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Non Christians including Jews make up endtime Gentile populations

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Linda8, Nov 15, 2003.

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  1. Linda8

    Linda8 Member

    326
    +1
    Messianic
    This is a remarkable truth from the scriptures and really places the

    progression of events regarding God's interaction with man in a clear

    perspective.

    In the times up till the 1st advent, Israel/Jews had a closer knowledge

    of God and set good standards , so to speak hence the scriptures says

    they were not to behave as Gentiles and not submit to hardness of heart as the non -Christian Gentiles would do..

    Now today many Jews are now GENTILES [Not grafted in] due to rejection of God..

    EPHESIANS4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles [today's Jews, Muslims,budhists etc]walk, in the vanity of their mind,
    18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart [Jews not in Christ, Muslims..]:
    19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
    20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

    Re-acceptance of majority of Gentile Jews into Israel
    based on ONE CONDITION

    ROMANS 11:23 .. If they do NOT persist in unbelief will be grafted in, For God has the power to GRAFT THEM IN AGAIN..

    However, in Christ the New Israel HAS NOTHING to do with cultural

    and tribal selectivity criteria. That is, the only way to be OF ISRAEL

    is through Christ hence in these times

    THE GENTILES of today include

    -Many non Christian Jews who know not Christ
    -Muslims
    -Buddhists
    -Zoroastrians
    -Atheists etc

    ROMANS 9:27 Isaiah also crieth concerning (earthly) Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant shall be saved: For the Lord will execute his sentence on the earth quickly and decisively...


    That is, it is all THROUGH FAITH and makes perfect sense as taught in the scriptures. It may seem a shade strange but GOD DOES not use nationalities

    in determining who is of ISRAEL.

    How do the vast majority of JEWS feel about being the GENTILES of today?:rolleyes:

    Very interesting... Non-God believing Jews [who form the vast majority of Jews [close to 90% of ALL JEWS] are just as Gentile as Muslim Arabs, Buddhists etc..

    Your views?

    You are either with God or against God.. in the latter, as a gentile.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Wills

    Wills Member

    286
    +0
    Messianic
    Role reversal ....are they Gentiles by choice or otherwise?

    If a Jew by nationality is now a Gentile by choice, how does the

    Jew regain closeness to the bosom of Abraham?
     
  3. SonWorshipper

    SonWorshipper Old Timer

    +30
    Messianic
    :(
     
  4. Hitch

    Hitch Well-Known Member

    +10
    Protestant
    By the wickett gate...
     
  5. Hitch

    Hitch Well-Known Member

    +10
    Protestant
    Gee just maybe that shouldnt be taken literally,,ya know the way you dont take 1;1 literally. Perhaps these 12,000 are mentioned elswhere in Scripture,, maybe right here, since Jesus came primarily to the Lost sheep of Israel:


    John 6:45
    45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
    (KJV)

    Looks like a perfect number to be ...all , Jesus didnt mis any, all whom the Father called recognized Jesus as Messiah.

    Hitch
     
  6. Wills

    Wills Member

    286
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    Messianic
    I do not question the number to be sealed from each tribe.

    God knows where they are .... for He knows what is even "hidden" in human

    minds.

    It was not difficult to locate Joseph and Mary in the 1st century.... and I know for a fact that the same applies today.

    In actual fact, God knew where they would live even before they were born.
     
  7. Pericles

    Pericles Christian

    428
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    Christian
    Wills, I am still waiting for your evidence to show that Indian and British people are Jews. I have been waiting for over 2 weeks now....what evidence do you have?
     
  8. Wills

    Wills Member

    286
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    Messianic
    My focus was not on ONLY Brits and Indians. You got that completely wrong.

    The point I made was that Israelites can be found in all nations on earth. Not debatable.

    This verse tells you that they are not localised and restricted to a backyard

    somewhere--

    Rev[size=+2]7[/size] And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth :sigh: holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree..
    3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

    again MATTHEW 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



    The entire Planet's span is referred to in Rev 7 [repeated in Mt 24 earlier]during their gathering. Whether Rev 7/Mt 24 happened in the 1st century or not, is irrelevant to the fact that God spanned the Planet when referring to his Israelites and timing is irrelevant here.

    I will not discuss timing of that in this post.

    Please refrain from focusing on Brits and Indians... they are not the
    only nations on Earth where Israelites can be located
    They were merely 2 examples I gave..

    It would be quite absurd to ask whether ALL Brits are Israelites.... not all residents of a land are from the same stock. see Judea 1st advent

    God distribution of His own Israelites is not restricted.
     
  9. Pericles

    Pericles Christian

    428
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    Christian
    Yeah...so the elect are the Jews? I thought the elect are the Christians!

    No, but I insist! That's what you said!! You said that British and Indian people TODAY are Jews. I want to know how you know this! Did you make it up? I want to know if you are making up statements that you expect other people to take for granted. This has nothing to do with timing, so don't bring timing up!

    Also, are you completely ignorant of Jewish tradition, and of the fact that Jews are not supposed to marry gentiles? If these people married gentiles, they are no longer Jews...so what is your explanation of this matter?
     
  10. Wills

    Wills Member

    286
    +0
    Messianic

    The elect have accepted Christ.... their nationality is irrelevant.
    I was referring to Israelites who believe in Christ in my Rev 7 /Mt 24 in response to your question regarding Indians etc. I was NOT referring to Non Christian Jews.

    The entire Planet's span is referred to in Rev 7 [repeated in Mt 24 earlier]during their
    gathering. Whether Rev 7/Mt 24 happened in the 1st century or not, is irrelevant to the
    fact that God spanned the Planet when referring to his Israelites and timing is irrelevant
    here.

    There are Israelites all over the Planet. Period. Those 2 nations are mere examples of where they could be found. I was not limiting Israelites to those 2 nations. Any efforts to argue otherwise would be futile. God never restricted current Israelites to one location.

    Regarding Jewish marriage traditions etc , are you unaware of the fact that in Christ THERE IS NO JEW OR GENTILE...?

    Or have you never heard about that? Christ is not restricted to Jews.

    Otherwise Christ's bride would not be made up of Gentiles.

    Read the Bible.

    Israelites in Christ living on earth today are not bound by "fictional" ethnic marriage restrictions .

    In Christ there is No Jew or Gentile...
     
  11. armothe

    armothe Living in HIS kingdom...

    977
    +40
    Christian
    US-Constitution
    Could you please tell me why you believe Jews are to play such an important role in Eschatology then?

    -A
     
  12. Wills

    Wills Member

    286
    +0
    Messianic
    I believe you are referring to Israelites who have fully accepted God and Christ.
    Well , the Bible mentions their role in Revelation 7 and Revelation 14. [Matthew 24:31.. etc]

    It is important to always ensure that your definition of Jew matches that which God

    has specified ESPECIALLY regarding Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9.

    As I said, these Israelites are not known as Israelites at this time since God's plan regarding that event cannot be perceived at that level by mortals.
     
  13. Pericles

    Pericles Christian

    428
    +1
    Christian
    Uh??? What in the world are you talking about? I thought ALL ISRAEL will be saved?!?
     
  14. Wills

    Wills Member

    286
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    Messianic
    You know not the scriptures. You have no idea about the number to be saved. You may have been deceived.

    Only those who believe in Christ will be saved. :rolleyes:

    [size=-1]ROMANS 9:27 And Isaiah crieth concerning Israel, If the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only :rolleyes: the remnant shall be saved: for the Lord will execute his word upon the earth..[/size]


    Even a child could understand this.

    Revelation 7 and Revelation 14 lists a specific number of Israelites.

    Are you not aware of this?

    Romans9: 6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
     
  15. Wills

    Wills Member

    286
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    Messianic
    You have to be very careful to avoid disputing Jesus by relying on such generalisations.

    Christ was extremely severe in this regard. Please take note for God has warned all.

    Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, :rolleyes:

    God has been very very exact in this area. This warning must never be overlooked.

    Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, :rolleyes: and are not, but do lie
     
  16. Pericles

    Pericles Christian

    428
    +1
    Christian
    Wills,

    No..you are contradicting yourself. You keep saying that only a "remnant" of national Israel will be saved, while Romans 11:26 says "and so ALL ISRAEL will be saved.."

    You can't have your cake and eat it! Either ALL Israel will be saved, or only the remnant. Which one is it?
     
  17. Wills

    Wills Member

    286
    +0
    Messianic
    Carry on your argument with the Lord himself....since these are His words.

    ROMANS 9:27 And Isaiah crieth concerning Israel, If the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only :rolleyes: the remnant shall be saved: for the Lord will execute his word upon the earth..
     
  18. Pericles

    Pericles Christian

    428
    +1
    Christian
    Will ALL of Israel be saved or not?
     
  19. Wills

    Wills Member

    286
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    Messianic
    If they all kneel and bow totally in the name of Christ our Lord

    That is a big IF since a fair number of those who profess to be [[Israel]] cannot stand the mere mention of His name...
     
  20. Wills

    Wills Member

    286
    +0
    Messianic
    Let us take a step further and perhaps guide them as to what they could do
    to be be saved.

    Israel's Joshua , a man they revere, could help us out here

    Joshua 5:13 Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, "Are you for us or for our enemies?" 14 "Neither," he replied, "but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come." Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, "What message does my Lord have for his servant?" :rolleyes: 15 The commander of the LORD's army replied, "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy." And Joshua did so. :rolleyes:

    Face down.. face on earth O Israel .. bow face down in the Name of our Lord

    Exactly as Joshua did... He did not just use the name Israelite emptily.

    He bowed before Israel's head.. and the Jews will follow suit

    The alternatives would be exceedingly harsh and severe.
     
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