions including the various versions of the Kingdom Interlinear.
 
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Radrook

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A work has to be evaluated on its own merits and not on the qualifications of those who produced it. That is the basic mistake being made here,. Another basic mistake is the assumption that all those who don't accept the Trinity idea are not Christian. I thought it was against forum rules to level that kind of judgmental accusation on this website but here it is as plain as day.
 
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Kiwi Christian

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This ought to be interesting since the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has never released the names of the New World Translation Committee.

That doesnt mean that no-one knows who they were.

And, if you dont know who they were, how do YOU know they DID speak Hebrew and Greek?


Again, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has not released the names of the individuals who worked on the New World Translation. Any names that have been suggested are merely guesswork based on circumstantial heresay. Though even if the five individuals you named did compose the body of the New World Translation Committee, their credentials (or lack of) would essentially be meaningless. One would have to show that the translation they produced is objectively bad.

Again, That doesnt mean that no-one knows who they were.

Yes, some translation committees remain anonymous. This is not a new practice. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society rightly points this out:

When presenting as a gift the publishing rights to their translation, the New World Bible Translation Committee requested that its members remain anonymous. The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania has honored their request. The translators were not seeking prominence for themselves but only to honor the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures.

Over the years other translation committees have taken a similar view. For example, the jacket of the Reference Edition (1971) of the New American Standard Bible states: "We have not used any scholar's name for reference or recommendations because it is our belief God’s Word should stand on its merits." (Watchtower Online Library; rs p. 276-p. 280)​

Of course they will find excuses and try to wriggle out of things. based on the watchtowers history of flip-flopping on doctrines and the many false prophecies they have made, i would not trust them as far as i could throw them!

Why would he (Franz) not review the translation before publication? He was a member of the Governing Body. It would be irresponsible of him to not review it prior to approval.


He may or may not have been invovled in the translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. This excerpt from the transcripts does not provide enough information for us to know one way or another.

So why are you complaining, since you do not know?

Are you comparing Bible translators to the men who were literally writings the Word of God?

Show me where i did that.

Or they meant what they said and were remaining anonymous out of humility. Though, again, the credentials do not really matter. If they were unqulified to translate the Bible then you should be able to point out numerous examples of objective mistranslations.

Humility? LOL. Do you REALLY believe that? Is that what you have been programmed to think?

Raymond Franz was a former member of the Governing Body who broke away and was disfellowshipped. He is not exactly the perfect example of objectivity. He had an axe to grind.

LOL. That means nothing. Unless you can prove his "axe" was false, you cant cast any stones.

Again, there is no real evidence to show the Franz was on the translation committee. We do not know who was on it. So to make statements such as "not one of the men had ever studied Greek, and wouldn't know the difference between an alpha or a omega" or "only three of the five had even finished high school" would suggest that you know who the individuals on the committee were. You don't. No one does other than the individuals that are higher-up in the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.


If this is true, then you should have no issue providing for me objective mistranslations that can be found in the New World Translation. Use any version you want, as I own copies of all editions including the various versions of the Kingdom Interlinear.

If you are a jehovahs witness, you know full well you are NOT allowed to read ANYTHING that does not come from the watchtower and you are NOT allowed to think for yourself.

1983 "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

1983 "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )

"All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave." (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8.)
 
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Kiwi Christian

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A work has to be evaluated on its own merits and not on the qualifications of those who produced it. That is the basic mistake being made here,. Another basic mistake is the assumption that all those who don't accept the Trinity idea are not Christian. I thought it was against forum rules to level that kind of judgmental accusation on this website but here it is as plain as day.

And the "merits" of the NWT are that it bears NO resemblence to the antioch text or textus receptus.

Experts HAVE studied the NWT and concluded its a pile of garbage.

If YOU use the NWT, then YOu tell me what manuscripts did they use?
 
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Radrook

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And the "merits" of the NWT are that it bears NO resemblence to the antioch text or textus receptus.

Experts HAVE studied the NWT and concluded its a pile of garbage.

If YOU use the NWT, then YOu tell me what manuscripts did they use?

Then you need to specifically and calmly point out what you consider flaws instead of rambling ineffectually all over the place, and furiously hurling insults to blow off steam .

BTW
A lot of things that were translated and remain translated in other translations including the KJV is as you salaciously point out-nothing but tripe designed either to mislead or else written out of sheer incompetence. But of course those things are OK by you it would seem.
 
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tstor

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That doesnt mean that no-one knows who they were.

And, if you dont know who they were, how do YOU know they DID speak Hebrew and Greek?
Yes, it does. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has not released the information and the information has not been leaked. Like I said, it is just hearsay. As well, I don't know that the translators knew Hebrew or Greek. However, given that you have not produced any examples of objective mistranslations in the New World Translation, I assume they knew what they were doing.

Of course they will find excuses and try to wriggle out of things. based on the watchtowers history of flip-flopping on doctrines and the many false prophecies they have made, i would not trust them as far as i could throw them!
Doctrinal changes or "flip-flops" have nothing to do with our discussion. Please stay focused.

Show me where i did that.
Right here:

Why is it the writers of the New Testament books identified their authorship by their names, we know they were not seeking honor.​

Humility? LOL. Do you REALLY believe that? Is that what you have been programmed to think?
Programmed to think? What on earth are you talking about? :laughing:

LOL. That means nothing. Unless you can prove his "axe" was false, you cant cast any stones.
He is the one making the statements. He has to prove that they are true before I will accept them.

If you are a jehovahs witness, you know full well you are NOT allowed to read ANYTHING that does not come from the watchtower and you are NOT allowed to think for yourself.
I am not a JW. I am a member of a local Southern Baptist church.
 
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Kiwi Christian

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They used the Westcott and Hort Greek text, which is primarily based off of Vaticanus and Sinaiticus.

Oh? Can you show me proof of this?

Also, these are the WRONG texts.

Have you READ westcott and hort and what THEY believed?

What the watchtower did was gather a lot of different manuscripts, including those of Johannes Greber who was a SPIRITIST ( funny how a recent copy of the watchtower warns AGAINST spiritists! what hypocrites ) and they picked what portions agreed to their pre-conceived views.

So the NWT is a pish-posh of many different manuscripts, ripped out of context and repasted.
 
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tstor

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Oh? Can you show me proof of this?
Yes. I took a photo of my Kingdom Interlinear for you:

Photo on 6-2-17 at 10.02 AM.jpg


Also, these are the WRONG texts.

Have you READ westcott and hort and what THEY believed?
The Westcott and Hort text is very well respected by modern scholars. The only objections to it I have read have been from KJV Onlyists.


What the watchtower did was gather a lot of different manuscripts, including those of Johannes Greber who was a SPIRITIST ( funny how a recent copy of the watchtower warns AGAINST spiritists! what hypocrites ) and they picked what portions agreed to their pre-conceived views.

So the NWT is a pish-posh of many different manuscripts, ripped out of context and repasted.
The New World Translation is not based off of Johannes Greber's "manuscripts" as he had none. Rather, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society cited some of his translations of the Greek Scriptures in support of their own renderings. So, Johannes Greber had no impact on the New World Translation Committee (and, for clarification, that is not an example of hypocrisy).

All good translations are based on a "pish-posh" of many different manuscripts. The New World Translation is primarily based on the Westcott and Hort Greek text, but it should be noted that they do reference other manuscripts, papyruses, codices, printed editions, and "recent authoritative publications." They are all listed here:
Introduction — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
 
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