not all Christians hate gays, so why are we not speaking up?

[joshuanazar]

how do you know those picketing are Christians? did you do survey of them?

as for picketing, I'd love to picket the WH - if I were up to picketing these days...

I think if you know so many who hate gays - you need some new friends and church mates! I don't know anyone IRL who hates them.

Whether they are christians or not, I do not know. But with signs like "God hates gays", "queer is a sin!", and "you're going to hell", they are telling everyone that God is behind them. My entire point is that Christians should try to fix this misconception that is often being portrayed. The blame for this current issue does not just fall on Christians. But we can only do our part and it will be a start. And most cannot hold out against real love for long.
I do not like picketing, but I am open to other forms of public demonstration. But it must be organized.

 

[joshuanazar]

Hi Joshuanazar, while I am happy to report that, for the most part, I don't come into contact with Christians like you just described, I am also aware that I live in a very blessed little Christian "bubble" and what I experience at my church is not true in a number of others ..

*(Of course, when you speak of those who do not display 'His' love for the hurting and the lost, at least not anywhere close to consistently, I would say that nearly every Christian I know would admit to being guilty of that, and I put my name at the top of the list)

You continue:



Again, I do not personally experience the kind of apathy you are here describing, at least not to this degree with any consistency, but I am sorry that you do ..

As for the rest however, the need to love like He does, to love each other, to love the lost, all I can say to that brother is ..

Yours in Christ,
David

Sorry though I see this behavior as consistent among some church people, I have to admit that for most of the people close around me it is not consistent. Example being that maybe they are going through a hard time and a homeless person comes to church. They hug him and welcome him, but their problems are more pressing and they end up ignoring him for the rest of the time. They later realize their mistake and strive to do better. And for a time they do. But for that one homeless guy it didn't matter that this was an isolated incident, the damage has been done.

I firmly believe that focusing on the problem, only shows us the problem. But focusing on Jesus and his love will show us the answers.

 

[JLR1300]

I think that the main reason Christians tend to be in strong opposition to homosexuality is because homosexuals act differently than other sinners for the most part.

Homosexuals are super militant. They have a strong agenda to spread a homosexual culture throughout America. They are doing everything they can to stop any speech that they do not agree with. If you list a group of sins and list homosexuality among them you will be called a hater and attacked without mercy.

They have taken over the media, taken over hollywood, and are pushing hard to take over the public schools. If you oppose their radical agenda they will use the media to brand you as a hater and do everything possible to get you fired. They have re-defined marriage and used politics in Churches to get whole denominations to accept gay marriage. There is no end to how much they want to fundamentally transform America.

This is different from other sinners. Most Alcoholics to not do everything they can to get people fired if they hear someone say that Alcoholism is bad. Most liars do not insist that Churches publically accept lying as normal for Christians. Most thieves do not try to get a person fired if they say that stealing is wrong. Most theives do not have big parades down main street in celebration of stealing. Most Adulterers do not do everything they can to infilutrate schools in with the hope of teaching Children that Aldultery is normal and something to be celebrated and you are a biggot if you say that Adultery is wrong. Most other sinners do not get the colleges and universities to do away with free speech so that anyone who has an opinion they don't agree with will be suspended for "hate speech"

Vast numbers of Homosexuals really don't believe in free speech, free press, freedom of Religion etc.

The reason homosexuals are sometimes more strongly opposed than other sinners is because they have set themselves up. They have put themselves in that situation by purposely doing everything they can to force Americans in general and Christianity in particular to accept and celebrate their perversion. God help anyone who attempts to stand in the way of their war on traditional American culture.

 

[thankfulttt]

I think that the main reason Christians tend to be in strong opposition to homosexuality is because homosexuals act differently than other sinners for the most part.

Homosexuals are super militant. They have a strong agenda to spread a homosexual culture throughout America. They are doing everything they can to stop any speech that they do not agree with. If you list a group of sins and list homosexuality among them you will be called a hater and attacked without mercy.

They have taken over the media, taken over hollywood, and are pushing hard to take over the public schools. If you oppose their radical agenda they will use the media to brand you as a hater and do everything possible to get you fired. They have re-defined marriage and used politics in Churches to get whole denominations to accept gay marriage. There is no end to how much they want to fundamentally transform America.

This is different from other sinners. Most Alcoholics to not do everything they can to get people fired if they hear someone say that Alcoholism is bad. Most liars do not insist that Churches publically accept lying as normal for Christians. Most thieves do not try to get a person fired if they say that stealing is wrong. Most theives do not have big parades down main street in celebration of stealing. Most Adulterers do not do everything they can to infilutrate schools in with the hope of teaching Children that Aldultery is normal and something to be celebrated and you are a biggot if you say that Adultery is wrong. Most other sinners do not get the colleges and universities to do away with free speech so that anyone who has an opinion they don't agree with will be suspended for "hate speech"

Vast numbers of Homosexuals really don't believe in free speech, free press, freedom of Religion etc.

The reason homosexuals are sometimes more strongly opposed than other sinners is because they have set themselves up. They have put themselves in that situation by purposely doing everything they can to force Americans in general and Christianity in particular to accept and celebrate their perversion. God help anyone who attempts to stand in the way of their war on traditional American culture.

Your reply was so good that I have stored it in my word documents.

 

[ihavefoundgod951]

I hate no one, hate the sin love the sinner is my motto

 

[joshuanazar]

I think that the main reason Christians tend to be in strong opposition to homosexuality is because homosexuals act differently than other sinners for the most part.

Homosexuals are super militant. They have a strong agenda to spread a homosexual culture throughout America. They are doing everything they can to stop any speech that they do not agree with. If you list a group of sins and list homosexuality among them you will be called a hater and attacked without mercy.

They have taken over the media, taken over hollywood, and are pushing hard to take over the public schools. If you oppose their radical agenda they will use the media to brand you as a hater and do everything possible to get you fired. They have re-defined marriage and used politics in Churches to get whole denominations to accept gay marriage. There is no end to how much they want to fundamentally transform America.

This is different from other sinners. Most Alcoholics to not do everything they can to get people fired if they hear someone say that Alcoholism is bad. Most liars do not insist that Churches publically accept lying as normal for Christians. Most thieves do not try to get a person fired if they say that stealing is wrong. Most theives do not have big parades down main street in celebration of stealing. Most Adulterers do not do everything they can to infilutrate schools in with the hope of teaching Children that Aldultery is normal and something to be celebrated and you are a biggot if you say that Adultery is wrong. Most other sinners do not get the colleges and universities to do away with free speech so that anyone who has an opinion they don't agree with will be suspended for "hate speech"

Vast numbers of Homosexuals really don't believe in free speech, free press, freedom of Religion etc.

The reason homosexuals are sometimes more strongly opposed than other sinners is because they have set themselves up. They have put themselves in that situation by purposely doing everything they can to force Americans in general and Christianity in particular to accept and celebrate their perversion. God help anyone who attempts to stand in the way of their war on traditional American culture.

None of what you send is wrong. But the posts in this thread are still focusing on the wrong thing. These people are not the enemy and it is not their agenda. It is Satan's agenda and he is the enemy. Just because they might set themselves up against christians does not mean that we should view them as our enemies. We need to show nothing but love. If they decide to get us fired like you pointed out, then we should hug them on the way out the door and show nothing but pure love. God will supply our needs, we don't need to rely on any job. You also said that they have redefined marriage. How can you redefine something that God has spoken? It is God that says what marriage is, no one else. You also say that they have gotten whole denominations to accept homosexuality. Now, that is those churches fault that they do not know the truth.

We should constantly show nothing but God's pure love. After all, that is what Jesus would do. Satan will probably use them to take advantage of us. But love is the only way to show them Christ. Wouldn't you think it would be worth it to lose everything that you have, maybe even your life, to see one lost person fall in love with Jesus?

 

[thankfulttt]

None of what you send is wrong. But the posts in this thread are still focusing on the wrong thing. These people are not the enemy and it is not their agenda. It is Satan's agenda and he is the enemy. Just because they might set themselves up against christians does not mean that we should view them as our enemies. We need to show nothing but love. If they decide to get us fired like you pointed out, then we should hug them on the way out the door and show nothing but pure love. God will supply our needs, we don't need to rely on any job. You also said that they have redefined marriage. How can you redefine something that God has spoken? It is God that says what marriage is, no one else. You also say that they have gotten whole denominations to accept homosexuality. Now, that is those churches fault that they do not know the truth.

We should constantly show nothing but God's pure love. After all, that is what Jesus would do. Satan will probably use them to take advantage of us. But love is the only way to show them Christ. Wouldn't you think it would be worth it to lose everything that you have, maybe even your life, to see one lost person fall in love with Jesus?

Have to give you kudos for your stance, but how does the following verse come into play.

John 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

 

[joshuanazar]

Have to give you kudos for your stance, but how does the following verse come into play.

John 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

Yes Jesus became angry at the money changers taking advantage of the people. But I have to bring up Zacchaeus the chief tax collector, who also took advantage of the people and he received a much better greeting. Now, we all know that Jesus is not a respecter of persons, so the difference has to be within the people. The money changers heart's were hardened, while Zacchaeus was pliable. Also, I want to point out that these were temple workers. They were religious people and this was not the only time he cleansed the temple. In fact Jesus got angry a lot but it was always toward the pharisees, the religion of that day. I cannot recall Jesus ever getting upset with sinners, only the religious.

 

[Dan61861]

Yes Jesus became angry at the money changers taking advantage of the people. But I have to bring up Zacchaeus the chief tax collector, who also took advantage of the people and he received a much better greeting. Now, we all know that Jesus is not a respecter of persons, so the difference has to be within the people. The money changers heart's were hardened, while Zacchaeus was pliable. Also, I want to point out that these were temple workers. They were religious people and this was not the only time he cleansed the temple. In fact Jesus got angry a lot but it was always toward the pharisees, the religion of that day. I cannot recall Jesus ever getting upset with sinners, only the religious.

Sorry, don't mean to distract from the conversation. I'm curious though. How do you get that zacchaeus took advantage of the people. He is in the Gospel of Luke. It says he gave half his earnings to the poor, I find that incredible. If any had a dispute with him, he repay ed them four times what they claimed.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[RileyG]

I hate no one, hate the sin love the sinner is my motto

 

[pescador]

Yes Jesus became angry at the money changers taking advantage of the people. But I have to bring up Zacchaeus the chief tax collector, who also took advantage of the people and he received a much better greeting. Now, we all know that Jesus is not a respecter of persons, so the difference has to be within the people. The money changers heart's were hardened, while Zacchaeus was pliable. Also, I want to point out that these were temple workers. They were religious people and this was not the only time he cleansed the temple. In fact Jesus got angry a lot but it was always toward the pharisees, the religion of that day. I cannot recall Jesus ever getting upset with sinners, only the religious.

Jesus was angry that the temple had been turned into a marketplace -- "zeal for your house has consumed me". That is different than becoming angry at the money changers for taking advantage of the people. Rather than a place of sacrifice and worship it had become a business.


His other anger at the Pharisees is similar but has a different focus.

 

[joshuanazar]

Sorry, don't mean to distract from the conversation. I'm curious though. How do you get that zacchaeus took advantage of the people. He is in the Gospel of Luke. It says he gave half his earnings to the poor, I find that incredible. If any had a dispute with him, he repay ed them four times what they claimed.

In Christ
Daniel

Zacchaeus was the chief tax collector. He was a thug. He cheated people out of their money that repaying back four fold was paying back the people he cheated. And that happened that was only after he met Christ. Awesome, under the law he only had to repay two fold, but he went further out of love.

 

[joshuanazar]

Jesus was angry that the temple had been turned into a marketplace -- "zeal for your house has consumed me". That is different than becoming angry at the money changers for taking advantage of the people. Rather than a place of sacrifice and worship it had become a business.


His other anger at the Pharisees is similar but has a different focus.

Do we really believe that Jesus was upset about a physical house? When he said that the kingdom of heaven resides in us, when he said his body was the temple, when he said that those who worship will worship in Spirit and truth, and when he said that God doesn't want sacrifice but obedience. He called the temple a den of thieves because they stole and ripped off the people.

He was angry at the Pharisees for spiritually taking advantage of the people. He said that they lay burdens on the people that they won't lift themself. That they go all over making new converts and turning them into even bigger sinners.

It is obvious that God's heart had always been toward the people, not physical dwellings.

 

[thankfulttt]

firstly, I know most of us here agree homosexual lifestyle is a sin, but it is one of the sins. not the sin.

yet I see many mainstream Christians ( my impression at least), their hatred towards gays are personal

you can see this by the fact they want to 'force' gays to change their ways instead of the usual route with the sinners, and that is share gospels with them and love them, not "treat them with love' but full of hatred for them, which doesn't take a genius to figure that one out?

I am just watching this video, and the preacher hit the hammer on the nail but saying " don't bother sharing gospel with them if you are not going to act like Christ"

but more importantly, there are many of us who don't agree with those Christians such as Franklin Graham, who seem to be shouting the loudest in the media, yet we say nothing to contradict them, and let them know not all Christians are like that?

Revelations 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

 

[Svt4Him]

Quoted with permission: The Evidence Bible

Rather than offend homosexuals by directly confronting the issue of their sinful lifestyle, modern evangelism often tries to soften the approach by saying that "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner." This isn’t a new concept.

Charles Finney stated, "God is not angry merely against the sin abstracted from the sinner, but against the sinner himself. Some persons have labored hard to set up this ridiculous and absurd abstraction, and would fain make it appear that God is angry at sin, yet not at the sinner. He hates the theft, but loves the thief. He abhors adultery, but is pleased with the adulterer. Now this is supreme nonsense. The sin has no moral character apart from the sinner. The act is nothing apart from the actor. The very thing that God hates and disapproves is not the mere event—the thing done in distinction from the doer; but it is the doer himself. It grieves and displeases Him that a rational moral agent, under His government, should array himself against his own God and Father, against all that is right and just in the universe. This is the thing that offends God. The sinner himself is the direct and the only object of his anger."

So the Bible shows. God is angry with the wicked [Psalm 7:11], not with the abstract sin. If the wicked turn not, God will whet His sword—He has bent His bow and made it ready—not to shoot at the sin, but the sinner—the wicked man who has done the abominable thing. This is the only doctrine of either the Bible or of common sense on this subject" (The Guilt of Sin).

The biblical way to witness to a homosexual is not to argue with him about his lifestyle but to use the Law to bring the knowledge of sin. This will show him that he is guilty of breaking God’s holy Law, and he is damned not because of, but despite his sexual preference. The Law was made for homosexuals, as well as other lawbreakers.

 

[Sketcher]

Quoted with permission: The Evidence Bible

Rather than offend homosexuals by directly confronting the issue of their sinful lifestyle, modern evangelism often tries to soften the approach by saying that "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner." This isn’t a new concept.

Charles Finney stated, "God is not angry merely against the sin abstracted from the sinner, but against the sinner himself. Some persons have labored hard to set up this ridiculous and absurd abstraction, and would fain make it appear that God is angry at sin, yet not at the sinner. He hates the theft, but loves the thief. He abhors adultery, but is pleased with the adulterer. Now this is supreme nonsense. The sin has no moral character apart from the sinner. The act is nothing apart from the actor. The very thing that God hates and disapproves is not the mere event—the thing done in distinction from the doer; but it is the doer himself. It grieves and displeases Him that a rational moral agent, under His government, should array himself against his own God and Father, against all that is right and just in the universe. This is the thing that offends God. The sinner himself is the direct and the only object of his anger."

So the Bible shows. God is angry with the wicked [Psalm 7:11], not with the abstract sin. If the wicked turn not, God will whet His sword—He has bent His bow and made it ready—not to shoot at the sin, but the sinner—the wicked man who has done the abominable thing. This is the only doctrine of either the Bible or of common sense on this subject" (The Guilt of Sin).

The biblical way to witness to a homosexual is not to argue with him about his lifestyle but to use the Law to bring the knowledge of sin. This will show him that he is guilty of breaking God’s holy Law, and he is damned not because of, but despite his sexual preference. The Law was made for homosexuals, as well as other lawbreakers.

Anger != hatred. God undeniably hates the acts. If he hated the people, would Christ have died for anybody?

 

[Dan61861]

Quoted with permission: The Evidence Bible

Rather than offend homosexuals by directly confronting the issue of their sinful lifestyle, modern evangelism often tries to soften the approach by saying that "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner." This isn’t a new concept.

Charles Finney stated, "God is not angry merely against the sin abstracted from the sinner, but against the sinner himself. Some persons have labored hard to set up this ridiculous and absurd abstraction, and would fain make it appear that God is angry at sin, yet not at the sinner. He hates the theft, but loves the thief. He abhors adultery, but is pleased with the adulterer. Now this is supreme nonsense. The sin has no moral character apart from the sinner. The act is nothing apart from the actor. The very thing that God hates and disapproves is not the mere event—the thing done in distinction from the doer; but it is the doer himself. It grieves and displeases Him that a rational moral agent, under His government, should array himself against his own God and Father, against all that is right and just in the universe. This is the thing that offends God. The sinner himself is the direct and the only object of his anger."

So the Bible shows. God is angry with the wicked [Psalm 7:11], not with the abstract sin. If the wicked turn not, God will whet His sword—He has bent His bow and made it ready—not to shoot at the sin, but the sinner—the wicked man who has done the abominable thing. This is the only doctrine of either the Bible or of common sense on this subject" (The Guilt of Sin).

The biblical way to witness to a homosexual is not to argue with him about his lifestyle but to use the Law to bring the knowledge of sin. This will show him that he is guilty of breaking God’s holy Law, and he is damned not because of, but despite his sexual preference. The Law was made for homosexuals, as well as other lawbreakers.

How do you reconcile, while we were yet sinners...Christ died for us.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[retlaw]

Christians hating gays is a myth perpetrated by Satan to put wedges between gays and Jesus and his Church. I have yet to meet the first Christian who hated gay people. Most all of them have friends and family that are gay and they pray for them but they don't hate them. It's the same sort of thing where a prostitute feels like she would not be welcome at church. She has this impression and to be quite honest she might not be welcome at all churches but MANY churches i.e. the good ones she would be welcomed with open arms. Nobody would say her lifestyle was ok, nobody would lie to her just to make her feel good about herself, but they would try to help her. Bottom line is Satan doesn't want that to ever happen.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

Christians hating gays is a myth perpetrated by Satan to put wedges between gays and Jesus and his Church.

Perpetrated by Satan? I would agree.


Myth? I am not sold on that, to be honest.

I have seen churches run gay members out merely because they are gay. Seen "Christians" beat, verbally abuse, and bully gay individuals. Heard them claim all gays and queers should be, and I quote, "beat back into the closet". That doesn't strike me as "love the sinner, hate the sin" in the least. It strikes me as hating the sinner. There is a line there between ministering to the sinner while keeping to Scripture on what is sin and hating them for the sin. I find it crossed often, and this does have very negative impacts - for both sides of the issue.

It puts a wedge between gays and the Church. And, sadder still, it can often put a wedge between them and God. It shouldn't, no. But it can.

While it may not actually be a majority of Christians that take this attitude so far -and I agree, it certainly isn't a majority- it is a VOCAL minority [WBC, the "Christian" leaders in Uganda, etc.], and even that small number being vocal is a weight on the rest of Christianity who truly love them and want to help them. Who want to minister to them and see them find God.

 

[ArtBlinked]

I've grown up in a very liberal area and so honestly I haven't seen the Christian hate for gays that many others have seen. I know it exists.

I am also a Christian. This is where I stand.


I believe we need to show the love of Christ to everyone, including gays. I also believe God loves gay people. I believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin as stated in the Bible. I believe that an unrepentant person who sins will go to hell. I also believe that it is a believers responsibility to speak up for these things when the subject arises.


I have lived many years not speaking up and simply "loving" and praying for the unrepentant sinners around me. I have come to the realization that simply praying in silence for those around you is not all we are called to do. We need to speak up when given the opportunity. Speak in love and with a gentle spirit, but do speak. And live your life as close to Christ as you can so that they may not find fault.