Non-sexist book recommendations on marriage

[PloverWing]

[ Note: I'll post this question in one of the marriage forums also, but the WWMC forum is much closer to my beliefs than is Christian Forums generally, so I'm starting here. ]

I was talking with some young single adults from my church recently, and the topic of marriage came up. I realized that I couldn't think of any books on Christian marriage that I would recommend, so I thought I would ask here in ChristianForums. (After the conversation, I thought of L'Engle's Two-Part Invention, but that's the only book I could come up with.)

Here's some background: I became an adult in the 1970s/80s, at a time when the cultural views on marriage and gender were changing radically, and no one quite knew what to make of it all. Most of the marriage advice I got from churches back then was rubbish, very sexist by modern standards.

Now, in 2016, this group of young adults have a set of expectations about marriage and gender that is much different from the values of a generation ago. They look for a marriage that is egalitarian, not hierarchical. They reject most gender roles and stereotypes: Not all women are feminine, not all men are masculine, people have a wide variety of gender expressions, and all of that's just fine. They expect both spouses to be involved in parenting, and probably both spouses will work outside the home. (For the record, I agree with the young people on these issues.)

These young adults are also devout, committed Christians, and they want to enter into marriages that are worthy of being called a Christian Sacrament, that embody God's love in a sacred way.

Can you recommend any books that are consistent with this combination of values, that I could pass on to the young people in my church who are trying to construct Christian marriages in this newly-changed culture?

 

[Hetta]

Wow. I have no recommendations at all. One of the most popular Christian marriage books is "Love and Respect" but I think that is one of the worst books I have tried to read in my life. IMO, they may be better off speaking to married couples such as yourself who can relate real life experiences in a balanced way, rather than pick up a book that has a whole, specific agenda.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

I have no recommendations either. A lot of the Christian books I have seen on traditional marriage were relatively sexist and patriarchal in nature.

 

[FireDragon76]

Sounds to me like you are letting culture drive the discussion on marriage. I don't mean I'm a conservative Christian (I'm not) but... there is alot of traditional Christian materials on marriage that still are relevant.

I really think Paul Evdokimov's The Sacrament of Love is a good book, but it's from an Orthodox standpoint. I also read a book called Bonding that wasn't too bad, written from a conservative evangelical standpoint. It didn't strike me as being sexist.

 

[Fish and Bread]

I can't think of anything, but if there is such a book, I think it would be of great value in today's society where everything seems divided between very conservative evangelical Christian views of marriage, and completely secular views of marriage. A nice liberal or progressive Christian middle ground would probably benefit a lot of people.

You might try also asking in the Liberal Catholic area:

http://www.christianforums.com/forums/the-lords-table-liberal-catholics.966/

We've been talking about trying to include Episcopalians and Anglicans who self-identify as progressive Anglo-Catholics as full members there. That's sort of in limbo right now in terms of "official policy" (i.e. We'll see what happens), but in practice anyone who doesn't use the forum to debate against Liberal Catholic ideas has been very welcomed by 99% of the folks there (We have an Anglican priest who is a regular- although I am sure she would want me to point out that she is not necessarily liberal or Anglo-Catholic, she just comes to post in fellowship and doesn't get into areas of discussion where she might have significant differences with the forum zeitgeist. She's almost universally beloved by the regulars.). I think a thread like this would get a positive response. I don't know if anyone would have a book to recommend, but you could ask.

 

[Cappadocious]

People with folk egalitarian views on marriage generally don't turn to self-help lit. on marriage. A sign of their sanity.

 

[PloverWing]

Sounds to me like you are letting culture drive the discussion on marriage. I don't mean I'm a conservative Christian (I'm not) but... there is alot of traditional Christian materials on marriage that still are relevant.

I really think Paul Evdokimov's The Sacrament of Love is a good book, but it's from an Orthodox standpoint. I also read a book called Bonding that wasn't too bad, written from a conservative evangelical standpoint. It didn't strike me as being sexist.

There have been tremendous cultural changes on gender, sex, and marriage in my lifetime. Some of these changes are wonderful, and I support them wholeheartedly. Some of these changes are less healthy, and I do not support them. I'm one of the ones who's driving the culture, not the other way around; in my role as educator, church member, and voter, I've pushed for some of these cultural, ecclesiastical, and legal changes, as part of loving my neighbor as myself.

I understand that there are those who disagree with my values, and I wish them peace and long life. But a book that disagrees with my deeply-held beliefs about marriage and gender won't be of much use to me as I counsel young people.

Thank you for the book recommendations. I haven't read about marriage from an Orthodox perspective, so it'll be good to look at something from that tradition.

 

[PloverWing]

You might try also asking in the Liberal Catholic area:

http://www.christianforums.com/forums/the-lords-table-liberal-catholics.966/

We've been talking about trying to include Episcopalians and Anglicans who self-identify as progressive Anglo-Catholics as full members there.

Thanks for the invitation! I haven't ventured into that group, because I'm not Catholic and didn't want to intrude, but I'll check it out. I may indeed have some commonalities with liberal Catholics.

 

[grandvizier1006]

What exactly are you looking for? (As someone who reads a number of books, you will never find the perfect one). A guide for couples practicing egalitarianism? If that's the case, then I think most Christian books on marriage might suffice. Look for something that emphasizes the covenantal nature rather than the ultimately secular aspects.

While it doesn't have to do with marriage per se, I did enjoy "Man as male and female". It dispels the myths that the Bible was intended to be sexist and affirms women's ordination. It's really more of a commentary on various analyses of the genders, though, although it's more of what the Bible says about gender roles rather than "man works and woman cooks".

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Thanks for the invitation! I haven't ventured into that group, because I'm not Catholic and didn't want to intrude, but I'll check it out. I may indeed have some commonalities with liberal Catholics.

I was accepted there with open arms even though I am not a Catholic either.

 

[Cappadocious]

So what exactly do people do when they read these books? That's the part I don't understand. Are people actually sitting down and going, "wow, that story can teach me about my marriage!" "what good advice, I'll start doing that!" "what a novel idea about how to treat my wife!" "I understand that marriage-related bible verse now!"

It seems like total madness. I can't imagine any people in real life actually doing this.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

So what exactly do people do when they read these books? That's the part I don't understand. Are people actually sitting down and going, "wow, that story can teach me about my marriage!" "what good advice, I'll start doing that!" "what a novel idea about how to treat my wife!" "I understand that marriage-related bible verse now!"

It seems like total madness. I can't imagine any people in real life actually doing this.

I tried to read a couple of these books that were given to me to help "improve my Christian marriage" but I barely made it through the first chapter.

 

[FireDragon76]

It seems like total madness. I can't imagine any people in real life actually doing this.

So many mainline churches rarely delve into issues like moral theology or asceticism. And American culture is obsessed with technique. People substitute cultural and religious scripts because they are looking for self-justification instead of the radical uncertainty of building a trusting relationship with someone else, an uncertainty that must necessarily draw you away from yourself and an ethic of self-reliance. Two separate lives must become one life. If you aren't willing to do that, no self-help book could help you.

 

[Qyöt27]

So what exactly do people do when they read these books? That's the part I don't understand. Are people actually sitting down and going, "wow, that story can teach me about my marriage!" "what good advice, I'll start doing that!" "what a novel idea about how to treat my wife!" "I understand that marriage-related bible verse now!"

It seems like total madness. I can't imagine any people in real life actually doing this.

Sadly, yes. I've seen it firsthand.

More precisely, it's because they feel insecure and therefore are inclined to buy a book parroting back the Approved View™ of their - usually - fundamentalist author, which doesn't really bode well for it not being sexist. And why do they feel insecure? Because they don't feel like they're living up to the proper Approved View™ espoused by whatever nutjobs whom they've personally vested as a higher authority than their community or the two greatest commandments.

And since they feel so insecure, they'll gladly pay for books that promise to 'lay it all out' for them because they've also been conditioned to not think for themselves and intensely distrust any hint of intellectualism or self-reflection. And in many cases, not simply 'intensely distrust' but 'treat with the utmost contempt'. It's basically a gold mine to simultaneously be the ones to cast doubt and magically have the answer to solving that doubt. Just $14.99 for the guide and then revolving monthly payments to cover the cost of the 'educational' materials they've adapted from the 'content' of the book that they'd probably just sold you.

 

[Cappadocious]

We've only recently gotten bits of this in my church. A convert from one of a fundamentalist sect has published a book which says, among other things, the husband is to send the wife to bed with no dinner if she misbehaves. Luckily he is a non-entity except in certain communities on the West Coast.

 

[Mustaphile]

.....Can you recommend any books that are consistent with this combination of values, that I could pass on to the young people in my church who are trying to construct Christian marriages in this newly-changed culture?

A Christian perspective that doesn't appear dated or misogynistic is going to be hard to find.

There are two secular books that I know of that deal with masculinity in relationships. David Deida's 'The Way of the Superior Man' and one that is generally about breaking out of the current malaise of lost masculinity in general, Dr Robert Glover's 'No More Mr Nice Guy'.

Both of these deal with a huge problem in western culture and that is the spiritual and psychological emasculation of men by feminist ideals. While we can celebrate the good in feminism, it would be ignorant to think that it has not come with its downside as well. The most prominent is a loss of direction by men when it comes to understanding what it is to be a man.

The biggest issue for marriage in this day and age is that it has become a potentially disastrous institution for men to enter into. At 51 years of age I've witnessed the never ending stories of men being taken to the cleaners in the divorce courts, losing their assets and children, for no other good reason than 'irreconcilable differences'. The churches are sending many of these men off as sacrificial lambs to the slaughter. Men need to understand what they are getting into.

 

[PloverWing]

What exactly are you looking for?

Thank you for the book recommendation.

What am I looking for? I think I don't actually know, which is part of the problem. I'm looking for something to help pass on to the next generation an understanding of why we see marriage as Sacramental, as an experience of God's holy and loving Presence. We try to do that with Baptism and the Eucharist, so why not marriage too? Maybe it's one of those things that's hard to explain in advance; maybe you just muddle through your first couple of decades of marriage, and then you look back, and you see all the times that God was made visible through your love for your spouse and children, and you talk with other married couples, and they've touched God too.

But I'm a bookish sort of person, so I thought of books first.

 

[PloverWing]

So what exactly do people do when they read these books? That's the part I don't understand. Are people actually sitting down and going, "wow, that story can teach me about my marriage!" "what good advice, I'll start doing that!" "what a novel idea about how to treat my wife!" "I understand that marriage-related bible verse now!"

I have occasionally read stories that did, in fact, teach me about my marriage. L'Engle's memoir Two-Part Invention (mentioned above) and her novels A Live Coal in the Sea and A House Like a Lotus talk about the kind of forgiveness and grace that's needed in marriage. In the earlier years of my marriage, I felt I needed the advice of an older married Christian woman, and these books helped me. Lois McMaster Bujold has stories of several different marriages in her novels Barrayar, Komarr, and A Civil Campaign, and I've found that quotes from her books often come back to me as I reflect on marriage day-to-day. (Bujold writes insightfully about religion, and includes a central character in her books who is Christian, but she is herself an agnostic. L'Engle is Episcopalian, like me.)

Interestingly, all of these are stories, not abstract theology. Maybe stories are better than abstractions at teaching people about marriage (and other sacraments too?), and I should hand my young friends a stack of well-written memoirs and novels. But I still want to find more than the few I know about.

 

[Cappadocious]

I still don't understand. Has it had an impact on your lived behavior or is it more of a "that strikes me as right, I'm not alone" sort of thing?

 

[hedrick]

I wonder whether something like Bonhoeffer's Life Together might be relevant, even though it is not directly about marriage.