Noah and those pesky koala bears...

Originally posted by Greeter
The heading of this thread is neat but I have no idea what it refers to. Is there a perceived problem with having koala bears and the flood?[/B]

The marsupial population of Australia contains animal families and species found nowhere else on earth - not even in fossil form. We are to suppose that each species of marsupial managed to get from Mt. Ararat to Australia, but couldn't find its way to any other part of the world? Even including those regions located between Turkey and Australia? Despite the fact that most marsupial species are out-gunned when they are forced to compete with non-marsupial (forgot the term here) mammals (hence the extinction of so many marsupial species after the introduction of European mammals), we are to suppose that wombats and wallabies, bandicoots and koalas, kept ahead of lions-tigers-'n-bears all the way to Indonesia, and then find a mystery land bridge all the way to Australia. And, you expect us to believe the superior non-marsupial predators couldn't manage the same? As if this were not mind-boggling enough, after all this implausible world travel, and after all the dust had settled, it turns out that the types of marsupials that made it to Australia just happened to form an ensemble able to fill all the ecological niches available!

If this isn't evidence against the idea that a dormant volcano in Asia Minor is the center from which all the animal species of the world have dispersed, what about the problem of cave-dwelling species of animals? Many of these creatures are blind, and have been for thousands of years. We can only imagine the trouble they had finding their ways to caves in Patagonia, Florida, New Zealand, and Sardinia. While we're in the dark, what about the fact that nearly all separate cave systems in the world have unique faunas - practically every cave and sink-hole system in Florida has its own unique species of camel crickets, for example - it is hard to understand how this can be explained from a flood viewpoint.

And what of the Aztecs, Myans, and Incans? Sophisticated American continent civilizations with no idea of Yahweh. These cultures rose to their height very soon (almost immediately) after the time of the supposed flood. The descendants of Noah had to work extremely fast to get all the way to the Americas and build these civilizations (and loose their ship-building skills in the process). However, there is no mention of Yahweh's flood in their history and religion. How could this be? Wouldn’t the flood be a very recent event for them? Wouldn’t they be worshiping Noah’s God for allowing them to live? These cultures have completely different creation stories than Noah’s. (Also, these cultures were flourishing during the supposed time of the tower of babble, so don’t go there.)
 
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Ben johnson

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People will be lining up in pairs to refute your arguments. Then they'll sail you down the river.
Well, they can try, but I'm pretty wiry and strong despite my appearances...

Sometimes we can get too caught up in "explaining things to our understanding". What does the term, "supernatural", mean? It means "that which is beyond our senses". Can you draw four mutually perpendicular lines? It can be done. Maybe, when we UNDERSTAND the nature of God and of Heaven & Hell, there will BE no more "supernatural". Maybe we'll understand where "black holes" go, when they reach critical mass and their space-warp becomes a complete 4-dimensional sphere (thus they drop out of the known Universe, and no longer affect objects in the vecinity).

This is not an "intellectual dodge" (nor Chevy nor Chryselor), but simply "coming to terms with our Universe". The story implies that God brought two of every animal (the "clean" ones paired sevenfold). If He is capable of bringing the animals, He is also capable of dispersing them, too. As to "drinking water", I would imagine the Ark had gutters, which drained overboard AND into "rain-barrels". (A trick that the Zeppelins earlier in this century exploited...) So for forty days they had FRESH RENEWING WATER...

I was impressed by a statement by James Burke (not to be confused with 18th Century British Statesman Edmond Burke, "All that evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing..."), who, in the PBS program, "The Day The Universe Changed", stated: "Science is a man in a dark room with a flashlight. He assumes that there is something IN that room to be discovered, that it is of a nature that the flashlight will REVEAL it, and that he knows WHERE to AIM the flashlight. Any ONE of which may be false"...

OH, and DOWN a river without a paddle IS the problem. When people say, "Up a creek without a paddle", I just think, "Well, HEY, why can't they FLOAT DOWN?" And I suppose, "up a TREE without a paddle is even WORSE..."
Coral can only survive in shallow salt water...
Can coral survive in medium-depth-water for a month or two? Again, the story is based on a "hyper-dimensional-being", fully capable of moving a few molecules around (which, arguably, is how life began---arranging those molecules in a precise order---and the contention is, that this very order, is far too precise and complex to have occurred randomly...)

(Did I mention that I have a degree in engineering??? All around me, I see design and intelligent thought ---Rom1:20)

:)
PS: The "PUN" may be the LOWEST form of humor, but it's still a form... ;)
 
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elephanticity

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Originally posted by Ben johnson
So for forty days they had FRESH RENEWING WATER...


Can coral survive in medium-depth-water for a month or two? Again, the story is based on a "hyper-dimensional-being", fully capable of moving a few molecules around (which, arguably, is how life began---arranging those molecules in a precise order---and the contention is, that this very order, is far too precise and complex to have occurred randomly...)

yes, fresh water for forty days....and for the rest of the trip? You do realize it was a year, right? If they had to store water for the whole trip, it would cut down on the space available for food or animals. A year's worth of food and water for the elephants alone would take substantial space.

And the coral wasn't under medium water for a month, it was under water deep enough to cover the entire earth, plus 15 cubits, the pressure alone would have killed the coral, not counting the torrents of the deluge that supposedly eroded the grand canyon and splashed clams to the tops of mountains....

The argument 'God Could Have' begs the question, "Why Did He?" If he was dead set on a flood, and had to miraculously gather animals, and then return them, and supply the various food supplies, and protect fresh and salt water species, and make sure the dinosaurs didn't settle at the same depth as the mastodons, and myriad other miracles to make the flood story work...why didn't he just strike down 'all the wicked people' that peopled the earth? Foom, swoop and all done.
 
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Originally posted by elephanticity
he argument 'God Could Have' begs the question, "Why Did He?" If he was dead set on a flood, and had to miraculously gather animals, and then return them, and supply the various food supplies, and protect fresh and salt water species, and make sure the dinosaurs didn't settle at the same depth as the mastodons, and myriad other miracles to make the flood story work...why didn't he just strike down 'all the wicked people' that peopled the earth? Foom, swoop and all done. [/B]

Because... [GLOW=orangered]The Bible[/GLOW] says he flooded the world, that's why.

sheesh. :rolleyes:
 
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Ben johnson

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Placental mammals...
Marsupials have placentas, and are mammals, bearing milk, etc...

As the daddy kangaroo said one day to the momma: "Honey, you just have to cut the apron strings for him be become a healthy adult. You've him in your pocket for too long!" ;)
yes, fresh water for forty days....and for the rest of the trip? You do realize it was a year, right?
Is it reasonable to assume that it didn't ever rain again, for the whole year? Maybe a shower here and there? Just because it didn't MENTION it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. I haven't given much thought before to where the "coral reefs" were, but reefs are only living for a very narrow depth---below that are just calcified structures. So, if they WERE killed, it wouldn't take very long to repopulate them again.

Why did God choose this method? I don't know all of the answers. Why did He cast satan to earth, where he could TEMPT Adam & Eve, in the first place? More questions than answers. I am a Human, my mind is limited---If I don't understand everything, I'm OK with that...

"And the giraffes stood at the door, and Noah didst spake: 'Go forth and multiply!'
And the elephants stood at the door, and Noah didst spake: 'Go forth and multiply!'
And behold, a pair of serpents paused at the door. Spake Noah, 'Go forth and multiply!'
But the serpents did frown (and THAT was not a pretty sight), and one of them didst spake: 'But, NOAH, we're ADDERS! How then do we MULTIPLY?!?!"
And Noah didst frown and stroke his befuzzled chin (and a mighty beard it had become), and said:

'Use LOGS!'"

(With humble apologies to non-mathematical-people...)

;)
 
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AV1611VET

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This is for those who believe in a literal interpretation of genesis. Its pretty simple, i'd just like an explanation of how you fit koala bears and marsupials in general into a literal interpretation of the flood story.
I don't.

I don't feel a need to micromanage the guest list for Noah's Ark.

Do you?

Evolutionists like to act like we were there; and we weren't.
 
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AV1611VET

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Riiight...and birds are dinosaurs...LOL.
Behold the [avian] terrible lizard:

images
 
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AV1611VET

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birds evolved from dinosaurs. Is that hard to understand?
:eek: -- I said "Behold the [avian] terrible lizard" -- didn't I?

Does that sound to you like I didn't understand?
LOL he cant argue with people who are currently on this board so he argues with people who are long gone.
I was arguing?
 
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This from the guy who believes in giants, unicorns, 4-legged grasshoppers, "fowled" bats (whatever that is) and satyrs.
Yup.

And I take it you don't believe the story of David and Goliath?

Or was Goliath just an archetype of someone whose problems are too big for him?
 
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Nabobalis

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Yup.

And I take it you don't believe the story of David and Goliath?

Or was Goliath just an archetype of someone whose problems are too big for him?

Well there are no giants, there are tall people though.

Goliath’s height

The oldest manuscripts - 4QSam(a), the Dead Sea Scrolls text of Samuel), the first-century A.D. historian Josephus and the fourth century A.D. Septuagint manuscripts - all give the height of Goliath as “four cubits and a span”, about six and a half feet tall.[4] Later manuscripts increase his height to “six cubits and a span,” which would make him over nine feet tall.[5] Hebrew uses letters to denote numbers, and it is possible that the original letter dalet, or "four", became confused for vav, "six", between the earliest manuscripts and the later ones.


So 6 foot tall isn't too bad but 9 foot, that is pushing it.
 
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MorkandMindy

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Not a fair question. If I were God, I wouldn't kill everyone.

really now? even if they were killing babies and women?

Joshua 6:21
And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

27So the LORD was with Joshua; and his fame was noised throughout all the country.
 
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MoonLancer

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:eek: -- I said "Behold the [avian] terrible lizard" -- didn't I?
indeed you did


Does that sound to you like I didn't understand?

I was arguing?
You called a bird a terrible lizard. It truly does sound like you dont understand
 
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