Non-Trinitarian???

[leothelioness]

What does it mean to be non-trinitarian? How can you be non-trinitarian and be a Christian? Can someone help me understand this?

 

[arunma]

What does it mean to be non-trinitarian? How can you be non-trinitarian and be a Christian? Can someone help me understand this?

This is probably the obvious answer, but a non-Trinitarian is someone who rejects the doctrine of the Trinity. Surprisingly, I've found from my study of the early church that the doctrine of the Trinity was one of the most widely accepted of all doctrines (even the Arian heretics believed in a version of Trinitarianism). But just as there were heretics then, so too are there heretics today. For example, certain sects of Messianic Jews (but by no means all) believe that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God, but reject that Jesus is divine. At the other end of the spectrum, there is a church called "Oneness Pentecostal," who believe that Jesus is God, but who reject Trinitarianism. Essentially, they believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all one Person. I've also met a non-Trinitarian who presented his views on my university campus. He believes that Jesus is divine in some sense, but utterly rejects Trinitarian doctrine.

So how can you be a non-Trinitarian and a Christian? In short, you can't. The Trinity is one of the most ancient and important of all Christian doctrines. I would say it is on par with the resurrection and salvation by grace. A Christian who rejects the Trinity is not a Christian.

 

[Atlantians]

Exactly. The Christian God is a being who exists at once as three persons in one being. That is our God. Anyone who conciously denies that God is no Christian.

 

[Dondi]

Exactly. The Christian God is a being who exists at once as three persons in one being. That is our God. Anyone who conciously denies that God is no Christian.

I disagree. I do not think God is so much interested in trying to figure out what His nature is as much as who He is in relation to us. I've been to "Oneness Pentacostal" churches that have some wonderful Christians who love the Lord and in fact was a member of one until I found folly with their doctrine. I beleive God looks to the heart and not the mind of those trying to figure Him out. These people are truly believe this but even with an imprecise understanding of scripture, the love of God is with them.

 

[Joykins]

What does it mean to be non-trinitarian? How can you be non-trinitarian and be a Christian? Can someone help me understand this?

Sure, pretty much every Christian believes in God, but there are those that don't believe that Jesus or the Holy Spirit are God, or that they are God in the same way.

The traditional trinitarian formula is
1 God
3 Persons
1 Substance \ essence


You will see other things that some people or groups believe, which we believe to be incorrect, such as

One God
Three manifestations (I think this is modalism)

or

One God, which has a Holy Spirit
Jesus as the Son of God but not actually God himself.

there are more...

 

[Phileoeklogos]

There are two basic types of non-trinitarianism that have already been mentioned, 1. Modalist and 2. Those who deny Christ's divinity.

I think it is possible for a person to be a modalist and still be a Christian, I'd have to put you in the hetrodox camp, I believe a person can be ignorant or blinded by tradition, some may come naturally to modalism and some have to work hard to maintain that position, and if truth be told, many trinitarians are functionally modalists, just ask 5 random people at your church to give a definition of the Trinity and you'll see what I mean. The Oneness folks have bigger problems than just modalism. It's my understanding that Isaac Newton, T.D. Jakes and Tommy Tenney were/are, modalists.

The group that deny Christ's divinity, or try to make Jesus a lesser god, I don't see how a saved person could hold that position, Modalism may be an opinion on what Scripture says, but to deny Christ's divinity, make Him only a man or a lesser god, is a total denial of Scripture.

I'm not condoning the modalist position, but trying to show them some grace.

 

[Dondi]

There are two basic types of non-trinitarianism that have already been mentioned, 1. Modalist and 2. Those who deny Christ's divinity.

I think it is possible for a person to be a modalist and still be a Christian, I'd have to put you in the hetrodox camp, I believe a person can be ignorant or blinded by tradition, some may come naturally to modalism and some have to work hard to maintain that position, and if truth be told, many trinitarians are functionally modalists, just ask 5 random people at your church to give a definition of the Trinity and you'll see what I mean. The Oneness folks have bigger problems than just modalism. It's my understanding that Isaac Newton, T.D. Jakes and Tommy Tenney were/are, modalists.

The group that deny Christ's divinity, or try to make Jesus a lesser god, I don't see how a saved person could hold that position, Modalism may be an opinion on what Scripture says, but to deny Christ's divinity, make Him only a man or a lesser god, is a total denial of Scripture.

I'm not condoning the modalist position, but trying to show them some grace.

Thank you for clarifying this point.

 

[tulc]

I disagree. I do not think God is so much interested in trying to figure out what His nature is as much as who He is in relation to us. I've been to "Oneness Pentacostal" churches that have some wonderful Christians who love the Lord and in fact was a member of one until I found folly with their doctrine. I beleive God looks to the heart and not the mind of those trying to figure Him out. These people are truly believe this but even with an imprecise understanding of scripture, the love of God is with them.

Very true!
tulc(sending reps!)

 

[mlqurgw]

There are two basic types of non-trinitarianism that have already been mentioned, 1. Modalist and 2. Those who deny Christ's divinity.

I think it is possible for a person to be a modalist and still be a Christian, I'd have to put you in the hetrodox camp, I believe a person can be ignorant or blinded by tradition, some may come naturally to modalism and some have to work hard to maintain that position, and if truth be told, many trinitarians are functionally modalists, just ask 5 random people at your church to give a definition of the Trinity and you'll see what I mean. The Oneness folks have bigger problems than just modalism. It's my understanding that Isaac Newton, T.D. Jakes and Tommy Tenney were/are, modalists.

The group that deny Christ's divinity, or try to make Jesus a lesser god, I don't see how a saved person could hold that position, Modalism may be an opinion on what Scripture says, but to deny Christ's divinity, make Him only a man or a lesser god, is a total denial of Scripture.

I'm not condoning the modalist position, but trying to show them some grace.

While I am sure that the modalists have some sort of response I think they have a great hurdle to overcome where we find al three appearing at once. Matt. 3:16,17

 

[arunma]

I disagree. I do not think God is so much interested in trying to figure out what His nature is as much as who He is in relation to us. I've been to "Oneness Pentacostal" churches that have some wonderful Christians who love the Lord and in fact was a member of one until I found folly with their doctrine. I beleive God looks to the heart and not the mind of those trying to figure Him out. These people are truly believe this but even with an imprecise understanding of scripture, the love of God is with them.

I think it's important for me to point out that I make no comment on whether or not non-Trinitarians have salvation. It seems to me that according to the Scriptures, one must place his faith in Christ to be saved. It does not say that one must be a Christian in order to be saved. For example, I do believe that salvation is possible for semi-Biblical Christians such as Roman Catholics, and perhaps even for heretics such as Mormons.

But does this mean that we encourage such doctrines? Certainly not! As always, I think that love should be the rule in dealing with believers in false doctrine. We ought not to approach them from a conceited position, as if we have any superiority for having "figured out" true Biblical doctrine (since our doctrinal understanding is from the grace of God, rather than by our own intelligence). We should, however, understand that bringing non-Trinitarians to a proper Biblical understanding of God will be spiritually beneficial for them, and in this way we should serve them.

Well anyway, that's just my $0.02 on the issue.

 

[Phileoeklogos]

While I am sure that the modalists have some sort of response I think they have a great hurdle to overcome where we find al three appearing at once. Matt. 3:16,17

I agree, and you are right, they have plenty of responses, and it's always amazing to me the amount of hoops people will jump thru to maintain a position that calls for some of the most torturous manipulation of Scripture possible, but they do.

This kind of brings up a second point, God does not require us to have perfect knowledge, He is merciful and saves us all in our ignorance of Him and His nature. My pastor and I were talking a few weeks ago about that moment after we were saved, when the Holy Spirit opened our eyes to the fact that Jesus is God, we both had understood that Jesus is the Son of God, but up until that moment, never realized His equality with the Father, that Yaweh of the OT, became flesh and dwelt among us.

I guess when that realization comes, you have to process the information some way, I never had a problem believing that God is triune, but apparently some folks do, but I'm hopeful that many modalist eventually see God as unique and triune, as far as trinitarians going modalist, Sir Isaac Newton is the only person I know of that made that jump, which kind of illustrates that intelligence is no guarantee of doctrinal soundness.

 

[Dondi]

The scripture that helped me most while I was trying to sort through the "oneness" vs "triune" issue was John 14:11:

"Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."

I took this to mean that if I couldn't figure out the nature the relationship between God the Father and God the Son, I can at least believe the works Christ has done, that is His teachings, ministry, death, burial, and resurrection.

 

[Robinsegg]

My SS class recently had a study on "why Jesus is God" in light of The DaVinci Code and the unearthing of the "Judas Gospel". The most compelling arguement that those who deny Christ's divinity can't be saved is:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. John 5:18 (KJV)
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:23 (KJV)

Modalism is another story, I suppose. But I agree with the other posters who quote Matthew and say these people have a great hurdle to overcome. Can these people be saved? I suppose, since they believe in Christ's divinity.

I, too, am grateful that we are not required to have perfect knowledge to be saved.

Rachel

 

[mlqurgw]

My SS class recently had a study on "why Jesus is God" in light of The DaVinci Code and the unearthing of the "Judas Gospel". The most compelling arguement that those who deny Christ's divinity can't be saved is:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. John 5:18 (KJV)
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:23 (KJV)

Modalism is another story, I suppose. But I agree with the other posters who quote Matthew and say these people have a great hurdle to overcome. Can these people be saved? I suppose, since they believe in Christ's divinity.

I, too, am grateful that we are not required to have perfect knowledge to be saved.

Rachel

The question for me concerning the modalist is: Is the denial of clearly revealed truth damning? Hmm.

 

[JPPT1974]

We just need the saving knowledge as well as know that Christ is our Savior & Lord into our hearts and lives
Asking for His forgiveness of our sins and repenting!