Not pre-destined for Hell.

[5thKingdom]

why won’t you address the scriptures I provided? I’m not making anything up, I'm providing scriptures to back up my beliefs

Last chance...
Show me a Scripture that contradicts this:

Joh 6:44
NO MAN can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me
draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


.

 

[5thKingdom]

How can someone fail to abide in Christ? John 15:6 How would this even be possible if what your saying is true?

1Jn 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have
continued with us: but they went out, that they might
be made manifest that they were not all of us.

.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Last chance...
Show me a Scripture that contradicts this:

Joh 6:44
NO MAN can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me
draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


.

Amen The Father must draw a person before they can come to Christ.

“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:32‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Does this mean all men or only a select few?

 

[BNR32FAN]

1Jn 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have
continued with us: but they went out, that they might
be made manifest that they were not all of us.

.

They does not refer to everyone. They refers to a specific group at that time.

notice the difference here from this verse.

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Now this verse undoubtedly refers to everyone not a specific group.

 

[5thKingdom]

Amen The Father must draw a person before they can come to Christ.

“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:32‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Does this mean all men or only a select few?

So you think that John 12:32 teaches that (since Jesus has
been resurrected) everyone on earth is going to heaven?

All men = everyone on earth
or
All men = all the elect = all of His sheep

.

 

[5thKingdom]

Amen The Father must draw a person before they can come to Christ.

“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:32‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Does this mean all men or only a select few?

BTW... the word "men" is not in the original text
it was added.

The verse should read:

(LITV) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself.

So the question remains:

Are all the people on earth drawn to Christ
or
Are all the elect drawn to Christ

.

 

[5thKingdom]

They does not refer to everyone. They refers to a specific group at that time.

notice the difference here from this verse.

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Now this verse undoubtedly refers to everyone not a specific group.

You are making no sense.

You say that "they" in 1 John represents SOME people

Then you claim "anyone" represents EVERYONE?

"Anyone" [Jn 15] is a select group just like "They" [1Jn]


.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So you think that John 12:32 teaches that (since Jesus has
been resurrected) everyone on earth is going to heaven?

All men = everyone on earth
or
All men = all the elect = all of His sheep

.

All men does is not limited to a select group. Let the scriptures say what they say, not what you want them to. The scriptures say all men not all the elect.

Edit: I see your point that the word men is not in the verse but there’s still nothing in the context to indicate that He is referring only to the elect. Even the word all by itself still includes all men.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You are making no sense.

You say that "they" in 1 John represents SOME people

Then you claim "anyone" represents EVERYONE?

"Anyone" [Jn 15] is a select group just like "They" [1Jn]


.

They went out from us is talking about the particular group who went out from them in the past. Anyone who does not abide in Me includes everyone who doesn’t abide in Christ past, present, or future. Saying they went out from us does not include everyone who has and will go out.

 

[5thKingdom]

They went out from us is talking about the particular group who went out from them in the past. Anyone who does not abide in Me includes everyone who doesn’t abide in Christ past, present, or future. Saying they went out from us does not include everyone who has and will go out.

This is not difficult.
They that went out from us in 1 John is the
unsaved tares that fall away and leave the church.
I happened in John's day and it happens today...
tares fall away.

Anyone who does not abide is the same.
The church is full of unsaved tares who "believe" for a while
and then "fall away". There is nothing new here.


Luk 8:11-15
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh
the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts,
lest they should believe and be saved. They on the
rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word
with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe,
and in time of temptation fall away. And that which fell among
thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and
are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life,
and bring no fruit to perfection. But that on the good ground
are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard
the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.


.

 

[5thKingdom]

All men does is not limited to a select group. Let the scriptures say what they say, not what you want them to. The scriptures say all men not all the elect.

I do let the Scriptures say what they say.
But you have isolated ONE VERSE and have not harmonized
that verse with ALL RELATED verses... that is how heresy occurs.


Most (if not all) heresies can show one or two verses that
support the lie. Good lies NEED some truth in order to deceive.


But the MEASURE of Biblical truth is that your theory must
harmonize with ALL RELATED passages... and yours does not.


So you have a verse that says Christ will draw "all men"
unto Himself... and your theory is that the verse means
"all men" who ever lived.

But there are two problems with your theory


(1) If Christ "draws" all men to Himself then NO MAN would
be left unsaved... there would be nobody in Hell because
all men on earth would be saved in Christ... since Jesus
PROMISED that He would lose NONE of His sheep.


But that theory falls apart because we know that hell is
heavily populated. Many verses teach that reality which
destroys your theory.


(2) The only measure of Biblical Truth is your theory must
harmonize with ALL RELATED passages. And there are many
passages that say most men are destined to Hell... so clearly
"all men" cannot mean all men ever born but "all men" that
the Father has given to Christ.


Joh 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me,
that of all [ALL MEN] which he hath given me
I should lose nothing, [NO MEN] but should raise
it up again at the last day.


Again your theory fall apart because there are TONS of
passages that contradict your theory. In fact I will give you
even a BETTER passage to base your heresy on:


1Co 15:22
For as in Adam all [ALL MEN] die,
even so in Christ shall all [ALL MEN] be made alive.


So we can preach a heresy that says ALL MEN go to heaven
because Christ makes ALL MEN (spiritually) alive


But that heresy falls apart as fast as your theory falls apart
because there are TONS of passages that teach that Hell
is heavily populated and that ALL MEN do NOT go to heaven.


God has written the Bible in such a way as to allow for
men to create all kinds of heresy by selecting a few verses
and ignoring ALL RELATED verses that contradict their heresy.


That is why Biblical Truth is NOT found by selecting one or two
passages and ignoring all the RELATED passages. Biblical Truth
must be able to harmonize with ALL Scripture.


Example:
We know your theory about Christ "drawing" all to Himself
does NOT mean all men ever born because that notion
contradict other passages.


However Christ does "draw" all to Himself when you
realize that "all" is a reference to "all" of "His Sheep".
Now you have Biblical Truth because that harmonizes
with ALL RELATED passages.


So you have a "theory" that DOES NOT harmonize with
all RELATED Scripture... proving it is heresy.


And I have a doctrine that DOES harmonize with all Scripture,
thereby PROVING it is Biblical Truth.


Your theory ASSUMES too much. You have ADDED to the
Biblical teaching that only SOME MEN are saved, only the elect.
By ADDING to that Biblical reality you have created a heresy.


The CONTEXT of any Scripture is the entire Bible
When you take one or two passages OUT of that context
you create a heresy... you create "another gospel" [Gal 1]

Edit: I see your point that the word men is not in the verse but there’s still nothing in the context to indicate that He is referring only to the elect. Even the word all by itself still includes all men.

I do not dispute that "all" means "all men"
But it does not mean "all men on earth", otherwise
there would be nobody in hell... and hell is heavily populated.


And the Bible teaches that only SOME MEN are saved,
only those "chosen" or "elected" from the foundation of
the world.


MANY are called ["called" by hearing the Gospel]
FEW are chosen ["chosen" or "elected" to be saved]


So... we will have to leave it there.
You have created a "gospel" that says men are NOT
born dead... they have just enough life in them to seek God.
When the Bible PROMISES that NO MAN will seek God.


You have created a "gospel" that says ALL MEN are drawn to Christ
When the Bible says (a) only the elect are drawn and (b) everyone
drawn is saved - Christ will lose NONE of His sheep.


You can believe whatever gospel you want.
But there is no reason for us to continue to communicate
because we follow different gospels.


So this REALLY has to be my last post to you.


Jim

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is not difficult.
They that went out from us in 1 John is the
unsaved tares that fall away and leave the church.
I happened in John's day and it happens today...
tares fall away.

Anyone who does not abide is the same.
The church is full of unsaved tares who "believe" for a while
and then "fall away". There is nothing new here.


Luk 8:11-15
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh
the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts,
lest they should believe and be saved. They on the
rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word
with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe,
and in time of temptation fall away. And that which fell among
thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and
are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life,
and bring no fruit to perfection. But that on the good ground
are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard
the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.


.

But there are no tares present for this message. Jesus is speaking only to His 11 faithful apostles. He says to them

“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.”‭‭John‬ ‭15:4‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Obviously this is an indication that they are capable of choosing not to abide in Jesus otherwise this would be a useless statement. Then He says

“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

So why tell them to abide in Him if they are incapable of choosing not to abide in Him?

Then He says

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

So your saying that when Jesus says the word “anyone” here in verse 6 that this does not apply to His 11 faithful apostles who are the only people present? That they are somehow excluded from this statement when everything He’s said pertains directly to them abiding in Him? Your saying that this statement only refers to tares and not the men He is speaking to? That is absurd.

Next He says

“IF YOU abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:7‬ ‭NASB‬‬

The words “IF YOU” is absolutely clearly indicating that His 11 faithful apostles could choose not to abide otherwise the use of the word “IF” would be incorrect grammar. Obviously the use of the word “YOU” here cannot refer to anyone other than those who are currently present to hear this message. Are there any tares present? No there are not.

So Jesus says to men whom we know are undoubtedly saved “Abide in Me”. Then He explains to them why they must abide in Him. Then He explains the consequences if they don’t abide in Him. Then He explains what they can expect IF they do abide in Him. The evidence here is overwhelmingly, undeniably, contradictory to your theology my friend. i know how hard it is to accept because I also began as a reformed believer. I defended reformed theology fiercely. Until I was presented with this passage of scripture. For years I had always read this and thought to myself this can’t be saying what it appears to be saying and I to struggled finding ways to interpret these verses to coincide with reformed theology but the truth is the only way it can be done is to ignore the implications of what is being said and who it is being said to. People will often resort to generalizing what Jesus said here in order to make these verses fit with their theology instead of letting the scriptures dictate their theology. Don’t let your doctrines dictate the scriptures my friend, let the scriptures dictate your doctrines. You see, when I realized the implications of these verses I not only had to go back and re-examine all of the scriptures that I thought supported reformed theology, I also ended up having to recant all my posts supporting reformed theology. Because it was more important to me to speak the truth about God’s word than it was for me to retain my pride and reputation. I had to humble myself and admit my mistakes to people whom I had been debating with for quite some time. It wasn’t easy and I didn’t arrive to that decision until after weeks of re-examining the scriptures from another perspective. I mean that’s why we should be here on CF is to examine other perspectives on the scriptures and test our own beliefs. John 15 isn’t the only evidence of conditional salvation, it’s just in my opinion the most conclusive and convincing evidence I’ve found. There are several more verses that support conditional salvation.

Paul wrote to Timothy ( Both saved individuals)

“It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:3-4‬ ‭NASB‬‬

The Galatians who accepted circumcision were severed from Christ and have fallen from grace. Of course they can be reconciled to Christ again once they repent and stop seeking justification by works and accept that they can only be justified by Christ.

Here’s one I bet you weren’t expecting to support conditional salvation.

“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:37‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Did you know the Greek word erchomai that is translated to “comes or cometh” is only used in the present and imperfect tense? So this means the ones who presently and continuously comes to Christ will not be cast out.

Strong’s Concordance

erchomai G2064

Middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred [middle voice] eleuthomai el-yoo'-thom-ahee, or [active] eltho el'-tho, which do not otherwise occur)

1. to come
a. of persons
1. to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving
2. to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public
2. metaphorically
a. to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence
b. be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto
3. to go, to follow one

In other words only those who abide/remain in Christ, He will certainly not cast out.

Nothing is more important than the word of God my friend. Reformed theology began just 500 years ago and has been rejected by every single church established by the apostles. You should read up on the early church writings outside the scriptures to see what the early church was teaching. Surely you believe that the gates of hell will not prevail against Christ’s Church? If reformed theology was taught in the early church then surely there would be evidence to support that throughout the Church’s history. Unfortunately there’s not.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Please keep ‘me coming I’ll explain every single one without a single contradiction.

Joh 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me,
that of all [ALL MEN] which he hath given me
I should lose nothing, [NO MEN] but should raise
it up again at the last day.

Will G2307 the same word used in 1 Timothy 2:4. This word does not always mean something that God has deemed to be true it can also mean something that God desires. Surely God has not deemed that all men will be saved and come to the full knowledge of truth. I’m sure you would agree?


1. what one wishes or has determined shall be done
a. of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ
b. of what God wishes to be done by us
1. commands, precepts
2. will, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure

This next one is simple. Amen all who are in Christ shall be made alive.

1Co 15:22
For as in Adam all [ALL MEN] die,
even so in Christ shall all [ALL MEN] be made alive.

There’s no contradiction in these verses to conditional salvation. Please send some more.

 

[BNR32FAN]

But that heresy falls apart as fast as your theory falls apart
because there are TONS of passages that teach that Hell
is heavily populated and that ALL MEN do NOT go to heaven.

I haven’t said anything that supports this accusation. I’ve spent quite a bit of time refuting universalism my friend.

 

[5thKingdom]

I haven’t said anything that supports this accusation. I’ve spent quite a bit of time refuting universalism my friend.

When you teach that Christ "draws" all men to Him
(and we know that ALL who are "drawn" are saved - Jn 6)
then you ARE teaching a universal atonement and salvation.
Even if you do not REALIZE that is what you are teaching.


.

 

[5thKingdom]

I said:

Joh 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me,
that of all [ALL MEN] which he hath given me
I should lose nothing, [NO MEN] but should raise
it up again at the last day.

Will G2307 the same word used in 1 Timothy 2:4. This word does not always mean something that God has deemed to be true it can also mean something that God desires. Surely God has not deemed that all men will be saved and come to the full knowledge of truth. I’m sure you would agree?

(1) First, it is NOT the same word used in 1Tim 2:4
G2307 is not found in the verse

1Ti 2:4
WhoG3739 willG2309 have allG3956 menG444 to be saved,G4982 andG2532 to comeG2064 untoG1519 the knowledgeG1922 of the truth.G225


(2)Second, the word G2307 is used 64 times in the Bible
and it is ALWAYS translated "will" except in two cases.


So your argument if invalid in (#1) and pathetic in (#2)

There’s no contradiction in these verses to conditional salvation.
Please send some more.

The verse does not teach "conditional salvation"
and I never implied it did. I provide the verse to show
you that the meaning of any passage must harmonize with
ALL RELATED Scripture... I guess you missed the point,
either intentionally or for lack of reading comprehension.


.

 

[5thKingdom]

I said:

This is not difficult.
They that went out from us in 1 John is the
unsaved tares that fall away and leave the church.
I happened in John's day and it happens today...
tares fall away.

But there are no tares present for this message.

Of course there are unsaved "tares" present in the passage...
1 Jn 2 is making the POINT that those who fall away are
DEMONSTRATING they were never regenerated.


1Jn 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

So your saying that when Jesus says the word “anyone” here in verse 6 that this does not apply to His 11 faithful apostles who are the only people present?

Pleeeese... Jesus said many things to His disciples ONLY
that are recorded in Scripture so the Saints throughout
the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" would have the text
to guide them... is this really "news" to you?


Mar 4:10-12
And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.


The Scripture (all of the Scriptures) are talking to ALL THE SAINTS
throughout history... otherwise we could just throw the Bible away
since NOTHING applies to 2020.

there are several more verses that support conditional salvation.

What do you mean "several more"...
you have not shown ONE VERSE that teaches
conditional salvation. You have only shown verses
that teach the unsaved "tares" can (and most will)
fall away.

If we deny Him, He also will deny us; If we are faithless,
He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.”
‭‭

So, let me get this straight... you are saying that Peter
was not saved?


John 18:27
PeterG4074 thenG3767 deniedG720 again:G3825 andG2532 immediatelyG2112 the cockG220 crew.G5455

Here’s one I bet you weren’t expecting to support conditional salvation.

“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:37‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Did you know the Greek word erchomai that is translated to “comes or cometh” is only used in the present and imperfect tense? So this means the ones who presently and continuously comes to Christ will not be cast out.

(1) First, here is a better translation:


(LITV) All that the Father gives to Me shall come to Me,
and the one coming to Me I will in no way cast out.

(YLT) all that the Father doth give to me will come unto me;
and him who is coming unto me, I may in no wise cast without,


(2) Second, this in no way teaches "conditional salvation",
it is just another example of what we talked about at the top
of this post... there are many unsaved tares in the church
(coming to Christ) who fall away... that demonstrates they
were never saved.


1Jn 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


So, once again you show that those who come to Christ
are both saved "wheat" and unsaved "tares" and the tares
fall away... they STOP coming. This is not "news" to me...
is it "news" to you?

Nothing is more important than the word of God my friend. Reformed theology began just 500 years ago and has been rejected by every single church established by the apostles. You should read up on the early church writings outside the scriptures to see what the early church was teaching.

(1) First, the doctrines you call "Reformed theology" were
the doctrines taught by Jesus and the Apostles and early church.
Of course the teachings got progressively corrupted after
Constantine got involved and the RCC gained power.


(2) Second, I am VERY FAMILIAR with the "early church writings"
and understand that the "early church" was still debating the "milk"
of the Gospel for the first 1000 years of Christian history. In fact,
the Council of Nicaea was still debating the deity of Christ...
so please spare me any argument about the knowledge of those
in the RCC.


(3) Third, the Reformation was the "high water mark" of theology
for the church. And the church has grown progressively less
faithful ever since.


In fact, it was always a major PART of the Gospel that unsaved
tares would infiltrate the church (wolves in sheep's clothing) and
the "leaven" of their false doctrines would corrupt the church and
eventually the entire Christian "Kingdom of Heaven".

Surely you believe that the gates of hell will not prevail
against Christ’s Church?

When you say the word "church" what is your CONTEXT?


(1) Are you talking about the corporate "church" on every
street corner that consists of BOTH unsaved "tares" and
MAYBE very few saved "wheat". Because it was always
PART of the Gospel that this "church" would become
apostate before the Lord's Return.


(2) Or are you talking about the invisible "church" that
consists of ONLY the saved "wheat" throughout history?
And this "church" grows progressively more faithful over
history - so that the Last Saints "shall understand" Biblical
mysteries that remained "closed up" and "sealed" to all
previous Saints [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10]


You see... if you cannot even DEFINE the term you are using
then you have no hope of understanding Biblical Truth about
that subject.

If reformed theology was taught in the early church then
surely there would be evidence to support that throughout
the Church’s history. Unfortunately there’s not.

That is just a nonsensical statement.

Of course reformed theology was not taught by the RCC.
That is the REASON that God caused the Reformation, to bring
back Biblical teachings to the "church". The RCC had a strangle
hold on the teaching of Scriptures from around 300AD until the
Reformation. The Reformation rejected most of the heresy the
RCC was teaching and, as I said before, over a couple of hundred
years, the Reformed or Orthodox Protestant teaching became
the high water mark for Christian theology.


The Creeds and Confessions of the Reformed churches were
MUCH more faithful than the RCC before or the apostate churches
after the Reformation even to this day.


Today most of the Christian "churches" are teaching false
"works gospels" which are hardcore heresy... of course the Bible
foretold there would be very little faithful teaching during the time
before the Lord's Return.



.

 

[eleos1954]

Of course the PROBLEM with your notion is the Bible is very
clear that NO MAN will ever seek God, no, not even one.

Jesus was very clear that NO MAN will come to Him unless
the Father "draws" them and ALL MEN the Father draws
"shall come"... and He will lose NONE of them.





The Bible is VERY CLEAR that God only "elects" certain people.
And the Bible is VERY CLEAR that NO MAN will come to God
unless God "draws" them.


You do not want the Gospel of the Bible.
You want a Gospel where MEN are Sovereign...
Where MEN can do some good work and then God is
OBLIGATED to save them. OK... follow whatever "gospel"
you want to design.





Of course the PROBLEM is that NO MAN will believe...
unless God first "draws" them. So your verse means
that the "elect" shall not perish. I agree.





That is correct. The only PROBLEM is that ONLY those
God "elects" will become alive. You want to PRETEND
that MAN gets to "elect" themselves... that is NOT
what the Bible teaches.

But you do not want to hear what the Bible teaches...
you want the Bible to say that MAN is Sovereign and
MAN gets to initiate the salvation process by doing some
good work and then GOD is OBLIGATED to finish the process.

Right... show me ONE VERSE in the Bible that says
MEN get to decide to "elect" themselves... or that men
get to initiate the salvation process.

You cannot find such a verse because they do not exist.
All the verses that say man believe or have faith are verses
talking about the "elect" and ONLY the "elect".





Right... tell that to all the people killed in Noah's Flood.
Or all the people destroyed by the Jews.
Or all the people in the Lake of Fire.

The Biblical DEFINITION of "love" is to "keep my commandments"





Right... and the Bible says that NONE will seek God, no, not one.
That is why God had to "elect" people... because NONE would
ever "choose to love him"... try reading Romans 1 thru 3.





Not true at all.
I am preaching the tremendous LOVE of God (for His elect)
You are pretending that God loves everyone the same.....
then WHY is hell so heavily populated?

You will say that many people do not choose to come to God.
But the Bible teaches that NO MAN comes to God.

You simply do not want the Gospel of the Bible.
You want your own "works gospel" where you pretend
that men are not REALLY DEAD... they still have just enough
life left in them where they can seek God.

OK... follow whatever gospel you want.


.

no ... He seeks us .... and draws us ... we CHOOSE to respond or not .... and He knows what everyones responses will be.

I get it that you don't like the fact He created His intelligent beings with free will (choice) ... including the angels .... and satan and the 1/3 CHOSE to not love Him and rebelled against Him.

Again .... Love is not possible without freewill .... one can not force one to love another.

"God is love." When properly understood, these words of the apostle John are of great comfort to the people of God. For that God is love means that God is the God of our salvation. John tells us, "In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him" (I John 4:9). God is love in and of Himself. His very essence is love.

But that great love He has also shown to us. God manifested His love to us by sending Christ to die for us in order that we might have eternal life. It is in His love that God saves us through Christ. In fact, we can even say that it is the love of God that saves us—saves us just as much as does the grace of God. For God's sovereign love is the source and cause of all that belongs to our salvation. Without that love, there could be no salvation.

OK... follow whatever gospel you want.

and I (and others) certainly will ....

 

[BNR32FAN]

(1) First, it is NOT the same word used in 1Tim 2:4
G2307 is not found in the verse

1Ti 2:4
WhoG3739 willG2309 have allG3956 menG444 to be saved,G4982 andG2532 to comeG2064 untoG1519 the knowledgeG1922 of the truth.G225

It is the same word. G2307 & G2309 are two forms of the same word. One is a noun the other is an adjective. Just like the word desire in English can be used either as a noun or a verb.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So your argument if invalid in (#1) and pathetic in (#2)

My argument is pathetic? Did you look at the definition I provided? Did you look in Strong’s concordance? Did you compare thelēma G2307 and thelō ethelō G2309?