Noah's Ark Part 2: Marsupial Edition

[Bruce Leiter]

Marsupials live in Australasia and the Americas. They don't exist in the Middle East. Did some descendant of Noah collect all the marsupials, build a SECOND ark, and sail to Australia? Was there yet another marsupial-centric ark that travelled to the Americas?

No, we need to take the Word of God at its face value that God gathers all the animals two by two to go into the Ark. John Calvin's word for interpreting Scripture is correct. We must go as far as the Bible goes and then stop. Instead of speculating on the Bible's silence, we must take God's instructions from his history that he is a just God whose patience does run out, this time after 120 years when Noah built the Ark and preached to the people.

 

[Emmylouwho]

No, we need to take the Word of God at its face value that God gathers all the animals two by two to go into the Ark. John Calvin's word for interpreting Scripture is correct. We must go as far as the Bible goes and then stop. Instead of speculating on the Bible's silence, we must take God's instructions from his history that he is a just God whose patience does run out, this time after 120 years when Noah built the Ark and preached to the people.

I do take that at face value. So two kangaroos landed on Mount Ararat, and then somehow vanished from from that area, leaving no trace, and wound up in Australia. My question is... how?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

They don't exist in the Middle East.

No one knows for sure if they did not exist in the Middle East. We do not have much information on the types of animals only that they were all creatures. Most of us are still wrapping our heads around dinosaurs in the ark.

 

[prodromos]

Marsupials live in Australasia and the Americas. They don't exist in the Middle East. Did some descendant of Noah collect all the marsupials, build a SECOND ark, and sail to Australia? Was there yet another marsupial-centric ark that travelled to the Americas?

The animals were gathered to the ark by God. He would have managed their distribution as well.

 

[Christopher0121]

I think this might shed some light on the issue:

"Environmental change can drive hard-wired evolutionary changes in animal species in a matter of generations. A new study overturns the common assumption that evolution only occurs gradually over hundreds or thousands of years."

Environmental change triggers rapid evolution
Environmental change triggers rapid evolution

Those unique species in remote regions like Australia may be the result of rapid evolution brought about by environmental changes that triggered the activation of their hardwired dormant genetic traits. So, the kangaroo might not have become what we know today as a "kangaroo" until after the original species of its kind migrated or was bought to Australia.

 

[Hank77]

No I don't. It's too bad that some Christians don't accept Rabbi Moses Maimonides' advice that the first 11 chapters of Genesis are not to be taken as literal history --- they are folklore and borrowed myth to fill in the gap in the period before the Israelites' emergence as a self-aware cultural entity.

I think that there is a difference between folklore/myths compared to allegory. I think RamBam (Maimonides) said that the Genesis creation story was written metaphorically.

so the first 11 chapters are not inspired by the HOLY SPIRIT?

I'm not sure why you would think that the Holy Spirit wouldn't use allegory to teach truths.
When God said He owns on the cattle on 10,000 hills we know that isn't a literal statement, but a statement with a deeper meaning.

 

[His student]

Marsupials live in Australasia and the Americas. They don't exist in the Middle East. Did some descendant of Noah collect all the marsupials, build a SECOND ark, and sail to Australia? Was there yet another marsupial-centric ark that travelled to the Americas?

Don't forget a couple of special arks for the animals with prehensile tails that only exist in the Americas, Australia and New Guinnea.

Or perhaps they just caught a ride with the marsupials.

Or perhaps - as everyone knows from the scriptures - they were on the one true ark with Noah and certain animals got separated when the earth was divided during the days of Peleg and developed from there.

This isn't exactly rocket surgery.

Next are we going to surmise that there were special boats for people with red skin, black skin, and an epicanthic fold in the eyelid?

 

[Emmylouwho]

No one knows for sure if they did not exist in the Middle East. We do not have much information on the types of animals only that they were all creatures. Most of us are still wrapping our heads around dinosaurs in the ark.

What about dinosaurs in the ark? Huh?

 

[Emmylouwho]

Don't forget a couple of special arks for the animals with prehensile tails that only exist in the Americas, Australia and New Guinnea.

Or perhaps they just caught a ride with the marsupials.

Or perhaps - as everyone knows from the scriptures - they were on the one true ark with Noah and certain animals got separated when the earth was divided during the days of Peleg and developed from there.

This isn't exactly rocket surgery.

Next are we going to surmise that there were special boats for people with red skin, black skin, and an epicanthic fold in the eyelid?

How did kangaroos travel from Mount Ararat to Australia in the space of 6000 years without leaving a trace of themselves anywhere but in Australia? THINK

 

[Noscentia]

How did kangaroos travel from Mount Ararat to Australia in the space of 6000 years without leaving a trace of themselves anywhere but in Australia? THINK

It would certainly simplify things if there were an omnipotent, omniscient deity involved in all this Bible business somewhere. I suspect a being like that might just make seemingly improbable things perfectly possible. But I can't fathom where you might find one.

 

[Emmylouwho]

It would certainly simplify things if there were an omnipotent, omniscient deity involved in all this Bible business somewhere. I suspect a being like that might just make seemingly improbable things perfectly possible. But I can't fathom where you might find one.

Oh, cute and coy, you’re talking about god, lol...

So how did the kangaroos get from the Middle East to Australia with nary a trace?

 

[Noscentia]

Oh, cute and coy, you’re talking about god, lol...

So how did the kangaroos get from the Middle East to Australia with nary a trace?

You're left with a couple of possibilities. Either it just plain didn't happen as described in the Bible, or if it did (and I believe it did), we can't know how with any proper certainty. There are honestly no limits to the ways God could have seen to it, and we're not given the answer. You're free to speculate as myself and others have in this thread, or not to believe it, but you'll find scant physical evidence for either position.

Personally, my belief in the accuracy of God's word isn't predicated on whether I can explain every detail of every miracle.

 

[Emmylouwho]

You're left with a couple of possibilities. Either it just plain didn't happen as described in the Bible, or if it did (and I believe it did), we can't know how with any proper certainty. There are honestly no limits to the ways God could have seen to it, and we're not given the answer. You're free to speculate as myself and others have in this thread, or not to believe it, but you'll find scant physical evidence for either position.

Personally, my belief in the accuracy of God's word isn't predicated on whether I can explain every detail of every miracle.

BUT... you have a big intelligent brain that God gave you that must be wondering about those kangaroos... maybe they were gigantic kangaroos who could hop to Australia in no time at all... or maybe they were simpler, sea-faring marsupials who longed for adventures to unknown lands, and settled in Australia because they brought all the other marsupials with them and ran out of funding. Or maybe God transported them to Australia for reasons we cannot fathom. What we do know is that they left Eurasia without a trace.

 

[Noscentia]

BUT... you have a big intelligent brain that God gave you that must be wondering about those kangaroos... maybe they were gigantic kangaroos who could hop to Australia in no time at all... or maybe they were simpler, sea-faring marsupials who longed for adventures to unknown lands, and settled in Australia because they brought all the other marsupials with them and ran out of funding. Or maybe God transported them to Australia for reasons we cannot fathom. What we do know is that they left Eurasia without a trace.

And as I said, we can wonder till the kangaroos come home. I've certainly considered issues of this sort. You might even find an answer you're comfortable with. What I don't believe is that such things are cause for doubt.

 

[Robin Mauro]

Marsupials live in Australasia and the Americas. They don't exist in the Middle East. Did some descendant of Noah collect all the marsupials, build a SECOND ark, and sail to Australia? Was there yet another marsupial-centric ark that travelled to the Americas?

It may have been one land mass back then.

 

[Emmylouwho]

And as I said, we can wonder till the kangaroos come home. I've certainly considered issues of this sort. You might even find an answer you're comfortable with. What I don't believe is that such things are cause for doubt.

Cause for doubt about what?

 

[Emmylouwho]

And as I said, we can wonder till the kangaroos come home. I've certainly considered issues of this sort. You might even find an answer you're comfortable with. What I don't believe is that such things are cause for doubt.

Cause for doubt about what? That the Noah’s ark story is real? Or that your love for your neighbor is real?

 

[Noscentia]

Cause for doubt about what? That the Noah’s ark story is real? Or that your love for your neighbor is real?

I wouldn't consider it cause for doubt about either one of those things. Or anything, really.

 

[Emmylouwho]

I wouldn't consider it cause for doubt about either one of those things. Or anything, really.

So feel free to speculate.

 

[Brightmoon]

So you believe in evolution then?

No, I am a young earth creationist. I believe change can occur within a given kind. Microevolution, as it's been dubbed. I don't believe in macroevolution, which is the idea that one kind can become another kind.

. What you described is what scientists call macroevolution. For example Cats being lions and tigers and house cats is MACROevolution . Microevolution is just variation within a single species. Housecats ( Felis domesticus ) coming in different colors and fur patterns . Creationists use newspeak and change scientific definitions to suit their fantasies and to confuse laymen who don’t know any better