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Now electric vehicles are BAD for the environment

Discussion in 'News & Current Events (Articles Required)' started by Aldebaran, Dec 5, 2021.

  1. Yttrium

    Yttrium Independent Centrist

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    I'm always worried about what they do with the old batteries. Recycle them? They aren't really environment friendly.
     
  2. trunks2k

    trunks2k Contributor

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    Yes, they get recycled.
     
  3. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

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    I can't find the article anymore but it concerns an invention that turns ambient or latent heat of air or water or any liquid into other forms of energy and also dropping the temperature of the air or water at the same time.

    The device operates on the basic principle of "Quantum Tunneling" using a special semiconductor barrier. Molecules bouncing around air or water would hit the surface of this barrier, transferring kinetic energy to an electron which causes the electron to "tunnel" across the barrier. Molecules that loses kinetic energy to electrons also loses heat and thus, becomes colder in temperature. The barrier emits infra red radiation at the other end but can also be tweaked to generate electricity.

    The process is negative entropy because "chaos" in the random movement of air or water molecules in the form of ambient heat becomes more "ordered" by losing heat at the semiconductor barrier without any form of energy input.

    The inventors never makes any claim their device can be used to generate energy but did claim their device makes chilled water without energy input.:rolleyes: It's essentially the same thing! Normally, you can't chill water without energy input but with negative entropy, you can. It has dramatic implication for energy use.

    We can have many great potential inventions from the field of quantum physics but they usually end up being used in much less spectacular and benign applications like secured transmission of electronic data or like the example above, to chill water.

    Unfortunately, humans tend to fear big changes even if they can be quite positive.
     
  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    Or, just maybe, it could have been pure hokum for the ignorant.
     
  5. Whyayeman

    Whyayeman Well-Known Member

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    Please tell me you have understood this yourself. Otherwise I might have to agree with the poster who said this below:

    just maybe, it could have been pure hokum for the ignorant.

    EV batteries are sealed units. When they lose efficiency they are still good for other uses and they still contain the same amount of lithium. The metal will ultimately be recycled into new EV batteries. In any case the main metal used in EVs is iron. It too is straightforward to recycle.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  6. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +14,497
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    Another option is expansion of public transit.

    That's difficult to do in America, though. It would mean abandoning many cities that are nearly unreformable due to the sheer amount of sprawl.
     
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    ???? I was not responding to a claim on batteries. I was responding to the quantum woo that you just responded to.
     
  8. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli Amongst the Joshua Trees Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    I'm pretty certain he's saying he agrees with you, if you look at it differently.
     
  9. Whyayeman

    Whyayeman Well-Known Member

    +1,138
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    Sorry. I have edited to make my intention clearer - I hope.
     
  10. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    IOW, we will have to lower our standards and sacrifice progress.
     
  11. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    Not when you take into consideration the energy loss through all those long power lines, which is what you have with a centralized source. The grid is already overworked, hence the rolling blackouts we're already seeing. Add vehicles powered on electric, and the workload on the grid will make the electricity for your car, home, business and anything else that relies on it unreliable.
     
  12. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    I already ride a bicycle when the destination is within a couple miles of home, and I don't need to carry much that won't fit in a backpack. Beyond that, and when Winter comes, a bicycle won't cut it. And yes, a bicycle can be ridden in Winter too. I do it. But still only limited distance. Road salt in Winter is murder on a bike as well.
     
  13. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    Just don't be on video twirling the reigns or you'll end up on the news.
     
  14. trunks2k

    trunks2k Contributor

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    To my knowledge it's STILL more efficient & cleaner (in almost the entire world, there's some areas with very dirty energy production).

    The environmental cost with EVs is the upfront build cost, which is currently higher than an ICE. But in terms of a per-mile driven, EVs are the cleaner, more efficient option almost everywhere. One would expect the up front environmental cost for EVs to improve over time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  15. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    There are other things to take into consideration when it comes to efficiency. Batteries don't work so well in cold weather. Where I am right now, the highest temperature of the day is 10F. Batteries don't hold a charge so well, and discharge at a faster rate, and charging them when cold shortens their lifespan. Relying on solar for electricity generation in Winter isn't so good either since Winter is cloudier and has a lower sun angle.
    Take all this together with increasing energy prices due to natural resources being regulated more by the government, and the price goes up even more, just as Obama promised.
     
  16. trunks2k

    trunks2k Contributor

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    We've had EVs for years now - we have a good idea of their lifespan. To my knowledge, if anythin, we're underestimating battery lifespan. Yes, cold weather can reduce range, but that's an issue of convenience. Everything we've seen thus far is they are the cleaner, more efficient option over the life of the vehicle.
    Not really sure what that has to do with anything. Personally, I say we should be using nuclear as the primary electricity source.

    And? Cost of fuel goes up for ICE too. But can an ICE take advantage of non-fossil fuel energy?
     
  17. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    Don't expect any expansion of nuclear power plants anytime soon. But I agree that it's probably the best source. I've heard that the technology to make it safer has dramatically improved. Now, if the government would look at that and allow it to happen.
    The reason I mentioned solar is because that seems to be one of the big "green" sources of power that's supposed to replace coal and oil.

    It's only going up due to manufactured shortages. Keystone XL could have brought in 900,000 more gallons per day. Now it brings in nothing.
    What does ICE mean? By the context, I assume it means a gas powered vehicle, but google didn't show it.
     
  18. Larnievc

    Larnievc Well-Known Member

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    You link says the EV batteries weigh 440kg. They don’t they weigh about 10kg.

    Edit: I’m reliably informed the above post is inaccurate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  19. trunks2k

    trunks2k Contributor

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    Maybe individual cells weigh that much, but there's no way an EV batter weighs only 10KG.

    ETA: The battery of a long range Tesla Model 3 weighs 480KG
     
  20. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    Speaking of weight, the entire car weighs more, which would not be good for the people in the other vehicle in an accident:
    Electric vehicles weigh more and that has implications for safety - CNN
     
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