Non-Violence as Taught in the New Testament is Moral and Good.

[Francis Drake]

Pacifism, or rather non-resistance, as taught by Jesus in Matthew 5:39, is clearly taught and promoted in the New Testament contrary to your quotes.

I love the way you pacifists selectively use scriptures, like this one that gets repeatedly quoted.
Matt5v39But I tell you not to resist the evil person. Instead, whoever shall strike you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.

You conveniently avoid the likes of these ones though.-
Matt5v29And if your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and cast it from you. For it is better for you that one of your members should perish and not that your whole body should be cast into Gehenna. 30And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and cast it from you, for it is better for you that one of your members should perish and not that your whole body should depart into Gehenna.

If you insist on verse 39, then you have no choice but also accept verses 29 and 30!

I presume that you have a guide dog, and someone else is posting on your behalf, because if you are not a liar but honest, then you will have plucked your eyes out and sliced your hands off.
After all, nobody is perfect and the punishment for that imperfection is dictated in verses 29 and 30 isn't it?

Whether you have plucked your eyes out or not, the fact of the matter is that you are the blind leading the blind in your posts.

Read the verse that precedes verse39 and you will realise that Jesus is setting an impossible target because of the self righteous Pharisees, and your thinking is exactly the same as the Pharisees.

Matt5v20For I say to you that unless your righteousness shall abound above that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall never enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

Jesus then lists what is required for self perfection, much of it thought crime! I suggest you read that list to see how perfect you are, because you cannot just take one verse out for your pet theologies.

The last verse should be a wake up call.-

Matt5v48You shall be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect.

Are you perfect my friend, coz that's what's at stake here?
If you haven't plucked your eyes out and chopped your arms off, then you must be claiming self perfection.

 

[Francis Drake]

After all the ins and outs of analysis are done, the reason that cessationists are cessationists is because the gifts ceased.

Hohohoho...

It is not a theory, not based upon teasing some interpretation out of a Bible passage, not conjecture about the Holy Spirit. None of that. It is because they did cease.

Just because your church resists the Holy Spirit, it doesn't mean that the rest of us do.

I have had over 40 years of living with prophecies, visions, tongues dreams etc.
My life has been directed and immensely blessed by the Holy Spirit manifestation of these gifts.

 

[Albion]

Hohohoho...

Just because your church resists the Holy Spirit, it doesn't mean that the rest of us do.

I would love to discuss this further if you were willing to address the facts of the matter.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hohohoho...

in the gardengardengarden .....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Matt5v39But I tell you not to resist the evil person. Instead, whoever shall strike you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.

You conveniently avoid the likes of these ones though.-
Matt5v29And if your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and cast it from you. For it is better for you that one of your members should perish and not that your whole body should be cast into Gehenna. 30And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and cast it from you, for it is better for you that one of your members should perish and not that your whole body should depart into Gehenna.

If you insist on verse 39, then you have no choice but also accept verses 29 and 30!

Seems like a non-sequitur to me. (Doesn't follow from the given verses)

 

[SteveIndy]

rofl, now that's funny. The amount of pride you must possess to say that about those incredibly godly men is just ridiculous.

It is no wonder that Jesus said that very few will be able to enter through the strait gate, that the vast majority will be content to walk in the broad-way. These matters of the Church are openly available to all who pursue truth but most do not want truth, they want easy-believism.

I find it sad that a Christian thinks it funny, but those who died at Calvin's hands did not think so. No one having an introductory knowledge of Christian history is ignorant of these facts. His most famous murder was the man Servetus who came to Calvin for shelter. On 4 April 1553 Servetus was arrested by Roman Catholic authorities, and imprisoned in Vienne. He escaped from prison three days later. On 17 June, he was convicted of heresy, "thanks to the 17 letters sent by John Calvin, preacher in Geneva" and sentenced to be burned with his books.

Jesus’ teaching to “love your enemies” didn’t stop Calvin from killing them. Paul’s instructions for dealing with people who theologically disagree with you were ignored: “A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth” (2 Timothy 2:24-25). Calvin authorized beheadings, death by fire, and torture rather than exercise patience and kindness with competing theologians. His enforcement of biblical doctrines looked more like ISIS than Jesus.

Martin Luther was no different, his affair with the government is well known. Although Luther was indirectly linked to the "Peasant's War" he did speak out against it, but in such words that those peasants were put down brutally. As the rebellion escalated to violence, Luther took a harsher stance on the peasants, whom he now condemned as robbers and rebels to be killed on sight.

Huldrych Zwingli, after turning his back on his once friends the "Anabaptist" who he was in agreement with but later changed his mind for political purposes, engineered their demise and death. Zwingli, in fear rather than faith, in his zeal to introduce his theology into all the surrounding Cantons cut off the food supply to one Canton run by the Catholics trying to starve them into submission. But, he did this at a time that he could ill afford a skirmish and the Catholics revolted which resulted in this "incredibly godly man," as you describe him, being killed with a sword in his hand trying to kill the same people he would evangelize.

These "incredibly godly men" and the whole Protestant Reformation ended more as a race with the Catholics to see who could kill the most innocent people.

But, since Protestantism rules in the world of Christian thought amongst Protestant Churches little to nothing is ever heard from those who held to the authentic belief of the primitive Church of the first 300 years. Only those who take it upon themselves to find the truth will discover the truth.

 

[SteveIndy]

I love the way you pacifists selectively use scriptures, like this one that gets repeatedly quoted.
Matt5v39But I tell you not to resist the evil person. Instead, whoever shall strike you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.

You conveniently avoid the likes of these ones though.-
Matt5v29And if your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and cast it from you. For it is better for you that one of your members should perish and not that your whole body should be cast into Gehenna. 30And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and cast it from you, for it is better for you that one of your members should perish and not that your whole body should depart into Gehenna.

If you insist on verse 39, then you have no choice but also accept verses 29 and 30!

I presume that you have a guide dog, and someone else is posting on your behalf, because if you are not a liar but honest, then you will have plucked your eyes out and sliced your hands off.
After all, nobody is perfect and the punishment for that imperfection is dictated in verses 29 and 30 isn't it?

Whether you have plucked your eyes out or not, the fact of the matter is that you are the blind leading the blind in your posts.

Read the verse that precedes verse39 and you will realise that Jesus is setting an impossible target because of the self righteous Pharisees, and your thinking is exactly the same as the Pharisees.

Matt5v20For I say to you that unless your righteousness shall abound above that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall never enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

Jesus then lists what is required for self perfection, much of it thought crime! I suggest you read that list to see how perfect you are, because you cannot just take one verse out for your pet theologies.

The last verse should be a wake up call.-

Matt5v48You shall be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect.

Are you perfect my friend, coz that's what's at stake here?
If you haven't plucked your eyes out and chopped your arms off, then you must be claiming self perfection.

Well, it's quite certain then that you advocate for killing your enemies since all that stuff about loving your enemies, turning the other cheek, and picking up your cross and following Jesus is just so much hyperbole and that we can just plug-in our own little take on His words and really just do as we please and hope that He sees thing our way. Good luck friend.

 

[SkyWriting]

I have been meaning for the past couple of days to begin this thread, and I hate to say it but this is one thing some Christians practice that I cannot stand.

Pacifism? Uh oh. Should we smack em?

 

[Francis Drake]

Well, it's quite certain then that you advocate for killing your enemies

Good try, but I never said that did I.

since all that stuff about loving your enemies, turning the other cheek, and picking up your cross and following Jesus is just so much hyperbole.

Another batch of selected scriptures, but conveniently missing off the eye gouging and arm lopping off, or is that just so much hyperbole?

and that we can just plug-in our own little take on His words and really just do as we please and hope that He sees thing our way. Good luck friend.

Given the nonsense here, it's quite obvious you haven't understood Matt5 at all.
Go on, tell us how you escaped plucking your eyes out and chopping your arms off. Your self perfection obviously works out then.

Or are you still faking it, cos it'll all come out in the end!

 

[dogs4thewin]

Pacifism? Uh oh. Should we smack em?

no, but we should not let them walk all over us, either.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

no, but we should not let them walk all over us, either.

Yeah!
LOOK at Jesus' Example - He did not just let them..... oh , wait... HE DID, HE DID ! HE LET THEM CRUCIFY THE SON OF MAN !

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I have been meaning for the past couple of days to begin this thread, and I hate to say it but this is one thing some Christians practice that I cannot stand.

Hmmm. obedient Christians.... go figure .....

There's a lot in the op that looks wrong, in fact, in Scripture, and in motive.

If you cannot stand it, should we discuss it ?

 

[Francis Drake]

Yeah!
LOOK at Jesus' Example - He did not just let them..... oh , wait... HE DID, HE DID ! HE LET THEM CRUCIFY THE SON OF MAN !

And afterwards, will consign the unbelievers to everlasting damnation.

 

[Francis Drake]

I remember a World Peace campaign that came to the churches my town back in the early80s.
I went to one meeting and was horrified at the garbage that was being spoken. So between that meeting and the next one, I typed and copied a sheet of scriptures that exposed the out of context verses and statements they were using.
At the next meeting, myself and a group of friends stood at the door and merely handed the sheets out.

Shortly after the meeting started, someone handed the panel of experts at the front of the church a copy of my sheet.
The result being that these "pacifists" erupted in blind fury.

I remember the words of the red faced leader, "I am so angry I could kill someone...…."
Hilarious, you couldn't make it up.

No matter how much the good works brigade wear their badges of self perfection, it invariably all falls apart at the first real trial.

Their hearts are as dark as everyone else.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And afterwards, will consign the unbelievers to everlasting damnation.

Yes,
so have the same attitude as Jesus :
Philippians 2:5-11 New Living Translation (NLT)

5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.

6 Though he was God,a]">[a]
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privilegesb]">[b];
he took the humble position of a slavec]">[c]
======================================
1 Peter 4:1-2 Amplified Bible (AMP)
Keep Fervent in Your Love
4 Therefore, since Christ suffered in the flesh [and died for us], arm yourselves [like warriors] with the same purpose [being willing to suffer for doing what is right and pleasing God], because whoever has suffered in the flesh [being like-minded with Christ] is done with [intentional] sin [having stopped pleasing the world], 2 so that he can no longer spend the rest of his natural life living for human appetites and desires, but [lives] for the will and purpose of God.
=================================
Mark 10:38
But Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be baptized with the baptism [of suffering and death] with which I am baptized?”
==============================
Romans 8:18
For I consider [from the standpoint of faith] that the sufferings of the present life are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us and in us!
==============================
2 Corinthians 1:5
For just as Christ’s sufferings are ours in abundance [as they overflow to His followers], so also our comfort [our reassurance, our encouragement, our consolation] is abundant through Christ [it is truly more than enough to endure what we must].
================================
Philippians 1:29
For you have been granted [the privilege] for Christ’s sake, not only to believe and confidently trust in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
===============================
2 Thessalonians 1:5
This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering.


BibleGateway - Keyword Search: suffer

 

[Francis Drake]

Turning the other cheek, Apostle Peter style.
Acts5v3Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
5When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. ………………..
Oooops!
7About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. ………………
….9Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”
….10At that moment she fell down at his feet and died.
Ooops again!

Turning the other cheek, Apostle Paul style!
Acts13v9Then Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked straight at Elymas and said, 10“You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord? 11Now the hand of the Lord is against you. You are going to be blind for a time, not even able to see the light of the sun.”
Immediately mist and darkness came over him, and he groped about, seeking someone to lead him by the hand.
Ooops yet again!

Obviously Peter and Paul didn't get that email on Pacifism and Turning the other Cheek.
Or maybe it was just a bad day for them.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Turning the other cheek, Apostle Peter style.

Oops... and what happens to mockers of the truth,
to those who twist the truth like this ?

 

[Francis Drake]

Oops... and what happens to mockers of the truth,
to those who twist the truth like this ?

Hahaha.
I merely posted two scriptures, and you get your knickers in a twist, (or pants in a wad I think is how you'd put it.)
How can my scriptures mock the truth?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hahaha.
I merely posted two scriptures, and you get your knickers in a twist, (or pants in a wad I think is how you'd put it.)
How can my scriptures mock the truth?

Ah.... another mock, another twist,
as if you agree with Scripture.

 

[Francis Drake]

Ah.... another mock, another twist,
as if you agree with Scripture.

Goodness me, such sensitivity.
Do you do that to avoid responding to the actual scriptures I posted.
They do contradict your stance a wee bit, a tad, a smidgen.