Nothing lewd found at Florida drag show, undercover agents confirm.

[Larniavc]

Have you seen one go from male for length of time, to female for a length of time, then back to male?

Are you talking about changing clothes or changing gender through chemo and surgery?

 

[Belk]

That's probably because you don't really look into it. There are probably many who defend it, who don't really know much about it.

Allow me to propose an alternative hypothesis. You are not hearing what those on the other side are actually saying and instead have a character that is filtered through the media you consume. Which do you believe to be more likely, that your opponents are completely irrational and evil or you are not correctly understanding what their position is?

 

[FireDragon76]

Drag Queens are Transvestites. There's a difference between Tyler Perry playing Madia and a Drag Queen. Just like there's a difference between someone wearing a costume and a Furry. If you look up images or videos of Pride parades going back 20, 30, 40 years ago, you'll most likely see plenty of Transvestites/Drag-Queens. I seriously doubt there are many Drag Queens who aren't LGBTQQIP2SAA+.

"Transvestite" is an imprecise term that could cover a wide variety of things.

Drag traditionally was performed by gay men, and it's part of gay culture. That's why you might see it in Pride parades.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

From you own quote.

Probably. Fortunately, Ron DeSantis kindly provided trained undercover officers with knowledge of the local laws to make a determination.

Right... indecency typically has a definable legal standard in most states. For instance, in my own state:

Section 2907.09 - Ohio Revised Code | Ohio Laws

codes.ohio.gov

"Age appropriate" with regards to things that don't fall into that legally defined standard are typically "in the eye of the beholder" and are subject to a less rigid standard.

Sort of like the movie ratings system.

While Ratings R and NC-17 both refer a similar age as a cutoff, the former will allow for parents to accompany their kids to see it if they think it's okay, as to where the latter will not allow parents to take kids into a theater to see it even if they wanted to.


Obviously they didn't spot anything that legally constituted "lewd" or "indecent" behavior.

But I think most reasonable people could probably agree that people taking their kid to Screwdolph the Red-Nippled Man Deer with things like oiled up dudes in speedos humping another person dressed in a double-d cup deer costume and a thong is a peculiar choice.

Much like it would've been a rather odd choice for a parent to take their kids to see the movie Striptease with Demi Moore back in the day or 50 shades of grey. (although someone could legally do it)

 

[Larniavc]

But I think most reasonable people could probably agree that people taking their kid to Screwdolph the Red-Nippled Man Deer with things like oiled up dudes in speedos humping another person dressed in a double-d cup deer costume and a thong is a peculiar choice.

But if it's not lewd what is the problem?

Much like it would've been a rather odd choice for a parent to take their kids to see the movie Striptease with Demi Moore back in the day or 50 shades of grey. (although someone could legally do it I guess)

The former is a 15 and the latter is an 18. So no, kids could not legally go. But they can to the drag show so I guess your position is out of step with modern American culture?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

But if it's not lewd what is the problem?


The former is a 15 and the latter is an 18. So no, kids could not legally go. But they can to the drag show so I guess your position is out of step with modern American culture?

Perhaps you guys use a different ratings system across the pond (or have different rules surrounding them)

Here in the US, both movies were rated R

So parents could've legally taken their kids to either movie. (and likely gotten some puzzled looks from other movie goers)

 

[Larniavc]

Perhaps you guys use a different ratings system across the pond (or have different rules surrounding them)

Here in the US, both movies were rated R
View attachment 329298

So parents could've legally taken their kids to either movie. (and likely gotten some puzzled looks from other movie goers)

It’s different here.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Are you talking about changing clothes or changing gender through chemo and surgery?

That's not not necessary to be Trans. And they don't get chemo, that's a treatment for cancer.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Allow me to propose an alternative hypothesis. You are not hearing what those on the other side are actually saying and instead have a character that is filtered through the media you consume. Which do you believe to be more likely, that your opponents are completely irrational and evil or you are not correctly understanding what their position is?

Nope. It comes from the horse's mouth. That's always the best source of info regarding any group.

 

[Larniavc]

That's not not necessary to be Trans. And they don't get chemo, that's a treatment for cancer.

In your own words what does ‘Trans’ mean in this context?

 

[FireDragon76]

That's not not necessary to be Trans. And they don't get chemo, that's a treatment for cancer.

Chemotherapy is actually a generic term for any chemical intervention in medicine. It doesn't refer just to cancer treatments.

 

[Ceallaigh]

In your own words what does ‘Trans’ mean in this context?

It means identifying as another gender. Since that's contained within the mind, no change in outward appearance is necessary.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Chemotherapy is actually a generic term for any chemical intervention in medicine. It doesn't refer just to cancer treatments.

Technically maybe, but I've never "chemo" used for any other treatment. What kind of chemicals does it take to manufacture a transgender person?

 

[Larniavc]

It means identifying as another gender. Since that's contained within the mind, no change in outward appearance is necessary.

And what about a drag Queen? Is a drag Queen Trans?

 

[Larniavc]

What kind of chemicals does it take to manufacture a transgender person?

Hormones. How can anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of biology not know that?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Hormones. How can anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of biology not know that?

I already mentioned hormone treatment. But hormone treatment is usually called "hormone treatment" or "hormone therapy" rather than "chemo" or "chemical treatments".

 

[Ceallaigh]

"Transvestite" is an imprecise term that could cover a wide variety of things.

Drag traditionally was performed by gay men, and it's part of gay culture. That's why you might see it in Pride parades.

The whole thing has become imprecise and means a variety of things.

I was pointed out you can find images of drag queens at pride parades going back a lot further then 20 years ago.

But I agree, quite a lot has changed over the last 20 years, and it's still in the process of change

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It’s different here.

I think perhaps the pattern of escalation is getting lost on some folks.

For that, I think the conservative side takes a good chunk of the blame for "crying wolf" too early. (which caused everyone to rush their battle stations, "pick a side", and dig in)

The original event that started the whole drag show debate was an isolated event at a library with a drag queen reading cat in the hat. I even said at that point that conservatives were making a mountain out of a mole hill. Which is why, if you look at my postings on this subject pre-2020, they were very different and I was on the side of the drag performers

Examples:

After pro-family campaign, GA library drops drag queen storytime for kids

I don't see how reading about real issues would be scary. And is you don't want kids to be scared. Then we better slip allowing them to read the bible. Or learn about the world. Did you read my posts and what i was responding to here in this post? What has what you just posted got to do with...

www.christianforums.com

Canadian SC: Christian law school can't forbid students from gay sex

You'll have to give a little more detail as to what you're referring to? When you say "media platform" you mean radio/TV/movies? If so, those are 100% optional and nobody is being forced to consume any of those media platforms if they don't want to. Stopping someone else from doing what they...

www.christianforums.com

TransGender library story time hour lawsuit tossed out by Judge.

Been banging my head on that wall for years. Trump's morals or supposed lack thereof has absolutely nothing to do about the issues we elected him to enact. Stormy Daniels has nothing to do with a wall. Stupid comments have nothing to do with immigration reform and so on. Ordinarily I would...

www.christianforums.com

I was still even on that side when the book selections shifted from "Cat in the hat" to some books promoting tolerance. I was still okay with innocent enough book selections like "hey, another kid in class may have a mom who's married to another woman instead of a man, and that's no reason to treat them badly, they're people like you and me"


However, by that point time, the debate had already been framed in the context of
Support of the drag performances = "LGBT inclusion"
Any objection to it = "Conservative pearl clutching, nothing to it, just dismiss it as them overreacting"


The framing of the debate has stayed the same, despite the fact that the content and circumstances have changed, so the aforementioned pattern of escalation has been ignored or swept under the rug

It went
1) Drag performers reading common staple children's books to kids
2) Drag performers reading newer books that promote tolerance
3) Drag performers reading activism books that encourage 10 year olds to "explore their gender fluidity"
4) Screwdolph The Red Nippled Man-Deer with oiled dudes grinding up on another guy wearing a busty reindeer costume in a tax payer funded venue.

Some folks are still referring to it as if we're talking about #1, when #4 is something very different. People being uncomfortable #4 shouldn't be viewed as the same kind of "pearl clutching" that was happening with #1.

And the advocacy side of this debate isn't necessarily winning any new converts by basically making (what was originally thought of) "the other side's slippery slope fallacy" become a reality.

 

[Belk]

Nope. It comes from the horse's mouth. That's always the best source of info regarding any group.

Since I am one of the mouths I don't believe you. The views you expressed do not represent me or anyone I know.

 

[rjs330]

Since when isn't simulated sex acts with half naked men not lewd? Man, have we lost it.