• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Number One Flaw in Cessationism

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by CharismaticLady, Dec 17, 2019.

  1. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

    +646
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    Are you and @Acts2:38 trying to be obtuse or what? ROFL :D

    Read this:

     
  2. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,891
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Isn't the claim that God can't hear us a violation of his omniscience? (all-knowing) I think you mean something besides "hearing".
     
  3. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

    +646
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    No, its scriptural.

    Jeremiah 11:11
    11 Therefore thus says the Lord: “Behold, I will surely bring calamity on them which they will not be able to escape; and though they cry out to Me, I will not listen to them.

    1 John 5:14-15 uses the word hear, but it is like willfully not listening.
     
  4. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,891
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    That's an interesting question about anointing oil for the sick.

    I know many Cessationist churches believe in praying FOR the sick. But fewer actually lay hands on the sick and fewer still will anoint with oil. (too Charismatic/Pentecostal for them)

    Demons? They send their afflicted across town to a Charismatic/Pentecostal church. On the QT of course, no one needs to know. - lol
     
  5. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,891
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I don't think it means God cannot hear them (a violation of his omniscience), more that he will not respond.
     
  6. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

    +646
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    It still means there is no such thing as the answer "No" to receiving something for ourselves.
     
  7. Butch5

    Butch5 Newbie Supporter

    +709
    Christian
    Married
    Before you slam a group of people you should make sure you're correct. The miraculous gifts did cease as Paul indicates in 1 Corinthians.
     
  8. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,891
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Sorry. I'm not convinced.

    Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
    My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
    Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
    So Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?


    Oh Lord, won't you buy me a color TV ?
    Dialing For Dollars is trying to find me.
    I wait for delivery each day until three,
    So oh Lord, won't you buy me a color TV ?


    Oh Lord, won't you buy me a night on the town ?
    I'm counting on you, Lord, please don't let me down.
    Prove that you love me and buy the next round,
    Oh Lord, won't you buy me a night on the town ?


    Everybody!
    Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
    My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends,
    Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
    So oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?


    That's it!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Source: Mercedes Benz - Janis Joplin
     
  9. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

    +646
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    Well they started up again full force didn't they. In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul does say when they would cease - When we see Him FACE TO FACE.
     
  10. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

    +646
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    You're being silly. The three verses written by John tells us we WILL receive what we ask for. But there are conditions. That's what is important to know and be aware of. So how do you think we can know God's will so we will always receive what we ask for?
     
  11. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    What exactly did the foreigners hear? Did they hear a voice in their heads automatically translating the disciples' words or did they hear the disciples themselves speaking their own language. Verse 6 tells us plainly:

    "each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language."​

    They heard the disciples speaking their languages, not a voice in their heads.

    There is no mention of any miracle occuring in the hearing of the foreigners. If there was this great miracle of automatic translation in the ears of the crowd Luke would have told us, not remain silent on such an important fact. Acts is the follow on from his gospel which Luke says is an exact and accurate account of the truth (Luke 1:1-4). He would not be speaking in riddles expecting his readers to read between the lines as to what actually happened. He says the Holy Spirit fell on the disciples and performed a miracle in their speaking, not on the unregenerate crowd in their hearing.

    No, what you are doing is example of eisegesis - the fallacy of starting with a preconceived idea and inventing a novel interpretation of a text to try and make it fit the idea. It is the opposite of exegesis - starting with the text and letting the words speak plainly for themself, applying the established principles of hermeneutics.
     
  12. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

    +646
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    You've got your mind made up, so don't let the facts sway you.
     
  13. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    The facts are plainly presented in Acts 2.
     
  14. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,891
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I advise against telling God what to give us when we have a concern. I prefer to turn it over to him and let him decide what the best solution is. If he wants to give me a fish, I shouldn't pray for a snake.

    And more often than not, instead of changing my SITUATION, he wants to change ME.
     
  15. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

    +646
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate

    Here is the rule called the authority of Scripture:

    1 Corinthians 14:2
    For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

    Now whose interpretation contradicts this Scripture? Yours - yes; mine - no.
     
  16. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    No it doesn't. Read it again. There is no mention of "Him".
     
  17. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

    +646
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    Exactly, we should never pray our own will. So then what SHOULD we do?
     
  18. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

    +646
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    Who are we going to see face to face?
     
  19. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    "face to face" is referring to the analogy of the mirror. When 'completion' comes it would be no longer be like seeing someone dimly in a broken mirror but instead be like seeing someone 'face to face'.
     
  20. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,891
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I thought I just answered that. But it seems you want me to say, pray God's will.

    Saint Steven said:
    I advise against telling God what to give us when we have a concern. I prefer to turn it over to him and let him decide what the best solution is. If he wants to give me a fish, I shouldn't pray for a snake.

    And more often than not, instead of changing my SITUATION, he wants to change ME.
     
  21. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    1 Cor 14:2 doesn't say Corinthian tongues was a non-human language. It says he (whoever it was) was speaking a language that no one in the congregation understood. That doesn't mean it must be non-human. If he was speaking say Persian in a small Greek house church it is no surprise that no one understood. Remember the context of Ch14 is church meetings.
     
Loading...