Not sure they 'get it' yet.

[zephcom]

This is an article posted elsewhere on the forum:

Priest Warns the US Church Is "About to Collapse": "And We’re Barely Talking About It" | ChurchPOP

I suspect the declining membership in the Catholic Church in America is the result of the sexually abusive culture of the Church leadership that has existed for decades if not even centuries. There is no renewal which will stop the fleeing of people from the dangers the priesthood represents to people.

On the other side of the coin, however, perhaps the continual drop in revenue will cause them to do something about the real problem. It -is- an ethical and moral issue, not a cultural one. Does one protect and shelter sexual abusers of women and children or does one root them out and turn them over to civil authorities?

 

[Nithavela]

I think the main reason that the catholic church is shrinking is because all christian denominations are shrinking while atheism and alternative religions are on the rise.

 

[zephcom]

I think the main reason that the catholic church is shrinking is because all christian denominations are shrinking while atheism and alternative religions are on the rise.

I think there is little doubt that the shrinking of the Catholic Church is partly the result of the general decline of Christianity in America.

But if this priest is correct and the Catholic Church in America is facing complete collapse, it isn't just because of general disinterest in Christianity. The only apparent thing it can is disgust of the priesthood for their sexual proclivities.

 

[Halbhh]

One thought: a perennial withers in the late fall, and the leaves and stalks die, and the dead stalks eventually fall to the ground, and nothing is left but the decaying ruin.

But all the while under the ground is the bulb, and the spring is on the way. Then on a warmer day there will be green shoots thrusting up through the earth, and it grows faster than we expect then, with a hidden power that drives it.

It is human nature to mistake the outward form as being the essence. (and that's on more than one level also)

 

[Nithavela]

One thought: a perennial withers in the late fall, and the leaves and stalks die, and the dead stalks eventually fall to the ground, and nothing is left but the decaying ruin.

But all the while under the ground is the bulb, and the spring is on the way. Then on a warmer day there will be green shoots thrusting up through the earth, and it grows faster than we expect then, with a hidden power that drives it.

It is human nature to mistake the outward form as being the essence.

Annuals wither in the late fall, too.

Just because something withers doesnt mean it will come back.

 

[Halbhh]

“No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.”

 

[zephcom]

One thought: a perennial withers in the late fall, and the leaves and stalks die, and the dead stalks eventually fall to the ground, and nothing is left but the decaying ruin.

But all the while under the ground is the bulb, and the spring is on the way. Then on a warmer day there will be green shoots thrusting up through the earth, and it grows faster than we expect then, with a hidden power that drives it.

It is human nature to mistake the outward form as being the essence. (and that's on more than one level also)

If the Catholic Church were a plant, that might make sense.

 

[bèlla]

I think there are many reasons for the shift. Church attendance is declining and I've heard that across the board. I left and my daughter would attend mass from time to time. I have shared the posts from the site with her and my concern about the spirit in the church. There's too much corruption. She's joined me at the synagogue.

Catholicism is dead on this side of my family tree. My sister and I attended Catholic school but our children did not. My daughter is the lone one who went to Catholic church as an adult. Our family tradition is over. My daughter and her children will be Christian Jews reared in the synagogue.

I would have a hard time attending a church with the level of misconduct they have. The proliferation of abuse and protection from the Vatican is unimaginable. I prefer an environment where spiritual nourishment exists.

 

[Halbhh]

If the Catholic Church were a plant, that might make sense.

I tend to think of particular churches as like branches/leaves rather, and perhaps a better example is the natural condition palm tree then (the tall kind I'm familiar with on the southern coast of the U.S.), because the old branches/leaves die, but new ones are appearing higher up also at the same time.
(when you see one in natural condition where no one has removed the dead older branches)

Those new branches/leaves are essentially identical (in essence) to the old they are replacing.

 

[Halbhh]

Or another kind of tree entirely could be more relevant, but that's another thread.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

I think the main reason that the catholic church is shrinking is because all christian denominations are shrinking while atheism and alternative religions are on the rise.

It's more nuanced than that. At least here in the US, liberal and moderate churches and denominations, which are by far the mainstream, are hemorrhaging members. Smaller, conservative churches and denominations are mostly holding strong, or growing.

https://www.sociologicalscience.com/download/vol-4/november/SocSci_v4_686to700.pdf
https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...hriving/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.bda18bdaa18b

Whether they're growing at anything like a sustainable rate, remains to be seen.

 

[Nithavela]

It's more nuanced than that. At least here in the US, liberal and moderate churches and denominations, which are by far the mainstream, are hemorrhaging members. Smaller, conservative churches and denominations are mostly holding strong, or growing.

https://www.sociologicalscience.com/download/vol-4/november/SocSci_v4_686to700.pdf
https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...hriving/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.bda18bdaa18b

Whether they're growing at anything like a sustainable rate, remains to be seen.

I think thats because people leave the liberal churches for mainly two reasons. Either they lose faith or the churches hold views they disagree with. The smaller churches are growing slightly because they are getting that second group, but the overall number of christian is falling.

 

[Halbhh]

It's more nuanced than that. At least here in the US, liberal and moderate churches and denominations, which are by far the mainstream, are hemorrhaging members. Smaller, conservative churches and denominations are mostly holding strong, or growing.

https://www.sociologicalscience.com/download/vol-4/november/SocSci_v4_686to700.pdf
https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...hriving/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.bda18bdaa18b

Whether they're growing at anything like a sustainable rate, remains to be seen.

While that generalization has plenty of instances that make it appear the case, some would probably try to call our ELCA Lutheran church 'liberal', or at least they would try to until they attended a few months (and many still would even then) I think, because they would at first notice things like how we welcome and love people regardless of their possible ongoing sins, not judging them. Simply relying on Christ to save, and preaching Christ, and obeying Matthew 7:1-2.

And our 'liberal' church has been growing, gaining more and more young families.

But to be honest, I think the whole concept of 'liberal' and 'conservative' absolutely do not belong in Christ's church at all.

To me, there is no such thing as a 'liberal Christian' nor is there any such thing as a 'conservative Christian'. Either a person individually follows Christ (however stumbling), or they don't at all. Ideas of man like 'liberal' and 'conservative' have no connection with that, I've found out, first hand.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

I think thats because people leave the liberal churches for mainly two reasons. Either they lose faith or the churches hold views they disagree with. The smaller churches are growing slightly because they are getting that second group, but the overall number of christian is falling.

I don't doubt that - they are getting the runoff of members who are looking for some sense of purpose that is bigger than themselves, and the mainstream 'let's all just hold hands and sing Kumbayah' hippy churches have nothing to offer in that regard. More conservative and literalist denominations will have you believe, among other things, that you are a soul-winning soldier at the forefront of a spiritual war between the forces of Satan and Yahweh, a war that Satan is currently winning, and some people find a lot of meaning and purpose in that.

If this trend continues, some years down the road you should expect to see an irreligious secular majority, a fervently religious minority, and not much in between.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

I think the main reason that the catholic church is shrinking is because all christian denominations are shrinking while atheism and alternative religions are on the rise.

I think this is true, but that the recent revelations about the immorality in the Catholic Church, coming right from the top, have greatly accelerated this process.

 

[Rajni]

I think this is true, but that the recent revelations about the immorality in the Catholic Church, coming right from the top, have greatly accelerated this process.

Agreed.

There’s still a part of me that would like to be a practicing
Catholic again, but with all the scandal associated with that
organization, I almost feel guilty for even considering it.


-

 

[Ana the Ist]

This is an article posted elsewhere on the forum:

Priest Warns the US Church Is "About to Collapse": "And We’re Barely Talking About It" | ChurchPOP

I suspect the declining membership in the Catholic Church in America is the result of the sexually abusive culture of the Church leadership that has existed for decades if not even centuries. There is no renewal which will stop the fleeing of people from the dangers the priesthood represents to people.

On the other side of the coin, however, perhaps the continual drop in revenue will cause them to do something about the real problem. It -is- an ethical and moral issue, not a cultural one. Does one protect and shelter sexual abusers of women and children or does one root them out and turn them over to civil authorities?

Sexual abuse is understandably going to get rid of people. I don't think that's the main problem though. I think the problem is fundamental to all religions.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Perhaps many are leaving because their "churches" no longer serve their spiritual needs. I am a strong believer but no longer attend a church or fellowship, although I hope to find one in the future.