Nobody knows Jesus did this!

[Kerensa]

He did those all as signs. Yes, he could have teleported anywhere he wanted to, just like he could have gotten down off the Cross, but he chose not to, because it would not have been dignified according to the divine plan. Likewise, Jesus could have hatched from an egg, but again, it wouldn't be fitting. So I don't think having Jesus beaming around everywhere is a realistic idea, either. God's plan in the incarnation was to live as an ordinary human being doing his Father's work, not to live as Superman. After all, there were times when Jesus did not perform miracles.

Very true, and indeed I don't believe either that he was "beaming around everywhere" all the time. That would have been rather like the temptations to turn stones into bread or throw himself off the pinnacle of the temple — using his divine power for his own gain or to show off and grab attention inappropriately. I just think the Gospels do suggest that Jesus was able to disappear and reappear elsewhere, but it's something he only did when there was a real need for it — like when his life was in danger but it wasn't "his time", as John's Gospel emphasises a lot. As you say, he certainly didn't save himself from the crucifixion, even though he could have, because that was something he absolutely had to go through with.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

According to Strongs Concordance anyway, it is much more likely to be "immediately"
Yes indeed, "soon" and "shortly" came out as one of the usage of the word but a lot less likely. Note that other supernatural manifestations are present at the same time like Jesus walking on the water. Why not intantaneous transportation?
Strong's Greek: 2112. εὐθέως (eutheós) -- at once, directly
John 6:21 Greek Text Analysis
..

Not at all "more likely", no.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 80x
The KJV translates Strong's G2112 in the following manner: immediately (35x), straightway (32x), forthwith (7x), miscellaneous (6x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. straightway, immediately, forthwith
   

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
εὐθέως euthéōs, yoo-theh'-oce; adverb from G2117; directly, i.e. at once or soon:—anon, as soon as, forthwith, immediately, shortly, straightway.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon [?] (Jump to Scripture Index)
STRONGS NT 2112: εὐθέως
εὐθέως, adverb (from εὐθύς), straightway, immediately, forthwith: Matthew 4:20, 22; Matthew 8:3, and often in the historical books, especially Mark's Gospel (where, however, T Tr WH have substituted εὐθύς in some 35 out of 41 cases); elsewhere only in Galatians 1:16; James 1:24; Revelation 4:2, (for פִּתְאֹם, Job 5:3). shortly, soon: 3 John 1:14. (From Sophocles down.)
THAYER’S GREEK LEXICON, Electronic Database.
Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2006, 2011 by Biblesoft, Inc.
All rights reserved. Used by permission. BibleSoft.com

 

[timewerx]

Not at all "more likely", no.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 80x
The KJV translates Strong's G2112 in the following manner: immediately (35x), straightway (32x), forthwith (7x), miscellaneous (6x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. straightway, immediately, forthwith

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
εὐθέως euthéōs, yoo-theh'-oce; adverb from G2117; directly, i.e. at once or soon:—anon, as soon as, forthwith, immediately, shortly, straightway.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon [?] (Jump to Scripture Index)
STRONGS NT 2112: εὐθέως
εὐθέως, adverb (from εὐθύς), straightway, immediately, forthwith: Matthew 4:20, 22; Matthew 8:3, and often in the historical books, especially Mark's Gospel (where, however, T Tr WH have substituted εὐθύς in some 35 out of 41 cases); elsewhere only in Galatians 1:16; James 1:24; Revelation 4:2, (for פִּתְאֹם, Job 5:3). shortly, soon: 3 John 1:14. (From Sophocles down.)
THAYER’S GREEK LEXICON, Electronic Database.
Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2006, 2011 by Biblesoft, Inc.
All rights reserved. Used by permission. BibleSoft.com

Based on the information you've given, the word is still strongly leaning towards immediately.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Based on the information you've given, the word is still strongly leaning towards immediately.

No , that's not true.

It is merely one option,

and even then is not understood unless the Father in heaven grants from Himself to someone to know in his spirit .

 

[dms1972]

I grant the word "immediately" has made me on occasion wonder what was meant, but I think had this been important the Holy Spirit would have led christian teachers throughout history to make more mention of it. The meaning seems to be that they when Christ was absent they had difficulties and the going was very slow, but when Christ came on board they made good headway and got to were they were going much quicker.

"Note, when Christ is absent from his people, they go on but slowly, and with great difficulty; but when he joins himself to them, oh, how fast they steer their course! How soon are they at their journey's end." [Bunyan]

 

[timewerx]

No , that's not true.

It is merely one option,

One option with majority hits.

And another definition called "straightway" which means right away and also immediately.

And lastly, "forthwidth" - without delay, also immediately.

The information you posted contradicts your opinion...But proves my point perfectly, so perhaps I should say thank you!


..

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus teleported a boatload of disciples for a few miles across a lake.

John 6:16-21
16 When evening came, his disciples went down to the lake, 17 where they got into a boat and set off across the lake for Capernaum. By now it was dark, and Jesus had not yet joined them. 18 A strong wind was blowing and the waters grew rough. 19 When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus approaching the boat, walking on the water; and they were frightened. 20 But he said to them, “It is I; don’t be afraid.” 21 Then they were willing to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat reached the shore where they were heading

Nothing there about being teleported.
It's very likely that John is saying that they reached shore sooner than they expected. Maybe Jesus calmed the wind so it was easier to row. Or maybe, as with everything else, things are better/easier when you have Jesus with you.

There's no reason to read into the text that Jesus performed a "beam me up, Scotty" type miracle.

 

[timewerx]

Nothing there about being teleported.
It's very likely that John is saying that they reached shore sooner than they expected. Maybe Jesus calmed the wind so it was easier to row. Or maybe, as with everything else, things are better/easier when you have Jesus with you.

There's no reason to read into the text that Jesus performed a "beam me up, Scotty" type miracle.

I accept the argument of non-teleportation. The arguments provided so far is good enough.

But still a spectacular miracle took place there (other than walking on the water) with them reaching their destination at incredible speed.

 

[Strong in Him]

I accept the argument of non-teleportation. The arguments provided so far is good enough.

But still a spectacular miracle took place there (other than walking on the water) with them reaching their destination at incredible speed.

No, you're assuming that.
He might have used the word "immediately" to mean "in no time" - i.e before they knew it; all of which could have been that because Jesus was in the boat, everything seemed much easier and quicker.

I'm puzzled, though, why you're concentrating on something we don't know about, assuming a miracle and announcing it as such. You can't prove that the boat was propelled through the water at breakneck speed - and so what if it was?
Isn't the greater miracle that Jesus walked on water?

 

[timewerx]

You can't prove that the boat was propelled through the water at breakneck speed - and so what if it was?
Isn't the greater miracle that Jesus walked on water?

Distance per time = velocity. Basic physics.

The circumstances convey danger the disciples on the boat were in. They have to be at least around a few hundred yards to the shore.

They would have moved over a few hundred yards in a small fraction of a second or considerable less time that one second (immediately; at once)

The speed of sound covers a few hundred yards in one second. They would have to be at least moving at the speed of sound or beyond (supersonic speed). Totally unheard of in those times (pardon the pun!)

Would that be impossible to do with the Son of an All-Powerful God? The God who parted the seas and basically created the Universe?

 

[Strong in Him]

They would have moved over a few hundred yards in a small fraction of a second or considerable less time that one second (immediately; at once)

This is what I'm challenging.
How do you know they would have moved this distance in "a fraction of a second"?
How do you know that "immediately" is not relative, or a figure of speech?

None of us know that. The distance the boat still had to travel to get to shore and the amount of time it took is not in the text. The miracle is that Jesus walked on water - end of.

I can't help but think that the Lord sees some of the debates we have on here and thinks "what have they come up with now; where in the world do they get their ideas from?

 

[timewerx]

How do you know that "immediately" is not relative, or a figure of speech?

How can "immediately" become "not immediate"?

None of us know that. The distance the boat still had to travel to get to shore and the amount of time it took is not in the text.

You don't know the distance nor the time. Yet you seem pretty sure it's not immediate.

If the distance to the shore is only couple of feet, a great comedy took place and nobody noticed it nor realized how absurd and awkward the situation is.

I can't help but think that the Lord sees some of the debates we have on here and thinks "what have they come up with now; where in the world do they get their ideas from?

If a child thinks you're a superhero, even if it's not the truth, how would you feel?

Would Jesus be incapable of such feat?

Would such miracle be useless or even evil? Does it affect any of our creeds, dogmas, and theology?

Does the scriptures give 0% chance of it happening?

 

[Strong in Him]

You don't know the distance nor the time. Yet you seem pretty sure it's not immediate.

Neither do you - yet you seem pretty sure that "immediate" is literal, and not just a figure of speech.
Like if I say "it takes forever" - the only thing that's eternal is God, so clearly I don't mean that something never ends. I only mean it seems that way.

If a child thinks you're a superhero, even if it's not the truth, how would you feel?

In their eyes they probably mean it.
They know, realistically, you can't put on a cape and fly around the world; they mean that you are able to do lots of things at once, or make the impossible happen, or that you're always there for them. I'd feel honoured.

Would Jesus be incapable of such feat?

Of course not - but there's nothing to show that it happened.
The disciples are not recorded as saying "how is it that we are moving so fast through the water, Lord; this is as big a miracle as you walking on water."
If it was so utterly amazing, and another miracle, why did no one comment on it? The boat reached shore - who cares if it took a second or 5 minutes? Certainly, the Gospel writers didn't care enough to comment on it.

Would such miracle be useless or even evil?

Useless? Yes - IF it happened, what was the purpose and who did it benefit?
It's supposition.
Evil? Not exactly, but reading into the Bible text isn't helpful and, I'm sure, is what the devil would like up to do. Then we can waste time on useless arguments like this.

Does it affect any of our creeds, dogmas, and theology?

No - so why are you making a big thing about it?

 

[timewerx]

Useless? Yes - IF it happened, what was the purpose and who did it benefit?

Moving around at high speed useless?

I find it hard to believe

The disciples are not recorded as saying "how is it that we are moving so fast through the water, Lord; this is as big a miracle as you walking on water."

It was dark, they were scared, and eyes fixed on Jesus trying to get Him onboard, and their transit concluded immediately. It's not surprising they did not notice.

 

[~Zao~]

[QUOTE="Strong in Him, post: 73864679, member: 103116”].....
Useless? Yes - IF it happened, what was the purpose and who did it benefit?
It's supposition.
Evil? Not exactly, but reading into the Bible text isn't helpful and, I'm sure, is what the devil would like up to do. Then we can waste time on useless arguments like this.
....[/QUOTE]

I have heard of that and wondered about it. I just figured the difference was getting out and walking on water to get to shore, or get their instantly by allowing Jesus into the boat and arriving at the destination immediately. Spiritually that would be cool. But the disciples did do that and Jesus slept thru the storm. They asked Him if He didn’t care if they might die. Then He freaked them out with His power over nature. I just saw it as waiting justice still asleep.

 

[Kerensa]

You don't know the distance nor the time. Yet you seem pretty sure it's not immediate.

If the distance to the shore is only couple of feet, a great comedy took place and nobody noticed it nor realized how absurd and awkward the situation is.

I do think "immediately" means just what it says there — not even that the boat travelled a great distance in a tiny amount of time at some hyper-warp speed, but that as soon as Jesus was in the boat, they were just there, instantly, totally disregarding space and time. Jesus had already utterly defied the laws of physics by walking on the water, so why would it be any harder for him to overturn them further? I see that incident (it only occurs in John's account) as part of the whole walking-on-water "sign" or "miracle", not as an extra, so to speak.

Or even if we only take it symbolically, certainly the moment the disciples invited Jesus into the boat, they found they were right where they needed to be. There's got to be something in that.

 

[timewerx]

I do think "immediately" means just what it says there — not even that the boat travelled a great distance in a tiny amount of time at some hyper-warp speed, but that as soon as Jesus was in the boat, they were just there, instantly, totally disregarding space and time. Jesus had already utterly defied the laws of physics by walking on the water, so why would it be any harder for him to overturn them further? I see that incident (it only occurs in John's account) as part of the whole walking-on-water "sign" or "miracle", not as an extra, so to speak.

Or even if we only take it symbolically, certainly the moment the disciples invited Jesus into the boat, they found they were right where they needed to be. There's got to be something in that.

My thoughts as well. It happens to be dark and the disciples scared and confused, they didn't have time to notice or realize what just happened.

Ironically, I've been on a boat ride at night, no moon, no lights on the boat, no lights around. Nearly pitch black. We were trying to escape the private army of a corrupt politician and thank God, we got through unhurt. My point is, we can still see a bit of the surroundings and pretty much the shoreline and the trees that line shore while going at 20 mph with waves reaching 5 ft at sea.

The disciples too should realize if they were close to shore. In other books of the Gospels, the disciples were panicking so it's clear they weren't anywhere near the shore.

but that as soon as Jesus was in the boat, they were just there, instantly, totally disregarding space and time. Jesus had already utterly defied the laws of physics by walking on the water, so why would it be any harder for him to overturn them further?

LOL, true! If this happened conventionally (instead of supernaturally), the occupants of the boat and the boat would disintegrate due to the incredible G-force of accelerating to incredible speed in a fraction of a second!

But since Jesus even have mastery of space and time. It is entirely possible for Him to do it without endangering anyone!

 

[Strong in Him]

It was dark, they were scared, and eyes fixed on Jesus trying to get Him onboard, and their transit concluded immediately. It's not surprising they did not notice.

So if nobody noticed and the Gospel writers didn't pick up on it or explain it so that it was obvious that it was a REAL miracle; what's the point?

Even if I said "ok, I agree, it was a miracle" - what do we learn from it? How does it help our faith? What does it tell us about Jesus?
As far as I can see, nothing; I don't believe it was something the Holy Spirit wanted us to know about.

Unsubscribing.

 

[Kerensa]

LOL, true! If this happened conventionally (instead of supernaturally), the occupants of the boat and the boat would disintegrate due to the incredible G-force of accelerating to incredible speed in a fraction of a second!

Something like that, yeah!

Even if I said "ok, I agree, it was a miracle" - what do we learn from it? How does it help our faith? What does it tell us about Jesus?
As far as I can see, nothing...

Well, it tells me quite a lot about Jesus — that he really did, and does, have complete dominion over the laws of space and time and physics, which he had already just proved anyway by walking on the water. If he could do that, and all the other marvellous works he did, why couldn't he instantly transport himself and those with him to where they needed to be? I'm not quite sure why some here seem to find that concept uncomfortable — it's not inconsistent with the rest of what we know about Jesus from the Bible. It doesn't at all detract from or contradict the picture of him we already have, but enhances it. It certainly causes me to have even more faith in him and in his assurance that with God, nothing is impossible!!

I don't believe it was something the Holy Spirit wanted us to know about.

Then why is it in the Bible?

 

[timewerx]

So if nobody noticed and the Gospel writers didn't pick up on it or explain it so that it was obvious that it was a REAL miracle; what's the point?

Even if I said "ok, I agree, it was a miracle" - what do we learn from it? How does it help our faith? What does it tell us about Jesus?
As far as I can see, nothing; I don't believe it was something the Holy Spirit wanted us to know about.

Unsubscribing.

The boat transit miracle seem incredibly cool! Crazy, super cool!

And it involves Jesus this is why I love to talk about it.

There are mysteries of the Kingdom only made known to the disciples. In the Book of John it is made very clear many of these are not written in the Bible.

But then again, Jesus won't stop you from digging if you dare. Nothing is written in the Bible that you can't seek certain knowledge. The Word is God. And if we truly love God.