Northwestern Theological Seminary

[dysert]

Why do you think something like a doctorate could be legitimately earned quickly? If it is that quick, it is likely not worth it, wouldn't you think?

I'm not defending Northwestern, but I don't see where Roger indicated how "quickly" he wanted to finish. And besides that, a doctorate need not take an extended period of elapsed time -- it's how many person-hours of work you can put into it that determines how long it takes.

 

[Christianmilitaryofficer]

I'm not defending Northwestern, but I don't see where Roger indicated how "quickly" he wanted to finish.

It was where he said...

My involvement with Northwestern is because I want to get a doctorate quickly.

He did not say how quickly, but he did say quickly.

And besides that, a doctorate need not take an extended period of elapsed time -- it's how many person-hours of work you can put into it that determines how long it takes.

Not really. A doctorate is considered something reputable because it takes a LOT to get one. The work is hard, and it takes time. The length of time is dependent on the person, some people learn more quickly than others, but the real criteria is the difficulty of the curriculum. Regardless of the curriculum, however, it should take some time to accomplish

You previously said, "I will tell you this: compared to other curricula I've looked at (e.g., from the Master's Seminary, or Liberty University), Northwestern is a cake walk."

If it is a cake walk, what are you really gaining?

 

[dysert]

Not really. A doctorate is considered something reputable because it takes a LOT to get one. The work is hard, and it takes time. The length of time is dependent on the person, some people learn more quickly than others, but the real criteria is the difficulty of the curriculum. Regardless of the curriculum, however, it should take some time to accomplish

Of course. My only point is that it may take Person A 4 years to finish because he worked on it one day/week. Person B may only need 2 years to finish because he worked on it two days/week. Again, it's not the *elapsed* time, but the amount of effort (person-hours) expended.

You previously said, "I will tell you this: compared to other curricula I've looked at (e.g., from the Master's Seminary, or Liberty University), Northwestern is a cake walk."

If it is a cake walk, what are you really gaining?

Just because it's a cake walk compared to other curricula, it doesn't mean I won't learn things. And it's possible that the degree will still be considered a valid credential in some circles.

I'm not arguing, I just want others to know what they're getting into when they enroll in Northwestern. Assuming I ever finish, I think it will have been a reasonable roll of the dice (again, if the schools at which I want to teach will recognize the degree; but I won't know that until I've got it).

 

[Christianmilitaryofficer]

Of course. My only point is that it may take Person A 4 years to finish because he worked on it one day/week. Person B may only need 2 years to finish because he worked on it two days/week. Again, it's not the *elapsed* time, but the amount of effort (person-hours) expended.

But it does not really work that way. The time factor is a result of several factors, and it not a simple linear single variable equation. If that were the case, you might have a point, but there are nuances I do not think you are considering.

Just because it's a cake walk compared to other curricula, it doesn't mean I won't learn things. And it's possible that the degree will still be considered a valid credential in some circles.

The programs you were comparing it to were hardly the creme de la creme of the intellectual world. I cannot think of a single serious Biblical scholar who came out of Liberty or Masters, even in the Evangelical Christian world. Both schools are accredited, but not really all that intellectually rigorous. So to use those as your metric for academic rigor...

I'm not arguing, I just want others to know what they're getting into when they enroll in Northwestern. Assuming I ever finish, I think it will have been a reasonable roll of the dice (again, if the schools at which I want to teach will recognize the degree; but I won't know that until I've got it).

Why don't you ask some of the schools in which you might consider teaching if they would accept the diploma? It would have saved you some time and money. I suspect you would have a better chance achieving your goals with a Master's degree from an accredited university that has a challenging program, rather than a Doctorate from NTS.

 

[dysert]

Why don't you ask some of the schools in which you might consider teaching if they would accept the diploma? It would have saved you some time and money. I suspect you would have a better chance achieving your goals with a Master's degree from an accredited university that has a challenging program, rather than a Doctorate from NTS.

Believe it or not, I did ask the schools, and none of them would give me a straight answer! It was like, "well, we'd have to see the curriculum, we'd have to see the syllabi, we'd have to see your thesis, we'd have to see your transcript..."

And the reasons I chose NTS, as I mentioned in an earlier post, came down to:

• it had to be 100% online
• it could have no residency requirements
• it had to be theologically sound (in my mind)
• it had to be inexpensive
• it had to be "at my own pace" (since I work full time)

It may be different now, but back when I was looking I found no other program that fit these criteria. (I've been wondering lately if I should have just waited until something better came along.)

 

[Christianmilitaryofficer]

Believe it or not, I did ask the schools, and none of them would give me a straight answer! It was like, "well, we'd have to see the curriculum, we'd have to see the syllabi, we'd have to see your thesis, we'd have to see your transcript..."

If they could not give you a straight answer, then the answer was no. Can you give some examples of the schools where you were looking into teaching?

And the reasons I chose NTS, as I mentioned in an earlier post, came down to:

• it had to be 100% online
• it could have no residency requirements
• it had to be theologically sound (in my mind)
• it had to be inexpensive
• it had to be "at my own pace" (since I work full time)

It may be different now, but back when I was looking I found no other program that fit these criteria. (I've been wondering lately if I should have just waited until something better came along.)

Honestly, and this is not meant to be mean though it may come across that way, but you cannot simply have your cake and eat it too. Online education is beneficial, I do a lot of it myself, it is sort of required in my line of work, but there is no magic bullet. I do what I can for professional development through approved channels.

In about two months I start working on another degree from a very prestigious program that is quite honestly going to kill me for about two years, no television, no weekends, and very little fun, but that is because it should be worth it in the long run. A quick fix like NTS should never be considered. A Doctorate should take blood sweat and tears to be legitimate, that is why we consider Doctorates so prestigious. There has been a tendency in Christian circles to circumvent the process because people want the degree without the time, and it hurts the person, but it also hurts Christianity.

Modern Christianity is a dying faith, not because of the belief system itself but because it has been stripped of the intellectual rigour that once defined Christian belief. Most Christians have never even heard of the intellectual luminaries such as Augustine, let alone read them, and it is causing a rapid decline.

Just my opinion, take it or leave it, but I hate to see anyone taken advantage of, and that is what it looks like has happened.

 

[Inha]

Netsrik, thanks for the information! I'm looking into getting my masters there and what's making me wonder is just that there don't seem to be many specialized classes. Their BA may be great but what about their MA? I would like to be a Seminary teacher in the future. I'm currently a missionary in SE Asia and need something affordable and online.

 

[Marcus Constantine]

Netsrik, thanks for the information! I'm looking into getting my masters there and what's making me wonder is just that there don't seem to be many specialized classes. Their BA may be great but what about their MA? I would like to be a Seminary teacher in the future. I'm currently a missionary in SE Asia and need something affordable and online.

If you plan to teach on the graduate level you'll need at least a doctorate. To get that, obviously you'll need a masters degree. An M.A. from Northwest wouldn't get you into any doctoral program that was accredited. Similarly, a doctorate from Northwest wouldn't allow you to teach in an accredited school in the U.S. or in most reputable schools elsewhere. I hire professors and deal with accreditation issues, so this isn't speculation. Another way to go would be with an inexpensive international university like the University of South Africa. If this is your first degree in theology though, I'd go with a Christian university like Liberty University (a typical M.A. is something like $18,000-20,000 total tuition), but there is a lot of financial aid available and the option for student loans. I also usually recommend Baptist Bible College (in Pennsylvania), Regent University, or Piedmont International University if you're looking into more theologically conservative schools. Piedmont is interesting in that they have a program that gives you an accredited M.A. where you live for less than $3,000 in tuition, which is a bargain. All of those schools have doctoral programs too, so you could conceivable do a M.A. and Ph.D. at the same school or get one from one school and switch to another. There are a ton of good options out there, but I can't recommend Northwest (especially after reading some of the posts in this thread).

 

[StubbsBoy]

Well all I can say is pray about it and let the holy spirit lead you and guide you. The way I look at it is the best bible school is the School Of The Holy Spirit. No theologian can teach you the word of God better than God himself. So no matter what school you choose just make sure its grounded in the true Word of God.​

 

[Nathan Freedom]

FACTS: I'm a student of NTS since Jan 2012. Facts about NTS..you be the judge.
I enrolled in this school after reading some inspiring testimonies at their website including the suppossed FBI article in support of NTS. It's been almost a year now and none of my experience come close to the claims. First I was registered to a wrong program that took almost 2 months to rectify. I turned in my first assignment on January 24 of this year, and turned in 3 more course assignments after that. It is now November and none of my assignments have been graded despite numerous contact to my Student Adviser. I kept resubmitting my assignments at least 5 times over the months to no avail. Of my numerous emails to contact my student adviser for questions and assistance, he only responded twice with less than 10 words. The school has no phone so I wrote a letter mailed to my to my Student adviser, that was 2 months ago and still have not received any reply. Since January, the school has obtained over $1,000.00 payment from me through automatic payment from my bank. The reference books used in their curriculum are not available to buy in any book stores even in Amazon. The only way you can get a copy is by downloading the pdf and printing it. I'm sure the people that works here love God but unfortunately the standard of service demonstrated is very low. If this has been a non-Christian school or any non-Christian organization, I don't think I would have given them much of my forgiving and patience. But do I want others to experience this? Of course not. That is the reason why I decided to post this experience of mine, so they can make their own judgment and decision.

 

[Nathan Freedom]

MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AS A STUDENT OF NTS: After reading all the student testimonials at the NTS website including the Retired Federal Agent Miguel Contreras Report of the school, I decided to enroll. Here are my experiences: 1. I was initially registered on a wrong program. 2. I was placed on a single degree program instead of a discounted dual degree program I applied for. 3. I submitted my first course assignments within a month of registration for grading. I have submitted 3 additional course assignments after that and it’s been almost 11 months now and NONE of my courses have been graded. I have written my assigned Student Advisor numerous times and have not received any response regarding my grades. Since they do not have a phone, I have emailed and resubmitted all my course assignments at least 5 times within this past 11 months to no avail. 4. I even wrote a personal letter to my Student Advisor for assistance 2 months ago and still have not received any reply. If this is non-Christian school or any secular organization, I don’t think I would have been forgiving and patient. I am saddened to say that this school has the worst Customer Service I have ever experienced in my life. The student testimonies may have been true years ago, but I can guarantee you as of November 2012, it is not what it claimed to be based on my own personal experience. To this date I have paid over $1300 to the school and felt taken advantage of. So, if you don’t want any regrets or feel betrayed (as I do) by a Christian organization who supposed to represent the excellent work of Christ, I would seriously have a second thought of registering. I hope this testimony will help anyone make wise choices.

I'm familiar with the school through reputation only. I couldn't recommend anyone going there from what I've heard. They seem to be dishonest in their claims. I actually recently read a short review that a colleague of mine wrote about that school. He is a Registrar and reviews various colleges and seminaries. He must have been pretty riled when he wrote this, because it is little more aggressive than usual! Anyway, here is what he said:

that's from The Baptist Resource, his website.

I'm assuming he is talking about the same Northwestern Theological Seminary. If what he is saying is correct, and it seems to be, then I would have to agree that you should be leery of this place. There are much more solid, accredited places out there. I would stick with one of those.

 

[EhudsDagger]

Is there anybody still out there reading this?

I just finished at program at NTS (B. Th.) and have been unable to tie up all the loose ends. I have, as of today, sent eight emails (dating back as far as December 8), one fax, and two phone calls. None have been responded to. I still have not received my diploma. More than that, I don't know how to get a copy of my transcript. The graduate school that I am attempting to pursue my MA at will not accept me without reviewing my transcript.

I was hoping that someone had figured out a way to contact these people. Also, I read on a previous post that someone was considering an attorney. I was really hoping for some kind of feedback.

This sort of behavior is not one that any student should expect, especially from a Christian institution.

Thanks in advance

 

[StubbsBoy]

I hope you get everything sorted out soon. I can only imagine how you feel. But I pray that God will bring this matter to an end for all of his saints in Christ. Deep down inside I don't think these are some bad people, I just feel it's some sort of mis-communication. I'm praying for you all to find closure in this matter.

 

[EhudsDagger]

StubbsBoy,

I appreciate your prayers and concern. I don't think that these are intentionally evil people. Please pray that God would bring these issues to an end. I did email an attorney today just to sort of get a feel for things. I don't want to even think like that but I don't know what else to do. . . I am literally stuck in between my undergrad and MA because of NTS dragging their feet. It is unacceptable. This is not even how the world operates. Why in the world should Christians? It is reprehensible.

Peace in Christ,

 

[StubbsBoy]

StubbsBoy,

I appreciate your prayers and concern. I don't think that these are intentionally evil people. Please pray that God would bring these issues to an end. I did email an attorney today just to sort of get a feel for things. I don't want to even think like that but I don't know what else to do. . . I am literally stuck in between my undergrad and MA because of NTS dragging their feet. It is unacceptable. This is not even how the world operates. Why in the world should Christians? It is reprehensible.

Peace in Christ,

God will make a way. He understand your concerns and I'm continuing to pray. In the body of Christ things like this should not go on for this long. But I know there is a logical reason behind somethings that happens. But be encourage and keep that passion and stay pushing for your degrees. Don't stop now and whatever your heart leads you to do after consultation with Our Lord and Savior, then just do it.

 

[EhudsDagger]

RegretfulExperience,

I would really like to talk to you about the whole process of contacting an attorney. I am experencing nearly the same thing thus far with NTS. Would it be possible to exchange emails? I tried 'PM'ing you but it wouldn't allow me because I am too new to this thread.

What do you say? How can I contact you?

Thanks in advance,

EhudsDagger

 

[Roger Baker]

I have been struggling with NTS for some weeks after finishing my dissertation and submitting it. I will be writing the external authority who ran the school when it had a very good reputation, [FONT=&quot]Bishop Sarkela. He's officially the man responsible for the denomination owning the school.

I would deeply appreciate responses from everyone who has had problems getting responses from NTS. If Bishop Sarkela and Dr. Galloza cannot resolve this issue, there are other avenues. I think the leadership should be held accountable in the Christian and American traditions, which means first, take the problem up the ladder. Bishop Sarkela deserves a chance to correct this.

Just my two cents.

I need as many people as think they've been cheated on their tuition and service to write me. You can find out more about at my site Rogerbaker dot net and you can email me at Roger dot Baker at rogerbaker dot net. I appreciate any and all emails, and will respond to you directly. Posts on this board are welcome, but also public.

Grace! -Rog
[/FONT]

 

[Roger Baker]

Contacting NTS problems explained. [FONT=&quot]Finally discovered that the school will never telephone you. You can phone them and leave a message if you wish.

Contacted Bishop Sarkela. His emails were terse, but I did get action. I was told I now have my doctorate and I received a refund of almost $400. That's the good part.

The downside is - 6 weeks later and no diploma. It isn't that this school is a fraud, because in most cases, it isn't... the problem is they lack any staff at all, just the president of the school. Maybe they have other staff overseas, but here in the US, it's a one-man operation.

I do not recommend Northwestern Theological Seminary, despite receiving a Ph.D. (less the diploma). They can make promises, but don't seem able to keep them.

Grace! -Rog
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Roger Baker]

Nathan, I am sorry to hear of your problems with NTS. I suffered much the same. I am guessing your Student Advisor was Dr. Samuel Galloza. He seems to be the only US-based advisor. Dr. Galloza doesn't return phone calls, rarely returns emails, and collects the payments. This is my experience. I hope yours was different. I started to send emails & US mails to the head guy, Bishop Sarkela. Took a while to get through to him, but he got my dissertation read and I received 3 emails from Dr. Galloza the day after that.

So from my judgement, this isn't a good set-up. I don't see evil in their hearts, but if a student gets discouraged because there is almost no support, I don't blame them a bit.

 

[NTS Administrator]

Concerning Northwestern Theological Seminary:
Northwestern Theological Seminary is part of a 33-year old educational ministry established in 1980, with approximately 1,000 physical branches in many countries worldwide. NTS is headquartered in Florida for the NTS online program. Their Administrative Office is located in Mt. Dora, Florida at Solid Rock Worship Center, an Affiliate of our very own Worldwide Church of Jesus Christ which is also part of the Northwestern Theological Seminary worldwide ministry network. One of our Senior Bishop’s of WCJC in Mt. Dora, Florida at the Solid Rock Worship center location. Northwestern also has a mail box service in Port Richey, Florida, to handle volume mail from it's worldwide branches. NTS alumni have been ordained by major denominations and NTS has numerous students and alumni from major Colleges and Universities such as Liberty University. Northwestern offers a quality curriculum and cannot be compared to degree mills, which are scams operating on the Internet. Northwestern requires substantial work to earn a degree and their curriculum is almost identical to that of major seminaries and Christian universities in regard to Biblical / theological course requirements. Northwestern has been investigated and determined to be a legitimate seminary. NTS is authorized to operate as a religious based educational program by the State of Florida and is authorized as a 501 ( c )3 no0n profit religious organization by the United States Government..
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']It has been uncovered that unscrupulous competitors have been making false statements in blog posts and social networks on the Internet in an attempt to sabotage NTS. We know who they are and we pray for their repentance as they are attacking God’s ministry and grieving the Holy Spirit. It is very unwise for anyone to publicly attack a ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ based on false assumption or with malicious intent, seeking to hurt a ministry of God. All we can do is pray for them to repent. God does not attack His own ministry meant to make disciples through education. Only satan by the spirit of the anti-Christ seeks to hinder the cause of Christ. But, God’s Vision in the Great Commission will be accomplished and no attack of the enemy will succeed as we are more than conquerors in Christ Jesus. Amen…[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']By the direction and wisdom of our Lord Jesus Christ,[/font]NTS remains highly ranked on the Internet as a viable alternative to the more expensive major seminaries and Christian universities. Many have said that it is a miracle for NTS to maintain such a high ranking for so many years? Jesus is doing it in accord with His perfect Will… NTS is recognized as one of the oldest and largest non-traditional online seminaries in the world and recognized in the Christian community for providing quality; Christ centered education to thousands who cannot afford the high cost of traditionally accredited programs. Northwestern’s costs are 98% less than private colleges and universities and paid based on a minimum suggested Love Offer with no extra fees and FREE books. Potential students just enter a minimum Love offer amount on the online application through the NTS website.
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] NTS was investigated by a former U.S. Federal Agent and found to be a quality educational program.[/font] Former U.S. Federal Agent; Miguel Contreras’ review is available on the site topics menu of the NTS website as are numerous positive student testimonials. Agent Contreras was so impressed through his investigation, that he later enrolled and graduated from Northwestern. NTS is a ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ responsible for the education of thousands of Christian disciples since 1980. We are dedicated to our calling of providing quality Christian education offering servants of our Lord Jesus Christ the preparation they need to serve in Christian ministry avocations at a cost that most can afford worldwide. Please visit the Student Testimonials LINK on the seminary website: