Colossians,
Wrong, that is not what I said at all, I said to be careful and not do the things, which are not for the spirit.
No you didn't. You said: "do not in your not following of the law forget to keep your acts following the spirit in the precepts of the law"
Did you not read what I posted, ie. Galatians 5:19-30
There it gives a clear list of things which are not in the spirit and guess what, all those things are in the law that is why I defined precept of the law as that list Paul gave, I am sorry for being unclear.
There you go again. Just can't help yourself can you? You try and cover it up in words like "spirit" and "fruits" and "precepts", but you eventually reveal your true colors: law following.
No I am not saying you have to follow the written law! But yes I am saying your acts should be contained within it anyways, as defined by the list provided by Paul. It is not a guise for following the law, it is saying that to be in the spirit you must walk as the spirit does.
Following the law and following the precepts are different;and yet result in the same. One is written and understood in faith and the other can simply be found without anything but faith.
You see you are saying that you follow the precepts of the law, and that is fine and good! By precepts I mean the things listed remember that.I was just making sure you understand that they are precepts of the law.
law is not of faith
. See post #78 on the context.
You have to see that this statement is not talking about what I am saying.This statement is about those who follow the law without faith,because they try and justify themselves in the law.
Not people who read and keep the laws out of faith, like James, Peter or king David.
I will show you an example of the difference:
A legalist: Would keep the holy days because they are written in the laws, and anyone who does not follow them would in their eyes be a transgressor of the law, thus unrighteous.
What am I saying: I follow the holy days because God said they were his, and so I now consider them mine. In my eyes one who does not keep the holy days is no more or less righteous.
Do you see how different these are? and do you see how Paul statements are not directed to what I am referring?
Or let me take another example of a different sort.
Galatians 5:2, NKJV:
Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
I was circumcised as a child, not because I was a Jew or that my family was followers of the law, but because my mother felt that I should be. Now I ask you is Christ no profit towards me as someone who is circumcised as a child? or must the context and audience play a role in what is being said!
First I do not see him that way at all, second I use the small "s" because I still believe the spirit to be the living power of God, and not an entity of its own merit, however seeing it that way in no way affects my option on the subject, nor changes any of my arguments.
This is your fundamental problem. You can't follow Him because you do not know He exists. This is strong evidence that you do not know the Lord personally. All spirits are persons.
If you understood how I saw the spirit as a living personified power of God you would see how there is no conflict, but since that will take too much time. Let me just tell you something above and beyond this fact.
The spirit is no different then Jesus of the new testament.You assuming that the spirit within you is of Christ is a bold of you, one must look at the fruits of the spirit to see its true nature, if that nature is contrary to God, that spirit is not God nor of God. If you do not see that yet clam to have wisdom, then I am afraid you need to rethink things.
actually I have .. shown and demonstrated in many if not all of the disciples..following of the law by faith,
Your interpretations are necessarily wrong, for "(keeping) the law is not of faith" Gal 3:12.
Perhaps the amplified bible will help you here:
"But the law does not rest on faith - does not require faith, has nothing to do with faith - for it says, He who does them (the things prescribed by the Law) shall live by them, [not by faith]."
An interesting theory yet hardly relevant.
First if you are claming whoever follows the law is evil despite his motives, then you could not explain Paul, James, Peter nor many others. You see you must look at motives; they are at the root of this. I agree with everything that scripture says, but you see This is not talking about following the law, but holding yourself under the law (see my legalist example), but what you fail to see is I am not a legalist like the SDA (from what I understand), nor from what I understand is a Messianic Jews, we follow the law not due to obligation but because we have nothing to say against it. You see we no longer see it as law, instead we see it as simple words, we follow the words,words in which the spirit makes living!
Let me give you some more examples:
Let us take thou shall not covet
A legalist would see this and say I shall not covet because it is against the law! Yet this does not even cross the mind of a follower of the law, instead we say if God tells us he does not covet then why should I covet, and in so we follow the law.
Let us take the Sabbath day
A legalist would see this and say I shall keep the Sabbath day because that law says rest, and he who does not rest will surely die. Yet, we as followers of the law do no such thing, we follow the law because our God kept the Sabbath day, we do it because he set that day special! What do we say to those who do not kept the Sabbath? Not you shall surly die but come and join us friend and brother to keep the day of our Lord.
Do you see how theses are different and I am not in fact a legalist but a follower of the law? Remember I somewhat agree with your heading, in the way that legalist are wrong.
What laws do you think will be in ChristKingdom?
"The kingdom of God is within you". It is not a future event.
You say to me first that you live with Christ and he guilds all you do yet you discredit that your acts follow the guidelines set out in the law(precepts), that confuses me. It paints for me the picture that you think of yourself equal to God. You seem to deny his authority.
As for this statement, this is not the right place to debate this, however I am afraid that what you say may be the most unfounded thing I have heard yet. The fact that you deny the realism of Jesus prophecy actually means once again you challenge his authority,
however if you would like I will go over this with you in another thread
By the way, I do not know you point of view on this subject but I will give a brief of mine:
- The kingdom shall come and mark judgment day
- No one is judged at death
- Though we belong to his kingdom well we walk the earth we are still here
- epople who did not find truth in this life will get a small window(second chance) to repent, under knowledge of the truth, and have the possiblity to come to God
Anyways like I said, I am flabbergasted at the fact you think christs kingdom is just a metaphor, but that is a topic for a different thread.
God bless,
Datsar
ps: many of the things I said need to be taken in context so please do not take and split up things which belong together.Ie If you quote one sentance, you response should be to the whole paragraph that the sentance was in.