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Noah's Ark depicted in ancient Chinese pictograph
- Thread starter Zeena
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TeddyKGB
A dude playin' a dude disgused as another dude
- Jul 18, 2005
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Wow. I had never seen that before, yet it made TalkOrigins' list. Way to be thorough, TO folks.
In any case, aren't there some ethnic Chinese (or residents of China) about here? Shenren, maybe?
In any case, aren't there some ethnic Chinese (or residents of China) about here? Shenren, maybe?
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No, you’re interpreting it all wrong! It clearly says that eight boat people came from a far off land.
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thaumaturgy
Well-Known Member
The Bible describes a world wide flood catastrophe in which all human life with the exception of eight individuals on a floating vessel were destroyed. The Chinese symbol for boat is vessel, eight, and people.
Apparently the "eight" is not actually the radical for "8" though it looks like it. Supposedly the left-side radicals are only for phonetic consideration.
(Thank you talk origins!)
Why do you think the Chinese would preserve "Noah's flood" in a hanji character but nowhere in their collective myths, stories and histories? Were they afraid of the Noah Story since they knew it would help prove God's existence at some later time so the covered it up to avoid the wrath of the local Communist Party officials?
How deep does this conspiracy go?
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Even if the character can be interpreted as eight people in a boat, why connect it with Noah? Sounds like a reasonable size Chinese family to me, and it isn't as if the number eight is unusual in some way.
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Wow, creationists will really try anything.The Bible describes a world wide flood catastrophe in which all human life with the exception of eight individuals on a floating vessel were destroyed. The Chinese symbol for boat is vessel, eight, and people.
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Dracil
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As someone who is ethnically Chinese and actually knows Chinese and is Christian, this stuff is hogwash.
It's as representative of Noah's Ark as the $20 bill representing 9/11 (9+11=20)
It's as representative of Noah's Ark as the $20 bill representing 9/11 (9+11=20)
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LaLaRu
Active Member
Nice . . .The Bible describes a world wide flood catastrophe in which all human life with the exception of eight individuals on a floating vessel were destroyed. The Chinese symbol for boat is vessel, eight, and people.
. . . except that the Ancient Chinese pictographs look VERY DIFFERENT from modern pictographs.
Edit: Look here for examples.
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Noah's Ark remembered in China
In China, the same worldwide flood described in Genesis was remembered in the ancient Book of Documents (Shu Jing), written around 1000 B.C. The main character in the legend is Nuwa, who escaped a flood where "the heavens were broken, the nine states of China experienced continental shift and were split, and water flooded mountains and drowned all living things." 7 While the story is one of countless flood legends around the globe, the Chinese have even more clues contained in their ancient characters.
One of the better known is the Chinese symbol for ship (large boat), being the combination of symbols for boat, eight and mouth (or person to feed). In other words, a concept of a large boat originated with the famous eight-person boat, Noah's Ark. Following images from Voo K.S (TJ 2005).
The is a similarity between the asymmetrical shape of the Chinese boat symbol and the depictions from the Mediterranean around 2000 B.C. There is no "ramming bow" argument in this part of the world, so why is the Chinese boat so obviously high on one and and low on the other?
The following undated forms of the character for boat or ship show some more asymmetrical profiles. These bronzeware characters are "probably the side view of a boat with a roof" (from 15, fig 3).
It appears the third symbol became the default representation for "boat", which is not the familiar equal-ended Noah's Ark depiction. The most interesting symbol is the fourth one;
A side (profile) view of a pointed hull with protrusions on either end - perhaps one to catch the water and the other to catch the wind. Such as arrangement could create the self-steering effect on a drifting ship to keep it riding through waves instead of being trapped side-on (broaching to a beam sea). Although this may appear to be reading a lot into one small Chinese symbol, the anti-symmetry of bow and stern is otherwise mysterious in these early depictions.
A high prow and trailing stern already makes perfect sense for a drifting ship designed to handle wind generated seas, so the hint of asymmetrical bow and stern depicted in the earliest ships reinforces the case for a wind-steered Noah's Ark.
Source
In China, the same worldwide flood described in Genesis was remembered in the ancient Book of Documents (Shu Jing), written around 1000 B.C. The main character in the legend is Nuwa, who escaped a flood where "the heavens were broken, the nine states of China experienced continental shift and were split, and water flooded mountains and drowned all living things." 7 While the story is one of countless flood legends around the globe, the Chinese have even more clues contained in their ancient characters.
One of the better known is the Chinese symbol for ship (large boat), being the combination of symbols for boat, eight and mouth (or person to feed). In other words, a concept of a large boat originated with the famous eight-person boat, Noah's Ark. Following images from Voo K.S (TJ 2005).
The is a similarity between the asymmetrical shape of the Chinese boat symbol and the depictions from the Mediterranean around 2000 B.C. There is no "ramming bow" argument in this part of the world, so why is the Chinese boat so obviously high on one and and low on the other?
The following undated forms of the character for boat or ship show some more asymmetrical profiles. These bronzeware characters are "probably the side view of a boat with a roof" (from 15, fig 3).
It appears the third symbol became the default representation for "boat", which is not the familiar equal-ended Noah's Ark depiction. The most interesting symbol is the fourth one;
A side (profile) view of a pointed hull with protrusions on either end - perhaps one to catch the water and the other to catch the wind. Such as arrangement could create the self-steering effect on a drifting ship to keep it riding through waves instead of being trapped side-on (broaching to a beam sea). Although this may appear to be reading a lot into one small Chinese symbol, the anti-symmetry of bow and stern is otherwise mysterious in these early depictions.
A high prow and trailing stern already makes perfect sense for a drifting ship designed to handle wind generated seas, so the hint of asymmetrical bow and stern depicted in the earliest ships reinforces the case for a wind-steered Noah's Ark.
Source
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I didn't really bother reading most of this, but 8 people on a boat isn't going to cut it. You're missing like infinity animals.
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Sure, there were more than just eight lives on the boat, but nevertheless, eight men..
Hence the mouths
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It appears the third symbol became the default representation for "boat", which is not the familiar equal-ended Noah's Ark depiction. The most interesting symbol is the fourth one;
A side (profile) view of a pointed hull with protrusions on either end - perhaps one to catch the water and the other to catch the wind. Such as arrangement could create the self-steering effect on a drifting ship to keep it riding through waves instead of being trapped side-on (broaching to a beam sea). Although this may appear to be reading a lot into one small Chinese symbol, the anti-symmetry of bow and stern is otherwise mysterious in these early depictions.
A high prow and trailing stern already makes perfect sense for a drifting ship designed to handle wind generated seas, so the hint of asymmetrical bow and stern depicted in the earliest ships reinforces the case for a wind-steered Noah's Ark.
Source
Or more likely it is a symbolic representation of something that looked a bit like a Chinese Junk
These desperate attempts to make something of nothing are amusing but they do illustrate how YECs will twist things to try to get evidence for the long falsified hypothesis of a global flood.
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CACTUSJACKmankin
Scientist
Let's assume for one second that ancient China has a global flood story, so what? Dragons and gigantic hairy hominids have existed in cultures all over the world separated by thousands of miles and thousands of years. Does that mean these things exist too?
I'm not surprised many cultures have a flood story, almost every major ancient civilization lived on some body of water. Rivers flood regularly and what would these people have thought when the 500 year flood or that 1000 year flood hit and seemingly wiped everything out? Then everything comes back, it reeks of stuff like punishment-redemption and death-rebirth.
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Oh now, hold on now..
It's not just 'A' global flood story..
It's 'A' global flood story with eight men saved in a boat..
Lessons the odds a bit now dun it! HA!
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Except it's not actually a story, it's a creationist distortion of a Chinese character.
What he said was "Let's assume for one second that ancient China has a global flood story". He didn't assume it included eight people being saved on a boat.
However, we needn't assume. China does have a flood myth, where a great many people survive in trees an on mountains. In other words, it doesn't even come close to being global.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html#China
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Except that the Chinese have no such story.
Here are Chinese "flood legends" from Talk Origins.
The Supreme Sovereign ordered the water god Gong Gong to create a flood as punishment and warning for human misbehavior. Gong Gong extended the flood for 22 years, and people had to live in high mountain caves and in trees, fighting with wild animals for scarce resources. Unable to persuade the Supreme Sovereign to stop the flood, and told by an owl and a turkey about _Xirang_ or Growing Soil, the supernatural hero Gun stole Growing Soil from heaven to dam the waters. Before Gun was finished, however, the Supreme Sovereign sent the fire god Zhu Rong to execute him for his theft. The Growing Soil was taken back to heaven, and the floods continued. However, Gun's body didn't decay, and when it was cut apart three years later, his son Yu emerged in the form of a horned dragon. Gun's body also transformed into a dragon at that time and thenceforth lived quietly in the deeps. The Supreme Sovereign was fearful of Yu's power, so he cooperated and gave Yu the Growing Soil and the use of the dragon Ying. Yu led other gods to drive away Gong Gong, distributed the Growing Soil to remove most of the flood, and led the people to fashion rivers from Ying's tracks and thus channel the remaining floodwaters to the sea. [Walls, pp. 94-100]
The goddess Nu Kua fought and defeated the chief of a neighboring tribe, driving him up a mountain. The chief, chagrined at being defeated by a woman, beat his head against the Heavenly Bamboo with the aim of wreaking vengeance on his enemies and killing himself. He knocked it down, tearing a hole in the sky. Floods poured out, inundating the world and killing everyone but Nu Kua and her army; her divinity made her and her followers safe from it. Nu Kua patched the hole with a plaster made from stones of five different colors, and the floods ceased. [Werner, p. 225; Vitaliano, p. 163]
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