Not all the Church Fathers said Mary was sinless

[Standing Up]

He was called... Aaron!

into the priesthood

Did he appoint himself?

 

[Arsenios]

into the priesthood

Did he appoint himself?

How about Melchizedek?

How was he called?

Did he appoint himself?

And in this way perhaps we can be...

er...

Avoiding confusion of red herring with avocado dip...

Mind you...

Arsenios

 

[Standing Up]

How about Melchizedek?

How was he called?

Did he appoint himself?

Doesn't say. But Christ didn't.

Psalm110:4
The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

So, you're thinking Christ called Himself and appointed Himself priest forever. If not, this is a waste of time.

 

[Arsenios]

Doesn't say. But Christ didn't.

Psalm110:4
The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

So, you're thinking Christ called Himself and appointed Himself priest forever.

If not, this is a waste of time.

I am merely offering that the Priesthood of Aaron and that of Melchizedek are not the same...

And that your subjection of Christ to the rules of the Aaronic Priesthood is most likely misplaced...

Because Christ is the "Priestifier" of the Priesthood...

Both before, during, and after His Incarnation...

Arsenios

 

[Standing Up]

I am merely offering that the Priesthood of Aaron and that of Melchizedek are not the same...

And that your subjection of Christ to the rules of the Aaronic Priesthood is most likely misplaced...

Because Christ is the "Priestifier" of the Priesthood...

Both before, during, and after His Incarnation...

Arsenios

The concept is the same. Christ didn't appoint/glorify himself. He was baptized by John,

Heb. 5:5-6
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Phil 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

 

[Arsenios]

The concept is the same. Christ didn't appoint/glorify himself. He was baptized by John,

Heb. 5:5-6
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Phil 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

There you have it -

As a human being, He was not baptized into the Priesthood...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

There you have it -

As a human being, He was not baptized into the Priesthood...

Arsenios

From this morning's Epistle Reading at the Entry of our Lord into the Temple at 40 days of age where He was met by Symeon, long awaiting:

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath He was made priest:
Heb 7:21
but this with an Oath by Him that said unto Him,
"The Lord swore and will not repent,
'Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:'")

He was entered into this Priesthood by God's Oath...
God-Appointed...
UNLIKE the Priesthood of Aaron...

Arsenios

 

[justinangel]

From this morning's Epistle Reading at the Entry of our Lord into the Temple at 40 days of age where He was met by Symeon, long awaiting:

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath He was made priest:
Heb 7:21
but this with an Oath by Him that said unto Him,
"The Lord swore and will not repent,
'Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:'")

He was entered into this Priesthood by God's Oath...
God-Appointed...
UNLIKE the Priesthood of Aaron...

Arsenios

A happy and blessed Feast of the Presentation of Jesus.

 

[Arsenios]

A happy and blessed Feast of the Presentation of Jesus.

Back at ya, Brother!

A.

 

[Standing Up]

From this morning's Epistle Reading at the Entry of our Lord into the Temple at 40 days of age where He was met by Symeon, long awaiting:

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath He was made priest:
Heb 7:21
but this with an Oath by Him that said unto Him,
"The Lord swore and will not repent,
'Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:'")

He was entered into this Priesthood by God's Oath...
God-Appointed...
UNLIKE the Priesthood of Aaron...

Arsenios

Yes, Christ was God appointed. That was my point. Christ did not appoint Himself (glorify Himself into the priesthood per Heb. 5:5).

The difference between what we're saying is apparently you think Symeon appointed Him, whereas it was done at His baptism (suffice for righteousness sake - not to appoint yourself, though Christ could have).

 

[Arsenios]

Yes, Christ was God appointed.

The Mystery here is that Christ is also God...

There is no time when Christ is not God...

That was my point.
Christ did not appoint Himself
(glorify Himself into the priesthood per Heb. 5:5).

This is where it is essential to keep the context of the TWO NATURES of Christ...
In His human nature, He was obedient to His Father in Heaven...
And in this human nature, His Father made Him High Priest...
After the Order of Melchizedek...

An Eternal Order... God Appointed... Not given by man at all...

The difference between what we're saying is
apparently you think Symeon appointed Him,

I am saying God alone appointed Him...
It was between Him and the Father alone...

whereas it was done at His baptism

That would take it out of the realm of the Eternal Order of Melchizedek...

And place it in the hands of John the Baptist...

(suffice for righteousness sake - not to appoint yourself, though Christ could have).

The Baptism of Christ was needed for the fulfillment of all righteousness...
That is what Scripture states...
Christ IS Righteousness...
We are Baptized INTO Christ...
Therefore it was done for OUR righteousness...
And NOT for Christ's, which you seem to imply...

Arsenios

 

[Standing Up]

The Mystery here is that Christ is also God...

There is no time when Christ is not God...



This is where it is essential to keep the context of the TWO NATURES of Christ...
In His human nature, He was obedient to His Father in Heaven...
And in this human nature, His Father made Him High Priest...
After the Order of Melchizedek...

An Eternal Order... God Appointed... Not given by man at all...



I am saying God alone appointed Him...
It was between Him and the Father alone...



That would take it out of the realm of the Eternal Order of Melchizedek...

And place it in the hands of John the Baptist...



The Baptism of Christ was needed for the fulfillment of all righteousness...
That is what Scripture states...
Christ IS Righteousness...
We are Baptized INTO Christ...
Therefore it was done for OUR righteousness...
And NOT for Christ's, which you seem to imply...

Arsenios

Tricky thing to separate things, rather than view the whole.

Heb. 5:5-6
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

 

[Arsenios]

Tricky thing to separate things, rather than view the whole.

Indeed...

Heb. 5:5-6
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest;
but He that said unto Him,
"Thou art my Son,
today have I begotten Thee."
As He saith also in another place,
"Thou art a priest for ever
after the order of Melchizedek".

"He that said unto Him," is God the Father...
The Priesthood of Melchizedek is eternal...
Therefore ONLY God can appoint it...

Orthodox Christians understand that Christ,
When referred to as He:
"Who was made the eternal Priest after the Order of Melchidezek,"
refers to His human nature...

And indeed, throughout New Testament Scripture,
one must be careful to discern and differentiate Christ Incarnate
from Christ the eternal Logos of God...

They are the same Person, but refer to His two natures...
Fully human...
AND...
Fully God...

Arsenios

 

[Standing Up]

Indeed...

"He that said unto Him," is God the Father...
The Priesthood of Melchizedek is eternal...
Therefore ONLY God can appoint it...

Yes, and He said unto Him, when?

 

[Arsenios]

Yes, and He said unto Him, when?

This day...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

BYZ – Heb. 5:5-6
ουτως και ο χριστος ουχ εαυτον εδοξασεν
So also the Christ not Himself did glorify

γενηθηναι αρχιερεα
to have been birthed High Priest

αλλ ο λαλησας προς αυτον
But (did glorify Him) the one Who said unto Him:

υιος μου ει συ
Son of Mine are You

εγω σημερον γεγεννηκα σε
I today have birthed You!

καθως και εν ετερω λεγει
Just as also in another place He is saying:

συ ιερευς εις τον αιωνα
You a Priest unto the Ages

κατα την ταξιν μελχισεδεκ
According to the Order of Melchisedek

(My wooden literal translation)

Yes, and He said unto Him, when?

These are the words of institution by God to Christ:

"Today have I BEGOTTEN You"

He is speaking of Christ's incarnate ordination into the Eternal [Order of Melchisedek] Priesthood.

This is far beyond the Aaronic Priesthood, where all the Priests die...

One is BIRTHED INTO this Priesthood BY God.

One is NOT ordained by human hands...

It is a whole 'nother priesthood...

Arsenios

 

[patricius79]

A happy and blessed Feast of the Presentation of Jesus.

Beautiful painting. I can't believe that Lent is almost ready to begin. May our sinless Mother help us to prepare well for our union with the Crucified Lord.

 

[Arsenios]

Beautiful painting.
I can't believe that Lent is almost ready to begin.
May our sinless Mother help us to prepare well for our union with the Crucified Lord.

Soon will come the Great Lenten Fast...
The first week, Clean Week - Monday through Friday...
Two small meals - Vegan...
The first after Vespers Tuesday...
The second, after Vespers Thursday...
Strict fasting the rest of the time...
Water and maybe a little fruit juice...

Then vegan two a day meals until the end...
The fasting schedule of the Great Church...
Christian Holy Tradition for two thousand years...
Then Holy Week, and greater fasting...
And more Divine Services throughout...
And all the time questing for God...
Some labor or podvig embraced...
Some holy purposing afoot...

I always almost resent the 10 days of no fasting following Great Lent and Pascha...
Rich foods seem too much...
And much food is too much...
And for many, this is the time of great spiritual collapse...
As the gains of the Fast are squandered...
Much like conversation after Holy Communion...
And we so quickly revert to our secular hearts...

May your labors be fruitfull!

Arsenios

 

[Standing Up]

BYZ – Heb. 5:5-6
ουτως και ο χριστος ουχ εαυτον εδοξασεν
So also the Christ not Himself did glorify

γενηθηναι αρχιερεα
to have been birthed High Priest

That's the point. Unlike Aaron, Christ could have, but He didn't. Like Moses with Aaron, John baptized Christ. And it was in the order of Melchizedek, meaning no beginning or ending, as you grasped.

 

[Arsenios]

That's the point.
Unlike Aaron, Christ could have, but He didn't.

The only way He COULD have is to have done so in His Divine Nature, and this He did not do, because that would have wrongly led His human nature from obedience to self-direction... The OBEDIENCE of Christ to His Father in Heaven is an essential feature of discipleship IN Christ, where we are, as Paul writes, to OBEY those appointed over us, for they must give account for our souls, that they do so joyfully... Heb 13:17

The point you are missing is that the Melchidesek Priesthood is ONLY entered at the behest of God Himself, God consecrates - Paul again: "Whom Christ has justified, these also He glorifies." That final Glorification by God is the mark of Sainthood, where the shadow of Peter heals the sick, and his napkin as well, where people appear and disappear, [ Acts 8:39 ] utterly directed in their whole being by God alone, and not by their selves at all... It is the last stage of discipleship in the Body of Christ...

Like Moses with Aaron, John baptized Christ.

This is where you err, because the Baptism of John, being done by the hands of a man, cannot confer an eternal priesthood... Even the Baptism of Christ only enters one INTO the Body of Christ - AFTER that, comes the discipling that confers more than this...

And it was in the order of Melchizedek, meaning no beginning or ending, as you grasped.

I have, and you still seem to miss, because no beginning and no ending are ONLY God's to give, and not man's, in the form of Baptism... Human hands that Baptize can only enter a person into Christ, they cannot confer the Priesthood of Melchisedek...

Arsenios