NT support for a third temple

Status
Not open for further replies.

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,178
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,526.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
We're obviously already beyond the possibility of anyone presenting any clear NT support for the idea of a physical third temple of God being built. Surely, someone would have presented that by now if there was any. We might as well make this thread a free for all to discuss whatever we want at this point. But, I guess that kind of already has happened.
Pretty much. I just I reminder every now and again.
 
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That's discriminatory against those who don't have teeth! ;)
True! That's a good point. We, as Christians, should know better than to discriminate like that. That's another point in favor of creamy peanut butter that I didn't even consider.

Also, I believe Deuteronomy 73:46 says creamy peanut butter is the best type of peanut butter and anyone who disagrees must be stoned to death. I could be wrong on that, but that's what I recall it saying.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Aldebaran
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Also, I believe Deuteronomy 73:46 says creamy peanut butter is the best type of peanut butter and anyone who disagrees must be stoned to death. I could be wrong on that, but that's what I recall it saying.

We only allow Creamy PB in our Home, for as Humble Christians We reject surrounding ourselves in the trappings of such Opulance as Chunky PB... and I won't even LOOK AT the Extra Chunky in the Grocery Store.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,178
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,526.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
We only allow Creamy PB in our Home, for as Humble Christians We reject surrounding ourselves in the trappings of such Opulance as Chunky PB... and I won't even LOOK AT the Extra Chunky in the Grocery Store.
NT support?
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,639
12,105
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟622,572.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
True! That's a good point. We, as Christians, should know better than to discriminate like that. That's another point in favor of creamy peanut butter that I didn't even consider.

Also, I believe Deuteronomy 73:46 says creamy peanut butter is the best type of peanut butter and anyone who disagrees must be stoned to death. I could be wrong on that, but that's what I recall it saying.

That's a law that I wish would have been carried over in the NT.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Spiritual Jew
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
NT support?
Luke 3:5
Every valley shall be filled in, every mountain and hill made low. The crooked roads shall become straight, the rough ways smooth.

I Stand Corrected
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Luke 3:5
I Stand Corrected

Although, This could be our scriptural evidence of my point, that that the chunky ways represent the oppulent temptations of the world, Shimmiring like fine gold, but only offer temporary satisfaction and ultimately lead only to destruction. While the Smooth ways are the Humble ways of the Lord, that lead unto salvation.

Man, this could make for a great Homily....
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I'm not sure how I could have possibly misrepresented your unique view that you have all to yourself when it's so clear and straightforward, as you have so clearly explained here. I'll try not to do it again.

You speak nothing but incoherent nonsense. You didn't bother addressing the point that I made.

I'll try one more time. Can you please actually address what I say here instead of going off on an incoherent tangent? You believe that Zechariah 14:16-19 describes things that occur during the thousand years, right? Do you somehow think that not even one person would refuse to go up to Jerusalem to worship God at that time? If so, why does it warn about people receiving punishment if they don't do that if it won't even be possible for them to refuse to do that?
Can you explain to me where in God's Word, God forced any one to do anything?

Did God force a third of the angels to remain angelic host? Did God force or create angels? Did God force Adam to disobey? Did God force Adam to obey? Were there consequences for Adam's disobedience?

You are still assuming the wrong criteria of the Millennium. Does God punish Egypt now for not going up to Jerusalem each year? Has God ever punished Egypt in that way? If you think this applies to the NHNE, ask your self the same question. Now what is your answer?
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Sin, as a state of Being, Is eternal. It does nto stop. That is the Point indeed.
We are Born into it, and unless we repent, we never escape. Not ever.
Repentance brings Forgiveness as through repentance we SHARE in Christ's VICTORY over Sin.
The only way out of The State of Sin we are Born into is repentance and belief.
Death does not remove the unrepentant unbeliever from the sin state he is born into.
Sin is not eternal. Sin entered the world. God can remove sin from the world. Sin is part of knowing good and evil, because the act of sin produces evil. And to God even thinking sin is the same as acting out sin.

Death removes one from the physical, and sin can only affect the physical. Is sin the punishment or just a side consequence of knowledge? What purpose does sin have as a punishment especially in sheol or the lake of fire? Will they have any knowledge of good, or only evil?

Repentance and belief does not eradicate sin. If that were the case sin would cease to exist for many people, yet in this dead corruptible flesh, sin is still present and constant. Paul said to crucify the flesh, death, no? Do we ever let up in this crucifixion, or can claim sinless perfection?

Death removes the unrepentant from the knowledge of what is good. Sin is a mute point. Instead just constant punishment. At least they do not have to worry about sinning any more. If sin brings pleasure and enjoyment to the flesh, how is constantly sinning in sheol constant punishment?

The only way to stop acting out sin is to leave this corruptible body and enter the permanent incorruptible physical body. The body that Adam was created with, before Adam disobeyed God and physically died, and obtained this corruptible body known as Adam's flesh and blood. After Seth, humanity was in Adam's corruptible image, no longer the image of God as sons of God.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Can you explain to me where in God's Word, God forced any one to do anything?
When did I say He did? How does this question have anything to do with what I said?

Did God force a third of the angels to remain angelic host? Did God force or create angels? Did God force Adam to disobey? Did God force Adam to obey? Were there consequences for Adam's disobedience?
How do these questions have anything to do with what I said in my post?

You are still assuming the wrong criteria of the Millennium. Does God punish Egypt now for not going up to Jerusalem each year? Has God ever punished Egypt in that way? If you think this applies to the NHNE, ask your self the same question. Now what is your answer?
Why do you ask a bunch of questions without answering any of mine first? Can you just answer one simple question? My understanding is that you believe Zechariah 14 describes things that would occur during "the Millennium" after Christ's return. So, if anyone refused to go up to Jerusalem to worship God during that time, do you think that would be a sin or not? The issue I was trying to talk to you about was whether there would be sin during that time or not (you say there won't be), so that's what I'm trying to get you to address.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
What would be different about those unbelievers who you think He will not take vengeance on at that time compared to the unbelievers that He will take vengeance on at that time? If this distinction between unbelievers is going to be made when Christ returns, why didn't Paul mention that?

Also, since you have people going from being deceived to no longer being deceived when Christ returns, does that mean you believe those people will be saved? If so, that would mean they would be saved some other way than by freely choosing to believe in Christ. That's not something that I would think someone who believes in NOSAS would believe.
If Jesus Christ does not choose an unbeliever based on works, then why the separation of sheep and goats merely by doing good works?

I get that you spiritualize works and that goats just don't have any, but that is not not how it is written.

"Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me."

Who goes around not doing anything? These people probably thought they were doing things, or putting them off, thinking they were already done. Even the ones who were doing these things, did not do it for eternal reward. They just did it because it was a humane thing to do. It was not working out one's faith, because these sheep had no faith, or they would have been in Paradise and not still on earth after the Second Coming. They even had to ask, "wait, what?" They had no clue.

Amil miss the point about a post Second Coming time on earth. They incinerated earth and have to add a resurrection to the OD, where none was ever implied, nor expressed. These sheep and goats are this part of Israel that you all refuse to allow into the body of Christ known as the church. They are the branch that God is now going to put back, but not all of them are going to make it. All of Israel are not of Israel. None of these are the 144k either. That is a separate group of Israel for a certain purpose related to gathering these lost sheep of Israel.

This is the final harvest post Second Coming, because Christ will physically be present on earth to gather and sow, exactly like He did at the first coming. This time around Satan will have nothing to loose by showing his face in opposition. Some people will still never see him as the devil, but as an angel of light created by God. Looking like a lamb, but with the voice of a dragon, who knows his time is short.
 
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If Jesus Christ does not choose an unbeliever based on works, then why the separation of sheep and goats merely by doing good works?
Why do you ask questions in response to questions instead of first answering the questions? You're fooling yourself if you think I'm going to answer your questions while you ignore mine and don't bother answering mine. If that's how you want to do things then it would be best for you to not waste your time responding to me anymore. I'm not interested in one way discussions where only one of us bothers addressing the other's points and answering the other's questions.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,178
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,526.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
If Jesus Christ does not choose an unbeliever based on works, then why the separation of sheep and goats merely by doing good works?

Since we are so off topic and nobody has adequately answered the OP, I’ll take this.

He didn’t separate due to good works. He separated them because some were sheep and some were goats. Then He gives the evidence. The sheep acted like sheep, and the goats acted like goats.
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
We're obviously already beyond the possibility of anyone presenting any clear NT support for the idea of a physical third temple of God being built. Surely, someone would have presented that by now if there was any. We might as well make this thread a free for all to discuss whatever we want at this point. But, I guess that kind of already has happened.
It is right there in Matthew 25. Most people are so dead set in their eschatology, they will never see it.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
We only allow Creamy PB in our Home, for as Humble Christians We reject surrounding ourselves in the trappings of such Opulance as Chunky PB... and I won't even LOOK AT the Extra Chunky in the Grocery Store.
Chunky is the natural, God formed way. Creamy is just man made added oils that destroy the body.
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
When did I say He did? How does this question have anything to do with what I said?

How do these questions have anything to do with what I said in my post?

Why do you ask a bunch of questions without answering any of mine first? Can you just answer one simple question? My understanding is that you believe Zechariah 14 describes things that would occur during "the Millennium" after Christ's return. So, if anyone refused to go up to Jerusalem to worship God during that time, do you think that would be a sin or not? The issue I was trying to talk to you about was whether there would be sin during that time or not (you say there won't be), so that's what I'm trying to get you to address.

I am going by your words. Do you not go by your words?

Do you somehow think that not even one person would refuse to go up to Jerusalem to worship God at that time? If so, why does it warn about people receiving punishment if they don't do that if it won't even be possible for them to refuse to do that?

What do you mean, won't even be possible for them to refuse?

The Millennium is not some sort of mind control where all are robots. Nor will be a place where sin or sin nature can exist. It is like but not exactly the NHNE. If you cannot comprehend life before sin, how can I explain it to you?

Sin did not exist in the Garden nor any where on earth prior to Adam eating. No one sinned. No one had a sin nature. The Garden was God's temple on earth. Adam was to be the priest, as was all of his family for 8000 years. That lasted for about 30 years. Disobedience is not sin, until sin was granted. God told Adam that he would die, ie become full of sin. It was Adam who brought sin into the world. The name of the tree introduced a choice between good and evil. You are looking at the Millennium with the knowledge of good and evil. Try looking at the Millennium with only the knowledge of God's perfect will. It is not sin to disobey. It is Disobedience to not obey.

Now that sin was in the world, God warned Cain not to allow it into the Garden. When Cain killed Abel, that brought sin into the Garden. God did not specifically tell Cain murder was a sin nor being disobedient. Even hating his brother was wrong according to God. God told Cain not to let sin in. If God and Cain could sit down and talk with each other about Cain's attitude, that is a closer relationship than most so called Christians have with God. There was no sin separating them. Yet Cain lost control any ways. Cain was not forced to do anything. You claim, "if it won't even be possible".

Why would it not be possible for Egypt to show up or not show up? That is a direct command. If it was an impossibility, why have a direct rule. We are not told why they would not, but it is not because of sin. It is direct Disobedience. If you cannot see the difference, it is because you cannot see anything out side of the knowledge of good and evil. It does take some thinking to know what only good is, but knowing only good, does not remove free will. If there are laws, it does not mean no Disobedience. The difference is that Death has not been defeated. So breaking a law will be instant Death. Except it seems some laws have less dire circumstances, than killing a whole nation, because those in charge were too lazy to send a delegation one year.

Apply OT Millennium prophecy to those who did not even have a NT nor the knowledge of the Cross and the Atonement. Can you even get into that mindset, where God does not even have grace when His people disobey God? All they had were cursings or blessings.

Can God allow cursing and blessing in a sin free environment? If you cannot see life without sin post Cross, how did they in the OT see life without sin way before the Cross? Did the Cross totally remove sin from this earth? That is what some posters here claim. What do you do with these verses:

(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead...)

What does it mean to not impute sin? Before the law no one was charged? No one was guilty? No one could disobey God? How does that even work in your paradigm? What is sin that is not breaking a direct law? Can a law be broken even without sin present? They all were dead in sin, but they were free to live as they pleased without any direct laws. I guess some claim the Noahide laws. But those were not direct commands compared to the Law of Moses. Mostly dietary.

The more laws there are to curb free will, the less liberty there is for the individual. Now just remove sin totally. There can still be direct commands. There can still be consequences. What is missing is the knowledge of evil. Now is withholding rain evil, or a minor discomfort? Some areas on earth get little rain, and people survive. Some places get too much rain, and people still survive. Compared to perfection and ideals some may think it pure evil to loose a little rain. Cannot think evil in the Millennium, so I have no clue what a perfectionist or idealist will think about. Maybe just a blank thought process all the time as thinking would be too redundant?
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Why do you ask questions in response to questions instead of first answering the questions? You're fooling yourself if you think I'm going to answer your questions while you ignore mine and don't bother answering mine. If that's how you want to do things then it would be best for you to not waste your time responding to me anymore. I'm not interested in one way discussions where only one of us bothers addressing the other's points and answering the other's questions.
Asking questions is not as rude as you put it. It is a way to get people into a certain point of thought. You on the other hand refuse to think, as all you see is me being rude. I have answered your questions, and when I did, you never even addressed the answers. All I get is the pat answer of, "you got nothing." I would prefer a hundred questions, to a one sided argument: "you have nothing".

Are you all being rude when you all just post 100 questions? Are you all having a one sided conversation with those post? It is a way of only looking at things from your particular view. Which is usually an erroneous view to begin with. It is a way to set the point though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: keras
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Since we are so off topic and nobody has adequately answered the OP, I’ll take this.

He didn’t separate due to good works. He separated them because some were sheep and some were goats. Then He gives the evidence. The sheep acted like sheep, and the goats acted like goats.
That is the pat answer. It is not taking anything else into consideration. You base the circumstance solely on the works part. You miss all the other points.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,178
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,526.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
That is the pat answer. It is not taking anything else into consideration. You base the circumstance solely on the works part. You miss all the other points.
It’s not a pat answer. It’s right in the text.


All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
— Matthew 25:32-33
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.