Not sure where I really fit in

[Baby Cottontail]

I grew up United Methodist, but I am not really sure that I fit in with United Methodists anymore. I feel like I am a lot more theologically conservative than most, and if there is a church split, I will need to find another church to attend.

I have a year or so to find another church....so I thought I might as well start looking now.

I am not a Calvinist, and I would not do well in a Calvinist church, as I just don't agree with Calvinism.

I like contemporary worship, but I am okay with traditional worship.

I want to find a church that believes in substitutionary atonement, Jesus' deity, the Trinity, Jesus' bodily resurrection, and Jesus' second coming. I also want it to be a church that believes that Jesus is the only way.

I also don't want to attend a church that promotes New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) or Bill Johnson's theology (Redding, California).

Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Thanks.

 

[PloverWing]

I'm not very familiar with the variety of Methodist churches, but as I understand it, there are several branches of the Methodist/Wesleyan tradition that are more conservative than the United Methodists. I believe that the Wesleyan church and the Church of the Nazarene are in this category; both are affiliated with the National Association of Evangelicals.

You may also feel comfortable in a Baptist church -- something like the Southern Baptists in the south, or the Conservative Baptists in the north. They'll probably be less liturgical than the United Methodists, but they'll share your Arminian theology.

Blessings to you in your search for a new church.

 

[mukk_in]

I grew up United Methodist, but I am not really sure that I fit in with United Methodists anymore. I feel like I am a lot more theologically conservative than most, and if there is a church split, I will need to find another church to attend.

I have a year or so to find another church....so I thought I might as well start looking now.

I am not a Calvinist, and I would not do well in a Calvinist church, as I just don't agree with Calvinism.

I like contemporary worship, but I am okay with traditional worship.

I want to find a church that believes in substitutionary atonement, Jesus' deity, the Trinity, Jesus' bodily resurrection, and Jesus' second coming. I also want it to be a church that believes that Jesus is the only way.

I also don't want to attend a church that promotes New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) or Bill Johnson's theology (Redding, California).

Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Thanks.

If you can't find a suitable church, try smaller prayer groups or fellowships. God bless .

 

[Baby Cottontail]

I'm not very familiar with the variety of Methodist churches, but as I understand it, there are several branches of the Methodist/Wesleyan tradition that are more conservative than the United Methodists. I believe that the Wesleyan church and the Church of the Nazarene are in this category; both are affiliated with the National Association of Evangelicals.

You may also feel comfortable in a Baptist church -- something like the Southern Baptists in the south, or the Conservative Baptists in the north. They'll probably be less liturgical than the United Methodists, but they'll share your Arminian theology.

Blessings to you in your search for a new church.

Really? I had always thought Baptists were Calvinists, or at least most of them.

Yes, there are more conservative Wesleyan groups, but unfortunately, none of them are in my area. That may change if the denomination splits, so I will keep this in mind.

Thanks so much for your response.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

If you can't find a suitable church, try smaller prayer groups or fellowships. God bless .

Thanks. That may be a possibility if I can't find any churches in my area that I could agree with theologically. I think, though, that there should be at least one church that does.

 

[mukk_in]

Thanks. That may be a possibility if I can't find any churches in my area that I could agree with theologically. I think, though, that there should be at least one church that does.

Yes, there should be one or two. Good luck sis. God bless .

 

[PloverWing]

Really? I had always thought Baptists were Calvinists, or at least most of them.

Baptists vary widely, and you're right that some Baptist groups are Calvinist. But the Southern Baptists (the Baptist group with which I'm most familiar) are Arminian, and I think the Conservative Baptists are too. Check the denominational web sites for the churches you're thinking of visiting, to see if their views line up with yours.

 

[Radagast]

I grew up United Methodist, but I am not really sure that I fit in with United Methodists anymore. I feel like I am a lot more theologically conservative than most, and if there is a church split, I will need to find another church to attend.

I have a year or so to find another church....so I thought I might as well start looking now.

I am not a Calvinist, and I would not do well in a Calvinist church, as I just don't agree with Calvinism.

What about Calvinism don't you agree with? It's possible that, if you look at what Calvinists actually believe, it might be different from what you've been told.

 

[Radagast]

Baptists vary widely, and you're right that some Baptist groups are Calvinist. But the Southern Baptists (the Baptist group with which I'm most familiar) are Arminian

Well, no. According to surveys, Southern Baptists would split about 50-50 Calvinist and Arminian, with the Calvinist segment growing.

It's been a discussion topic in the SBC for a while.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Baptists vary widely, and you're right that some Baptist groups are Calvinist. But the Southern Baptists (the Baptist group with which I'm most familiar) are Arminian, and I think the Conservative Baptists are too. Check the denominational web sites for the churches you're thinking of visiting, to see if their views line up with yours.

Thanks. Will do.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

What about Calvinism don't you agree with? It's possible that, if you look at what Calvinists actually believe, it might be different from what you've been told.

I have had some online discussions with Calvinists that got pretty ugly (not on my end). They ended up telling me that I wasn't even saved because I believed in a different gospel because I was not a Calvinist. They wouldn't have a rational discussion about the issues. I've talked with more than one Calvinist. Maybe not all of them agree with what these others do....but from my interaction with them, I wouldn't be able to attend a Calvinist congregation.

What do I disagree with? Well, the idea that God makes all choices for everyone all the time, even to the choice of what clothing we wear for the day. (Yes, a Calvinist told me that this is what they believe). I just can't subscribe to that.

Or even the idea that God makes people choose to sin. An example -- God making the decision for someone to drink and then get in a car and then cause an accident. (Again, a Calvinist told me that this is what they believe.) I can't agree with that.

I also can't agree with the idea that Christ only died for some people -- that He didn't die for everyone's sins, and that people have to prove their salvation. That salvation isn't open to everyone who believes in Jesus. (Again, a Calvinist and I had a discussion about this.)

I also had a brief online discussion with someone who basically said I wasn't saved because I wasn't elected. He bragged about his own election, and he would not evangelize to anyone who he didn't think was elected. If he truly thought I was lost, then there was no hope for me. I can't subscribe to that view of salvation or evangelism.

I just know that I would not be able to be in a Calvinist church.

 

[Radagast]

Or even the idea that God makes people choose to sin. An example -- God making the decision for someone to drink and then get in a car and then cause an accident. (Again, a Calvinist told me that this is what they believe.) I can't agree with that.

I'm a Calvinist, and I wouldn't say that. It's a foundational Calvinist doctrine that "God is not the author of sin."

"We believe that this good God,
after creating all things,
did not abandon them to chance or fortune
but leads and governs them
according to his holy will,
in such a way that nothing happens in this world
without God’s orderly arrangement.
Yet God is not the author of,
and cannot be charged with,
the sin that occurs.
For God’s power and goodness
are so great and incomprehensible
that God arranges and does his works very well and justly
even when the devils and the wicked act unjustly." (Belgic Confession, 13)

That salvation isn't open to everyone who believes in Jesus.

Again, a genuine Calvinist would agree that everyone who believes in Jesus will be saved.

I wasn't saved because I wasn't elected.

Again, a genuine Calvinist wouldn't say that, because only God knows who the elect are. That's why genuine Calvinists evangelise everybody. If people believe in Jesus before they die, then they are elect.

It sounds to me like you've been talking to people who didn't understand Calvinism, or to "hyper-Calvinists." Those are usually found in small nondenominational groups.

That probably means that you could still be happy in many of the Calvinist churches (say, the Presbyterian Church in America or PCA, which is the largest conservative Presbyterian group -- see www.pcanet.org).

Outside of Calvinism, you might look at the conservative Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod or LCMS -- see www.lcms.org

 

[toLiJC]

I grew up United Methodist, but I am not really sure that I fit in with United Methodists anymore. I feel like I am a lot more theologically conservative than most, and if there is a church split, I will need to find another church to attend.

I have a year or so to find another church....so I thought I might as well start looking now.

I am not a Calvinist, and I would not do well in a Calvinist church, as I just don't agree with Calvinism.

I like contemporary worship, but I am okay with traditional worship.

I want to find a church that believes in substitutionary atonement, Jesus' deity, the Trinity, Jesus' bodily resurrection, and Jesus' second coming. I also want it to be a church that believes that Jesus is the only way.

I also don't want to attend a church that promotes New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) or Bill Johnson's theology (Redding, California).

Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Thanks.

why first of all must we be so dependent on what other people have prepared for us, not on our efforts to carry our respective crosses?! (Luke 14:27)

i can tell you, even from experience, that relying on/following what other people have prepared for us instead of practicing the faith right starting at the beginning is the most common/biggest mistake we have ever made...

Blessings

 

[Baby Cottontail]

I'm a Calvinist, and I wouldn't say that. It's a foundational Calvinist doctrine that "God is not the author of sin."

"We believe that this good God,
after creating all things,
did not abandon them to chance or fortune
but leads and governs them
according to his holy will,
in such a way that nothing happens in this world
without God’s orderly arrangement.
Yet God is not the author of,
and cannot be charged with,
the sin that occurs.
For God’s power and goodness
are so great and incomprehensible
that God arranges and does his works very well and justly
even when the devils and the wicked act unjustly." (Belgic Confession, 13)

Again, a genuine Calvinist would agree that everyone who believes in Jesus will be saved.

Again, a genuine Calvinist wouldn't say that, because only God knows who the elect are. That's why genuine Calvinists evangelise everybody. If people believe in Jesus before they die, then they are elect.

It sounds to me like you've been talking to people who didn't understand Calvinism, or to "hyper-Calvinists." Those are usually found in small nondenominational groups.

That probably means that you could still be happy in many of the Calvinist churches (say, the Presbyterian Church in America or PCA, which is the largest conservative Presbyterian group -- see www.pcanet.org).

Outside of Calvinism, you might look at the conservative Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod or LCMS -- see www.lcms.org

Thanks very much for your response. Yes, it is possible that I was talking to those who would be labeled as hyper-Calvinists, or people who thought they were Calvinists, but who misunderstand what it is that Calvinism is supposed to be.

How would I know which churches promoted Calvinism and which ones promoted hyper-Calvinisism?

Those both sound like viable options. Unfortunately, I don't think either of those denominations is in my town. However, if I ever moved somewhere else, I would definitely look into them. Thank you.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

why first of all must we be so dependent on what other people have prepared for us, not on our efforts to carry our respective crosses?! (Luke 14:27)

i can tell you, even from experience, that relying on/following what other people have prepared for us instead of practicing the faith right starting at the beginning is the most common/biggest mistake we have ever made...

Blessings

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that a person should leave whatever church they grew up in and joined as a child, and find a new one that they can join and agree with?

Or are you saying that we should leave all churches and just fellowship with God on our own?

 

[toLiJC]

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that a person should leave whatever church they grew up in and joined as a child, and find a new one that they can join and agree with?

Or are you saying that we should leave all churches and just fellowship with God on our own?

first, what do you call "church", or, what do you mean by "church"?!, because the "church" that is presented in the biblical books of the New Covenant was, first of all, full of true saviors such as St Peter and Paul, the Apostles, who did cast out all devils from many demon-possessed people, healed many sick, and even resurrected dead, in addition to the fact that they preached the perfect truth of God to many people very successfully, while, nowadays, there have been no such saints in most of the so-called churches...

i don't mean that we must excommunicate ourselves from the Church of God and Jesus, but remember that the Saints of the New Covenant had often been far from the churches in order to preach the Gospel to as many people as possible so as to save them - people that had no true faith and church, or, as St Paul tells in Hebrews 5-6, the church as a place where people can learn how to practice the faith right should not be a place of constant gathering of people who always learn but are never able to come to the knowledge of the truth (2 Timothy 3:7) - remember that each of the Saints of Jesus had been taught for no more than about 3 years and then became a complete Saint; also, remember what St Paul says in Galatians 2:6; so each of the religious worshipers/spiritual servants has first to take and carry their respective crosses, regardless of what the world religion says or does (Galatians 6:4-5)..., and only then there can be a complete church...

Blessings

 

[Baby Cottontail]

first, what do you call "church", or, what do you mean by "church"?!, because the "church" that is presented in the biblical books of the New Covenant was, first of all, full of true saviors such as St Peter and Paul, the Apostles, who did cast out all devils from many demon-possessed people, healed many sick, and even resurrected dead, in addition to the fact that they preached the perfect truth of God to many people very successfully, while, nowadays, there have been no such saints in most of the so-called churches...

i don't mean that we must excommunicate ourselves from the Church of God and Jesus, but remember that the Saints of the New Covenant had often been far from the churches in order to preach the Gospel to as many people as possible so as to save them - people that had no true faith and church, or, as St Paul tells in Hebrews 5-6, the church as a place where people can learn how to practice the faith right should not be a place of constant gathering of people who always learn but are never able to come to the knowledge of the truth (2 Timothy 3:7) - remember that each of the Saints of Jesus had been taught for no more than about 3 years and then became a complete Saint; also, remember what St Paul says in Galatians 2:6; so each of the religious worshipers/spiritual servants has first to take and carry their respective crosses, regardless of what the world religion says or does (Galatians 6:4-5)..., and only then there can be a complete church...

Blessings

In the sense that I was using "church," I meant a local body of believers (congregation) who gather together for worship.

 

[toLiJC]

In the sense that I was using "church," I meant a local body of believers (congregation) who gather together for worship.

if my local "churches" are church of satan, iskcon, jehovah's witnesses, free masons, wicca and other suchlike sects, does that mean i must necessarily convert to one of them only because they are my local "churches"?!

Blessings

 

[Baby Cottontail]

if my local "churches" are curch of satan, iskcon, jehovah's witnesses, free masons, wicca and other suchlike sects, does that mean i must necessarily convert to one of them only because they are my local "churches"?!

Blessings

No. Of course not. I would find other Christians to meet with, probably in people's homes, were that the case.

 

[toLiJC]

No. Of course not. I would find other Christians to meet with, probably in people's homes, were that the case.

i am really sorry that we live in a time when it is very hard to find a true church, but i prefer being a realist to living in satanic illusion

hopefully you will find a true church

Blessings