Noah - was he just surpressing his true self?

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Correct. You didn't address any of my points. You accused me of not reading the Bible.
According to Genesis 9:20–21, at some point after the flood, Noah planted a vineyard, produced wine, and became drunk. Not only did he become drunk, but he was naked inside his tent. What followed was the sin of Ham (and possibly Canaan). This is an uncomfortable episode in Noah’s life, but it serves as a reminder that even those saved by the grace of God are prone to sin (Genesis 8:21). It’s also a powerful warning about how just one careless decision can destroy the reputation of even the most godly man or woman. That’s especially true when it comes to drinking. Although the Bible says that wine is good for cheer (Psalm 104:15), it also warns that it can be dangerous, especially for those in positions of authority (Proverbs 31:4).

What the Bible doesn’t specify is “why” Noah became drunk. There are several possibilities, although none of them change the responsibilities of the people involved. Noah was responsible for his own actions, as were his sons. This includes Ham, who seems to have reacted with ridicule instead of compassion toward his inebriated father (Genesis 9:22).

One possibility is that Noah was haunted by his experiences during the flood and chose to over-consume wine and get drunk in order to ease his pain. Attempting to avoid negative feelings is one of the major reasons people abuse alcohol today. The strain of trying to rebuild a shattered world, on top of the horrific loss of human life, would doubtless have been a heavy burden to bear.

Another potential answer is that Noah’s drunkenness was inadvertent and caused by old age. That is, Noah might have become drunk accidentally. Just prior the flood, God had decreed a limitation to man’s lifespan (Genesis 6:3). This more-rapid aging is evident in the genealogies listed after the flood. It’s possible that Noah was feeling his age more than he knew and wasn’t able to hold as much wine as he once did. This is a key danger of alcohol—it takes judgment to know when to stop, but good judgment is exactly what alcohol tends to erode.

Another option is that Noah became drunk because he wasn’t experienced with large quantities of alcohol. Grapes existed before the flood, so man would have had the ability to press grapes before Noah entered the ark. But, according to the Bible, Noah was the first to plant a vineyard (Genesis 9:20). Common sense suggests that a cultivated vineyard will produce significantly more fruit, juice, and wine than wild vines. Noah may well have had access to more wine than he’d ever had before. Possibly, he carelessly consumed more than he had in the past, resulting in his drunken state.

Ultimately, we can’t say for sure exactly why Noah became drunk. Scripture often leaves out details that are ultimately irrelevant to our relationship to God. The exact sequence of events leading to Noah’s stumble isn’t given in the Scriptures. What we do see is enough for us to understand the history of Noah’s sons and to be warned about the power of what we put into our bodies.
 
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cloudyday2

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We hear lots of great stuff about Noah, and only one curse from him. I don't think that's enough evidence to say he was repressing his true self and that he was an outwardly obedient person who was seething with anger inside.

Also, there are some other factors involved. It is often translated that his son "uncovered the nakedness of" Noah, not just that he saw him nude. This same phrasing is used numerous times in the law to mean sexually shaming someone, either by sleeping with their partner or at the wrong time, etc. If his son did something other than just seeing him nude, which I do think is implied, Noah had every right to be ticked off.

Another point is that this is a literary plot device for a prophecy on why Shem (the Jews) will rule over Ham (the Caananites) later in the bible. By saying it's a plot device doesn't mean I think the story is only a myth.
I've read the same thing. Apparently ancient people were much more open about sex than modern people - maybe because they herded animals. (The children would see sex and childbirth in the animals.)
 
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Hammster

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Is anyone aware that people who get drunk reveal what is inside of them? They have no shame or inhibitions.

This fact seems to be completely lost on some of the readers.
I'm not sure why you think insulting others is the way to go. The fact is that you've made an assertion in the OP that you've not been able to support.
 
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cloudyday2

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Is anyone aware that people who get drunk reveal what is inside of them? They have no shame or inhibitions.

This fact seems to be completely lost on some of the readers.
The story is Genesis 9:20-25
Getting drunk and going to sleep without covering your body properly is not a sign of suppressed anger. Noah was angry to learn that his son had been disrespectful to him in some way while he was passed-out. IDK
 
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Moral Orel

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This includes Ham, who seems to have reacted with ridicule instead of compassion toward his inebriated father (Genesis 9:22).

Where did you read "ridicule" or any synonym therein? It just says "told". I see no reason to vilify Ham at all. It is a vague story written with little detail at all. There is no reason to read into it that Ham was mocking Noah in any way.
 
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radhead

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Where did you read "ridicule" or any synonym therein? It just says "told". I see no reason to vilify Ham at all. It is a vague story written with little detail at all. There is no reason to read into it that Ham was mocking Noah in any way.

This is my point as well. The child who is obedient and favored by the parent is not necessarily going to have a better life.

I can't take the story of the flood literally because Peter said that it represented baptism. ("8" were saved.) I don't think anyone fully understands the intent of the original story. Maybe there is a sect of Judaism that does. But everything in Genesis up to this point is so weird and symbolic.
 
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Where did you read "ridicule" or any synonym therein? It just says "told". I see no reason to vilify Ham at all. It is a vague story written with little detail at all. There is no reason to read into it that Ham was mocking Noah in any way.
Why did Noah curse Canaan when it was Ham who saw him naked? Why was Noah so angry that Ham saw him naked? Some propose that Ham and/or Canaan actually did something to Noah in addition to seeing him naked. The passage mentions that Noah was angry when he found out “what his youngest son had done to him.” Homosexuality, rape, and humiliation are frequently mentioned as possibilities. One rabbinic teaching is that Ham or Canaan castrated his father. However, the text nowhere states what Ham did to Noah. Any theory of what occurred is speculation.

Another view arises out of comparison with Leviticus 20:11, "The man who lies with his father's wife has uncovered his father's nakedness..." With Leviticus 20:11 in mind, some propose that Ham had sex with Noah's wife, and that was what brought the curse from Noah. However, this figurative understanding of "uncovering nakedness" fails to account for the fact that Shem and Japheth walked into the room backward and covered Noah with a garment. This does not make any sense if "uncovering nakedness" means "having sex with Noah's wife." It definitely seems that Noah was lying naked—his nakedness uncovered.

Whatever took place between Ham and Noah, why did Noah curse Ham’s son Canaan, when Canaan is nowhere mentioned as having done anything? The Bible does not specifically answer this question. Ham was most likely Noah’s middle son, based on the fact that Ham is always listed second when the sons are named. However, Canaan was probably Ham’s youngest son (Genesis 10:6). The “youngest child” mentioned in Genesis 9:24 seems to be a reference to Ham, but another option is that Noah refers to Canaan (his youngest grandson) as his “son.” Calling a grandson a “son” is not uncommon in Scripture. This would mean that Canaan was somehow involved in the sordid incident, and that is why Noah specifically mentions him in the curse. Ham saw his father’s condition and did nothing about it, except to tell his brothers. Reading between the lines, we assume that Ham’s son did more than see but participated somehow in his grandfather’s degradation.
 
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cloudyday2

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Why did Noah curse Canaan when it was Ham who saw him naked? Ham’s son did more than see but participated somehow in his grandfather’s degradation.
The book "From Gods to God" explained those things.
http://www.jewishbookcouncil.org/book/from-gods-to-god-shinan-zakovitch

I don't have the book handy, but I believe Noah cursed the grandson Canaan instead of Ham, because the children were considered to be property of the parents. If Noah had cursed Ham, then he would have been cursing his own property. Therefore Noah cursed Ham's son, because that was Ham's property. The authors also claimed that originally the story had Ham doing something sexual to his father.
 
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radhead

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The book "From Gods to God" explained those things.
http://www.jewishbookcouncil.org/book/from-gods-to-god-shinan-zakovitch

I don't have the book handy, but I believe Noah cursed the grandson Canaan instead of Ham, because the children were considered to be property of the parents. If Noah had cursed Ham, then he would have been cursing his own property. Therefore Noah cursed Ham's son, because that was Ham's property. The authors also claimed that originally the story had Ham doing something sexual to his father.

That sounds like a parent cursing a child for not conforming and being the Yes Man who they want all their children to be. So, their psychological treatment of the rebellious child is intended to curse their own grandchild as a way of "getting even."

Normal human behavior.
 
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Hammster

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I can't accept the teaching of ANY church if no one can even agree on what their book says. I can't take any church seriously.
I have no intention of trying to convince or covert you. That is outside my realm of responsibility. However, comments like these are not helpful. You started this OP with nothing more than an opinion, and have yet to support your opinion. Instead, you have decided to indict Christians because we haven't addressed your unsubstantiated point. That comes across as disingenuous. I would suggest that you check out the types of threads cloudyday and Nihilist start. Theirs are generally well thought out and respectful. You would do well to do the same.
 
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radhead

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I have no intention of trying to convince or covert you. That is outside my realm of responsibility. However, comments like these are not helpful. You started this OP with nothing more than an opinion, and have yet to support your opinion. Instead, you have decided to indict Christians because we haven't addressed your unsubstantiated point. That comes across as disingenuous. I would suggest that you check out the types of threads cloudyday and Nihilist start. Theirs are generally well thought out and respectful. You would do well to do the same.

I don't indict people. I criticize teachings. Most people just attend their church out of tradition. And others just make the best choice that they can. Just because the church is not perfect, that does not reflect on the members.

Some preachers will admit that they don't understand the meaning of a Bible story. I respect that more.
 
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Hammster

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I don't indict people. I criticize teachings. Most people just attend their church out of tradition. And others just make the best choice that they can. Just because the church is not perfect, that does not reflect on the members.

Some preachers will admit that they don't understand the meaning of a Bible story. I respect that more.
That may may all be true. But it's also true that you started a thread that has an unsupported premise. You've been given opportunities to support it. Yet you've not done so.
 
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Hammster

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What are you trying to convince me of? Because I could say the same to you, that you haven't supported your ideas.
I said I have no intention of trying to convert you.
 
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LaSorcia

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I can't accept the teaching of ANY church if no one can even agree on what their book says. I can't take any church seriously.

Better not study art or poetry lol!
 
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