Null/ please delete

[Bible Highlighter]

But when you said that " I do agree with their view that the New Covenant has been made and it applies to both Jews and Gentiles",

you are also saying that the New Covenant has been made with the Body of Christ correct?

Am I understanding you correctly?

What you say does not make any sense. Does the New Covenant involve the 12 apostles who are Jews? Did God say the Jews are prevented in entering this New Covenant after Christ's resurrection? What do you think happened at Pentecost in Acts chapter 2?

 

[Guojing]

What you say does not make any sense. Does the New Covenant involve the 12 apostles who are Jews? Did God say the Jews are prevented in entering this New Covenant after Christ's resurrection? What do you think happened at Pentecost in Acts chapter 2?

Covenants are made by God with “someone” right?

So if you believe the new covenant had been made already, who is God making it with?

 

[Dave L]

I don't agree with everything they write about the New Covenant. I am only in agreement with their position on how we are under a New Covenant and not the Old Covenant. The intention of God's plan of salvation was to save Israel first. This is why salvation first went out to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Any Jew or Gentile can join the New Covenant today and become a member of the body of Christ, and Israel as a nation will one day repent sometime in the Tribulation before Christ's return. Through the nation of Israel's rejection of their own Messiah to enter into the New Covenant, salvation went to the Gentiles to make them jealous and to join in in their due and proper time. To suggest otherwise is simply not to understand the New Covenant.

The big difference between or understanding is that circumcision made one a physical Jew or physical member of Israel. When Christ abolished it on the cross, that entire group became gentile with Jewish ethnicity. We are to preach the gospel to the whole world (gentiles) until the end of the world which rules out any national restoration of them. But many convert to Christ and belong to biblical Israel as we do.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Covenants are made by God with “someone” right?

So if you believe the new covenant had been made already, who is God making it with?

The New Covenant was made with the 12 apostles and thousands of Jews accepted that New Covenant at Pentecost (Which is the birth of the church). Gentiles are grafted into the original vine (i.e. Israel). Israel as a nation rejected this covenant, but they will come to accept it shortly before Christ's return and their benefits of receiving that covenant in the Tribulation will be seen in the Millennium. This does not mean that the New Covenant is not available to Israel as a nation today. God holds out his hands to a disobedient people. But God simply knows they will not accept it until Christ shortly returns in the Tribulation period. One of the major points of the Tribulation is to get Israel to repent in accepting their Messiah (Jesus Christ).

 

[Guojing]

The New Covenant is available to Israel as a nation today. They simply will not accept it until sometime shortly before Christ returns. Yes, and I believe that as a nation, they will be able to then partake of the New Covenant in the Millennial kingdom or the 1,000 year reign of Christ. That does not mean that just because God prophetically talks about their return with them entering the New Covenant fully in the Millennial kingdom means that God is only offering them the New Covenant at this point to them. It is available to them now because any Jew today can be saved by Jesus Christ and enter into the body of Christ. Are you saying that individual Jews today cannot enter the New Covenant by accepting Christ?



This would be a deliberate twist on Scripture. Nowhere does 1 John 3:9 or 1 John 3 talk prophetically or in a future way for the nation Israel. John is a Jew himself, and he uses the word “we” 21 times in the chapter. So 1 John 3:9 applied to himself in that present moment.

In addition, the apostle Peter was amazed that salvation was going out to the Gentiles and he realized the beautiful truth with Cornelius that God is not a respecter of persons.

Romans 9 to 11 makes it clear to me that the nation of Israel is currently blinded and an enemy with God when it comes to the gospel. So no, God is not relating to them as a nation now.

But individual Jews can still be saved and included in the body of Christ thru Paul’s gospel of grace.

The new covenant, as I have already stated to you, is not cut yet with anyone. God will cut that with the nation Israel after the nation accept him, during the tribulation period

 

[Guojing]

The New Covenant was made with the 12 apostles and thousands of Jews accepted that New Covenant at Pentecost (Which is the birth of the church). Gentiles are grafted into the original vine (i.e. Israel). Israel as a nation rejected this covenant, but they will come to accept it shortly before Christ's return and their benefits of receiving that covenant in the Tribulation will be seen in the Millennium. This does not mean that the New Covenant is not available to Israel as a nation today. God holds out his hands to a disobedient people. But God simply knows they will not accept it until Christ shortly returns in the Tribulation period. One of the major points of the Tribulation is to get Israel to repent in accepting their Messiah (Jesus Christ).

I see, so if I understand you correctly, you believe the new covenant is made with the believing remnant of israel at Pentecost.

And because we gentiles were adopted thru the fall of the nation israel, we are also included.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The big difference between or understanding is that circumcision made one a physical Jew or physical member of Israel. When Christ abolished it on the cross, that entire group became gentile with Jewish ethnicity. We are to preach the gospel to the whole world (gentiles) until the end of the world which rules out any national restoration of them. But many convert to Christ and belong to biblical Israel as we do.

I don't believe there is Jew or Gentile in Christ. Israelites did not become Gentile. They became a part of the member of the body of Christ. While we know Israel will not repent and accept their Messiah until sometime shortly before Christ's return, that does not mean we do not preach to Jews.

 

[Dave L]

I don't believe there is Jew or Gentile in Christ. Israelites did not become Gentile. They became a part of the member of the body of Christ. While we know Israel will not repent and accept their Messiah until sometime shortly before Christ's return, that does not mean we do not preach to Jews.

The point is, we are Israel, and the broken-off are not.

 

[mlepfitjw]

I don't believe that I am part of the 12 tribes of Israel, or a part 144,000 members who kept themselves pure, and non-defiled by women.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Romans 9 to 11 makes it clear to me that the nation of Israel is currently blinded and an enemy with God when it comes to the gospel. So no, God is not relating to them as a nation now.

“As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.” (Romans 11:28).

“I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid.” (Romans 11:1).

But individual Jews can still be saved and included in the body of Christ thru Paul’s gospel of grace.

It's actually the gospel of Jesus Christ. For...

“Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?” (1 Corinthians 1:13).

Do you believe in Mid Acts Dispensationalism?

The new covenant, as I have already stated to you, is not cut yet with anyone. God will cut that with the nation Israel after the nation accept him, during the tribulation period

Question: Has the new covenant been made?

Answer: In the old covenant, God listed numerous laws and promised to drive the Canaanites out of the land (Exodus 20-23). The people agreed to obey God, and Moses sprinkled “the blood of the covenant” on the altar and on the people, finalizing the covenant (Exodus 24:1-8). Even though the covenant had been made, Israel’s relationship with God was only in its beginning stages. They had not yet demonstrated whether they would be obedient, and God had not yet given them the land he had promised.

Hebrews 8:6 tells us that Christ’s covenant “is founded on better promises.” It “was established,” says the King James Version; the New American Standard says it “has been enacted.” In other words, the new covenant has been made. The Greek verb is nomotheteo, meaning “to give or to establish a law” (Louw-Nida lexicon). In Hebrews 8:6, it is in the perfect tense, indicating that something was completed in the past and it continues to have an effect. This verse clearly says that the new covenant has been legally made, and it continues in that legally ratified status.

Analogies, such as the analogy of a covenant as a marriage agreement, cannot negate the clear meaning of Hebrews 8:6. Some of the new covenant promises have not yet been fulfilled, but we have been given a down payment as a guarantee that all the promises will be fulfilled. In contract language, the agreement has been signed, though all the goods have not yet been
delivered.

Covenants were traditionally ratified with the blood of a sacrifice (Genesis 15:8-18; Exodus 24:1-8). The new covenant was also ratified with sacrificial blood. Hebrews 10:29 calls the blood of Jesus the “blood of the [new] covenant,” which has sanctified us, that is, made us holy. His
sacrificial death “has made perfect forever those who are being made holy” (verse 14). The blood of the covenant has been applied to us; the new covenant has been made and ratified. Our relationship with God may have only begun, but it has begun, and it is continuing on the basis of the new covenant, made possible by the blood of Jesus Christ. He is the guarantee and the mediator of the new and better covenant (Hebrews 7:22; 8:6).

Jesus mentioned the new covenant during his last meal with his disciples. The cup of wine represented “the new covenant in my blood” (Luke 22:20). Jesus’ blood, the blood of the new covenant, was poured out for us at the crucifixion, ratifying the new covenant. No one can alter or annul this covenant; it has been made.

Paul wrote that God “has made us…ministers of a new covenant,” which is characterized by God’s Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:3-6). A covenant must be made before it can be administered, and the fact that we have been given the Holy Spirit indicates that the new covenant has already begun to be implemented in us. God’s law is written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit, which guarantees the future promises.

We should live under the terms of the new covenant. The reason we should live this way is that the new covenant has been made.

Source for the words in reply to your last quote within this post:
Has the New Covenant Been Made? | GCI Archive

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The point is, we are Israel, and the broken-off are not.

No. We are not Israel. We are merely grafted onto the tree or vine.

 

[Dave L]

“As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.” (Romans 11:28).

“I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid.” (Romans 11:1).



It's actually the gospel of Jesus Christ.
“Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?” (1 Corinthians 1:13).

Do you believe in Mid Acts Dispensationalism?



Question: Has the new covenant been made?

Answer: In the old covenant, God listed numerous laws and promised to drive the Canaanites out of the land (Exodus 20-23). The people agreed to obey God, and Moses sprinkled “the blood of the covenant” on the altar and on the people, finalizing the covenant (Exodus 24:1-8). Even though the covenant had been made, Israel’s relationship with God was only in its beginning stages. They had not yet demonstrated whether they would be obedient, and God had not yet given them the land he had promised.

Hebrews 8:6 tells us that Christ’s covenant “is founded on better promises.” It “was established,” says the King James Version; the New American Standard says it “has been enacted.” In other words, the new covenant has been made. The Greek verb is nomotheteo, meaning “to give or to establish a law” (Louw-Nida lexicon). In Hebrews 8:6, it is in the perfect tense, indicating that something was completed in the past and it continues to have an effect. This verse clearly says that the new covenant has been legally made, and it continues in that legally ratified status.

Analogies, such as the analogy of a covenant as a marriage agreement, cannot negate the clear meaning of Hebrews 8:6. Some of the new covenant promises have not yet been fulfilled, but we have been given a down payment as a guarantee that all the promises will be fulfilled. In contract language, the agreement has been signed, though all the goods have not yet been
delivered.

Covenants were traditionally ratified with the blood of a sacrifice (Genesis 15:8-18; Exodus 24:1-8). The new covenant was also ratified with sacrificial blood. Hebrews 10:29 calls the blood of Jesus the “blood of the [new] covenant,” which has sanctified us, that is, made us holy. His
sacrificial death “has made perfect forever those who are being made holy” (verse 14). The blood of the covenant has been applied to us; the new covenant has been made and ratified. Our relationship with God may have only begun, but it has begun, and it is continuing on the basis of the new covenant, made possible by the blood of Jesus Christ. He is the guarantee and the mediator of the new and better covenant (Hebrews 7:22; 8:6).

Jesus mentioned the new covenant during his last meal with his disciples. The cup of wine represented “the new covenant in my blood” (Luke 22:20). Jesus’ blood, the blood of the new covenant, was poured out for us at the crucifixion, ratifying the new covenant. No one can alter or annul this covenant; it has been made.

Paul wrote that God “has made us…ministers of a new covenant,” which is characterized by God’s Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:3-6). A covenant must be made before it can be administered, and the fact that we have been given the Holy Spirit indicates that the new covenant has already begun to be implemented in us. God’s law is written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit, which guarantees the future promises.

We should live under the terms of the new covenant. The reason we should live this way is that the new covenant has been made.

Source for the words in replying to last your quote (or the latter half of my post):
Has the New Covenant Been Made? | GCI Archive

Paul used himself as an example for God not casting away his people. 3000 at Pentecost and 5000 a day or so later proves this. But how can you take people, now uncircumcised (gentiles) by Christ, who exist only because of their hatred and rejection of him, and think they are biblical Israel?

 

[Dave L]

No. We are not Israel. We are merely grafted onto the tree or vine.

Christ is Israel according to Paul and Matthew to whom we are grafted into.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul used himself as an example for God not casting away his people. 3000 at Pentecost and 5000 a day or so later proves this. But how can you take people, now uncircumcised (gentiles) by Christ, who exist only because of their hatred and rejection of him, and think they are biblical Israel?

So what about the 144,000?

 

[Dave L]

No. We are not Israel. We are merely grafted onto the tree or vine.

The vine or tree is Israel under Christ.

 

[Dave L]

So what about the 144,000?

Are you a futurist and literalist? You need to clear this up before you can understand Revelation.

 

[Guojing]

“As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.” (Romans 11:28).

“I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid.” (Romans 11:1).



It's actually the gospel of Jesus Christ. For...

“Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?” (1 Corinthians 1:13).

Do you believe in Mid Acts Dispensationalism?



Question: Has the new covenant been made?

Answer: In the old covenant, God listed numerous laws and promised to drive the Canaanites out of the land (Exodus 20-23). The people agreed to obey God, and Moses sprinkled “the blood of the covenant” on the altar and on the people, finalizing the covenant (Exodus 24:1-8). Even though the covenant had been made, Israel’s relationship with God was only in its beginning stages. They had not yet demonstrated whether they would be obedient, and God had not yet given them the land he had promised.

Hebrews 8:6 tells us that Christ’s covenant “is founded on better promises.” It “was established,” says the King James Version; the New American Standard says it “has been enacted.” In other words, the new covenant has been made. The Greek verb is nomotheteo, meaning “to give or to establish a law” (Louw-Nida lexicon). In Hebrews 8:6, it is in the perfect tense, indicating that something was completed in the past and it continues to have an effect. This verse clearly says that the new covenant has been legally made, and it continues in that legally ratified status.

Analogies, such as the analogy of a covenant as a marriage agreement, cannot negate the clear meaning of Hebrews 8:6. Some of the new covenant promises have not yet been fulfilled, but we have been given a down payment as a guarantee that all the promises will be fulfilled. In contract language, the agreement has been signed, though all the goods have not yet been
delivered.

Covenants were traditionally ratified with the blood of a sacrifice (Genesis 15:8-18; Exodus 24:1-8). The new covenant was also ratified with sacrificial blood. Hebrews 10:29 calls the blood of Jesus the “blood of the [new] covenant,” which has sanctified us, that is, made us holy. His
sacrificial death “has made perfect forever those who are being made holy” (verse 14). The blood of the covenant has been applied to us; the new covenant has been made and ratified. Our relationship with God may have only begun, but it has begun, and it is continuing on the basis of the new covenant, made possible by the blood of Jesus Christ. He is the guarantee and the mediator of the new and better covenant (Hebrews 7:22; 8:6).

Jesus mentioned the new covenant during his last meal with his disciples. The cup of wine represented “the new covenant in my blood” (Luke 22:20). Jesus’ blood, the blood of the new covenant, was poured out for us at the crucifixion, ratifying the new covenant. No one can alter or annul this covenant; it has been made.

Paul wrote that God “has made us…ministers of a new covenant,” which is characterized by God’s Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:3-6). A covenant must be made before it can be administered, and the fact that we have been given the Holy Spirit indicates that the new covenant has already begun to be implemented in us. God’s law is written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit, which guarantees the future promises.

We should live under the terms of the new covenant. The reason we should live this way is that the new covenant has been made.

Source for the words in reply to your last quote within this post:
Has the New Covenant Been Made? | GCI Archive

The laws are not currently written on any hearts, all of us still sin.

And pastors are still needed now to teach us to know the Lord.

So no, the new covenant cannot be made now.

But I understand You believe otherwise. That is fine, we can agree to disagree

 

[mlepfitjw]

Well, believe what you wanna. I do not gotta agree. God bless Dave, brother. BibleHighlighter, I believe you are right though, we ourselves are not Israel. We are simply believers in the Lord Christ Yeshua, and Lord God Almighty. As far as my estimation goes.

 

[Guojing]

Well, believe what you wanna. I do not gotta agree. God bless Dave, brother. BibleHighlighter, I believe you are right though, we ourselves are not Israel. We are simply believers in the Lord Christ Yeshua, and Lord God Almighty. As far as my estimation goes.

Israel destiny is on earth during the millennium reign of Christ.

Our destiny, as the body of Christ is in the heavens. I believe we will be replacing the fallen angels.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The vine or tree is Israel under Christ.

No. The tree or vine is Christ, and the natural branches are Israelites, and the grafted in branches are Gentiles.

“I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” (John 15:5).

Israelites are not Gentiles as you claimed earlier. We (Gentiles) are grafted onto the tree or vine of Christ. This is why we are not to boast against the original branches (Israel). For we can also be cut off if we do not continue in His goodness.

“Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?” (Romans 11:18-24).