Notes on Rev 20 & Ez 38 & 39

[Midst]

Midst,

I do not know if I am right but I think that we are at the less than one year point prior to The Appointed Time of The End. This Appointed Time will begin with sudden destruction out of the clear blue sky and then conclude with the Armageddon showdown. Then we will spend 1000 literal years safe in our Father's House, the one with many rooms, before Jesus brings us all back to Earth when the Revelation equivalent of the Gog & MaGog showdown will occur. I say Revelation equivalent because I think that the Ezekiel story got sealed up during the 70 weeks of Daniel 9.

Remember "to seal both vision and prophet". God had three prophets operating at the same time but He seemed to be giving them different game plans. Did you ever wonder why we don't hear things in the Revelation story like "the young child will put its hand into the viper's nest" or "use the weapons for fuel and burn them up--the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel."

Two visions and two end time prophetic schematics were in play at one point, not anymore. The 70 weeks were the fork in the road for two different prophetic paradigms. Yes there are parallels, but the Daniel and Revelation story doesn't seem to mix too well with old Ezekiel and Jeremiah.

(I have just found out that I am a Partial Zionist. I believe that the Jewish people returning to Israel in 1948 was a prophetic signpost but nothing more)

I expect something very big to happen before this year ends. Here, however, I should state that the Jewish calender is closer to what I am regarding, rather then the Gregorian Calender.

You raise some interesting points, such as on the sealing of a prophecy, and how three prophets *seem* to have said different things though all working at the very same time.

One thing this does tell us is there is something specific about the situation going on with Israel at that time.

Which would pertain to these future events.


I am not as confident as you are on these specifics: on this being before the thousand years, on spending the thousand years 'in the father's house' (I am not sure what you even mean by that), nor on what, specifically may happen before this year is up.

Again, for me, that ends around next August, not this coming January.


The one year timeline I have from a word of prophecy given to me. It was given in circumstances that have persuaded me it is true. However, I have no specifics on the matter. I expect, at best, at this juncture, that whatever will happen will be on a scale of magnitude unlike anything the earth has ever seen before.

 

[Interplanner]

What gets destroyed in that sudden destruction out of nowhere? How can there be armies that fight after it?

 

[Interplanner]

Midst,
I urge you to ignore private prophecy like you're speaking of.

In 1981 there was the big flop. The most "blessed" prophecy scholar with a "fantastic" turnaround testimony was positive that 1948 plus 40 minus 7 was the beginning of the LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH. He sold millions. He helped launch TBN. How could he be wrong? How could it not be from God? He had environmentalists vouching for him!!!

Nothing happened.

The Bible is not a "safe" Nostradamus text, nor a "sacred" one that we are supposed to set a calendar by. It is for making people aware of the day of judgement of God, and happily of the Gospel of God era which we are now in which saves us. If those are accomplished/communicated (as they are in Rom 1-5) that is sufficient. Everything else is hooey. You may have some inside knowledge about economics or medical things or a near hit by an asteroid but it is not what the Bible is for.

Remember, all those copies sold, "words" recieved, experts consulted and absolutely nothing happened.

 

[Danoh]

I knew a guy back in the early 90's who wrote a booklet back then having to do with sixteen reasons or some such why the Rapture was going to take place back then, in September, or whatever.

He'd gone into debt big time in order to support himself financially.

I was already Mid-Acts Dispensational, Pre-Trib, Cessationist, etc.

From my view, the guy is off his rocker. So I ask him about all that debt and he replies he won't be here, and that he's doing the Lord's work, that the Spirit led him, yadda, yadda..

The date comes and goes.... no Rapture...

His arms went up, though... in despair...

Yeah, there are fools like that out there...

But to use something like that to prove the Pre-Trib Rapture unsound, well, that is as unsound as that booklet "rapturist" was even before he got into his date setting foolishness...

 

[Interplanner]

But as you may have noticed, there is no other direction to go with it. It would be better if it was never considered.

Gosh, now you have said you are another position of which I have no clue to your meaning. Are you referring to the Spirit not working? How can that be when modern Israel has to have outpourings of the Spirit to be the real prophecy fulfillment everyone says it is?

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Bible2]

vinsight4u said in post 26:

church/saints return out of heaven as armies

Note that 1 Thessalonians 3:13 and 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 show that at Jesus' 2nd coming, the souls of all obedient dead believers of all times will be brought down from the 3rd heaven with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15), and their souls will descend to the earth and their physical bodies will resurrect/rise from their graves (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Then they and all believers who will survive the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 on the earth (those who will still be "alive and remain") will be raptured up high into the air above the places all around the globe where they will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17a), and then they will be gathered together from the sky (the 1st heaven) all around the globe (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) to the one place in the sky where the returned Jesus will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17b), which will be right above Jerusalem, before he sets his feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5, Acts 1:11-12).

It is because of this 2nd-coming rapture into the sky, and then the gathering to where in the sky Jesus will be (and then the marriage of the obedient part of the church there to Jesus: Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), that the obedient part of the church will already be with Jesus when he subsequently descends from the sky (the 1st heaven) to the earth (Revelation 19:14, Revelation 17:14, Zechariah 14:5c,4).

 

[Interplanner]

There are no Judaic events in the 2nd coming. No NT passage in ordinary exposition of the event mentions any. The Thess material was how they understood the DofJ was going to unfold, with the evil guy in the standing temple, and the wrath spoken of in past tense. But since the Father delayed the 2nd coming, the DofJ's events of wrath unfolded slightly different.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I expect something very big to happen before this year ends. Here, however, I should state that the Jewish calender is closer to what I am regarding, rather then the Gregorian Calender.

You raise some interesting points, such as on the sealing of a prophecy, and how three prophets *seem* to have said different things though all working at the very same time.

One thing this does tell us is there is something specific about the situation going on with Israel at that time.

Which would pertain to these future events.


I am not as confident as you are on these specifics: on this being before the thousand years, on spending the thousand years 'in the father's house' (I am not sure what you even mean by that), nor on what, specifically may happen before this year is up.

Again, for me, that ends around next August, not this coming January.


The one year timeline I have from a word of prophecy given to me. It was given in circumstances that have persuaded me it is true. However, I have no specifics on the matter. I expect, at best, at this juncture, that whatever will happen will be on a scale of magnitude unlike anything the earth has ever seen before.

I should have said less than 12 months, I didn't mean to imply this year. I expect something very big to happen next spring. I also make connections with God's Jubilee calendar. Next year on the vernal equinox, the first day of spring, which will also be Nissan 1 or new year's day on God's calendar, there will be a total solar eclipse. During the 51 days that follow this I will be on Red Alert.

I see The Fig Tree of 1948 as a prophetic sign post and nothing more, like Jesus said: “May no fruit ever come from you again!”

"In my Father's house are many rooms.
If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again and will take you to myself,
that where I am you may be also"

I remember reading this as a kid and it always seemed crystal clear to me that Jesus is telling us He is leaving in the 1st century to go to His Father's House that has many rooms to prepare a place for us.

Then He will come back HERE again and take us to Himself,
that where He IS we may BE THERE also.

This seems to me to be the place where Jesus will be reigning WITH The Saints for 1000 years, the New Jerusalem. This is why we must meet The Lord in the air. This is why The Lord's return is like lightning flashing from the EAST to the west, He doesn't touch His feet down on this trip and it happens FAST. Behold I come QUICKLY. The Earth will need to have a millennial day of rest from sin before The Kings from the EAST, The Father and The Son, can touch down on the surface. Then after the 1000 years are over, He brings us and New Jerusalem back here for the Judgment Day of the rest of the dead.

I expect that the next event in the prophetic time line, The Appointed Time of The End, will be on a scale of magnitude unlike anything the Earth has ever seen since the flood. I am afraid that there is an extremely high chance for this to begin in a mater of days after the first day of next spring. I do not like saying that, if nothing happens I will enjoy another summer.

I'm not a member of any theological group. I don't go to church because I can't find one in my area. I'm just doing everything that I possibly can to get Holy fast. Since finding this thing in the third week of July 2013, I have become a devout Fourth Commandment keeper, I won't even start a car on that day. I'll give 20 bucks to a panhandler without hesitation and if there was a neighbor that I was having a feud with, I'd fix it real fast.

I don't think anyone will make it to The Last Day by chance or their own preparedness. The people still standing at that time will be hand picked by God for the purpose of witnessing The Second Coming.


"For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell
on the face of the whole earth.
Watch therefore, and pray always
that you may be counted worthy to escape
all these things that will come to pass,
and to stand before the Son of Man.”

"Because you have kept my word about PATIENT ENDURANCE,
I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming
on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth"

"Here is the PATIENT ENDURANCE of the saints,
those who keep the commandments of God and the faith in Jesus"



Notice He said "( I ) will keep you from" and that some will be "counted worthy to escape".
Most will be tested during an hour of trial which will come as a snare on all those who dwell
on the face of the whole earth.






When I cross over
I will shout and sing
I will know my Savior
By the mark where the nails have been

By the mark where the nails have been
By the sign upon His precious skin
I will know my Savior when I come to Him
By the mark where the nails have been


"By The Mark"
GILLIAN WELCH

 

[Dave Watchman]

DaveW,
can you support anything in your first paragraph?

I'm sure that I could in theory but it's just more difficult trying to explain it to a Preterist, not that there's anything wrong with that. I didn't mean that to sound the wrong way.
The tree prophetic time periods from Daniel 12 are the keys in establishing the Revelation time line. If we got stuck, and I'm sure we would or did already, on when these times occur it would seem an impossible task from the beginning.
The large number (1335) seems to have a relationship with the solar and lunar cycle and may lead one to finding the eclipses from Joel 2:31<-------and ------->Matthew 24:29. I've already checked and this relationship was not anywhere to be found from AD66 to AD70.

How is there sudden destruction and then enough people left to do an Armadeddon showdown?

There are different types of destruction and we've got about 7 billion people now. There are four earthquakes in Revelation,(1 is mentioned twice), the first one will come as a surprise when people are saying "peace and safety" and cause "sudden destruction" but will not totally destroy the planet. I do not know what causes "all the Saints" to be praying at the same time in Rev. 8. Is it some fearsome thing that mankind does like setting off a nuke? All I can know is that a few days after the earthquake that results from the casting down of the censer, we get hit by something from space.

When this fiery hail that rains down from the heavens causes more destruction, it will only burn up one third of the trees and green grass.
If the initial destruction done by the opening of this Fourth Seal causes 25% loss of life, then at The Sixth Trumpet Lucifer is enabled to kill one third of who remains, there will still be 3.5 billion. It sounds like a mess but there will still be enough people for the Armageddon showdown.

Why would we spend 1000 years somewhere else with our Father (while Christ is reigning on earth) and then come back here to be with him. 1000 years without Christ? I'm getting a little anxious about that already. Because he is the Gospel.

In our Father's House, remember the one with many mansions that Jesus went to prepare for us? He said that He went to prepare a place for us, and that He will come again and receive us to Himself; that where He is, THERE we may be also. Everyone will be THERE, nobody will be HERE for 1000 years with the exception of the wicked who will become dinner for the birds. HERE is where the eagles will be gathered together for the Great Feast of God Almighty.
I look forward to seeing you THERE, in our Father's House.

Dan 9 is about the 490 years from 446 to the mid 1st century, although the last verse is a spot on description of the DofJ. What are you talking about?

2V2PET

This is just a theory and will be impossible to explain but provides for a solution as to why many still insist that national Israel has to be restored for a 1000 year Earthly Kingdom. God had three prophets operating at the same time during the 490 years but He was giving them two different end time stories. Daniel's first century people during the 70 weeks were the determining factor for this: "To seal up vision and prophecy".
2V2PET or 2 Visions, 2 Prophetic End Times. If they successfully met with the stipulations in Daniel 9, the Ezekiel vision would have been in play, Daniel would never be unsealed and Revelation would have never been written. We would have had a completely different history. This is why John the Baptizer insisted that The Kingdom of God was at hand, because it really was at hand right at that immediate point in time.

God knew it wasn't going to work, so He had Daniel's Plan B schematic all wrote up and ready to go. Mixing the two visions and end time prophetic schematics together leads to endless confusion.

Didn't you ever wonder why in the Daniel and Revelation story there isn't any mention of things like burning the weapons for 7 years, beating their swords into plowshares, an infant who lives but a few days or a child shall put his hand in the viper's den?

 

[Interplanner]

There were several other signs in the sky, and they were more peculiar than planetary ones.

Have you ever done a complete personnel and materiel accounting of the Rev? I got to about ch 11 and it was seriously in the negatives. Give it a go. Watch out for literalism.

"No one will be here" So much for that iron-hand 1000 year reign then. They are nobody. Or Israel is nobody. Or Christ is. Which do you mean?

What is plan B?

Paul says that everything went as planned and produced the one Lord, faith, body, Gospel, people that we now have in Christ. Don't make up plans unless they are clearly expressed by the apostles. All you'll have is a form of Judaism.

No, I don't have any Rubic's puzzles that keep me up at night. Christ is our righteousness, and his resurrection proves his approval by God for my sins. Enjoy that.

 

[Dave Watchman]

There were several other signs in the sky, and they were more peculiar than planetary ones.

Have you ever done a complete personnel and materiel accounting of the Rev? I got to about ch 11 and it was seriously in the negatives. Give it a go. Watch out for literalism.

"No one will be here" So much for that iron-hand 1000 year reign then. They are nobody. Or Israel is nobody. Or Christ is. Which do you mean?

What is plan B?

Paul says that everything went as planned and produced the one Lord, faith, body, Gospel, people that we now have in Christ. Don't make up plans unless they are clearly expressed by the apostles. All you'll have is a form of Judaism.

No, I don't have any Rubic's puzzles that keep me up at night. Christ is our righteousness, and his resurrection proves his approval by God for my sins. Enjoy that.

Everyone will be THERE, nobody will be HERE for 1000 years. This might be impossible to explain. Remember the DofJ? Here's a new acronym for you, the DofE.

The Lord is about to come back here and roll this whole place up like a scroll. He will kill all the wicked with a sword that comes out of His mouth and then take all of His Sheep back to His Fathers House for 1000 literal years.

Earth is about to make Mars look like Hawaii for 1000 literal years. The only ones left behind will be Lucifer, his angels and some birds of prey that will be eating the flesh of the wicked who will be laying all around with nobody to bury them.

I'm sorry, that's my read on it.

 

[Interplanner]

So Lucifer reigns on earth for 1000 years?

"Destruction of E_______"?