No trust in the church singles population either

[ThisIsMe123]

I saw this post from a pastor in his church, discussing an obvious problem that he's contending with. That one gender is not trusting the other in church, and the women have segregated themselves from the men there. That women in their church have already assumed the men there are lairs, cheaters, and objectifying them and have other odd ideas about them...and this attitude is keeping men from dating them. And at this point, their co-ed Bible studies and the young adults are only women now as a result.

He tried to have sermon discussing this issue, and all he gets from them is that "he's celibate and has never date" (the pastor hasn't). So that he has no credibility to discuss this issue.

He said he spoke with the men on this topic, and they tell him that they don't feel welcomed or safe there. He spoke with other team leads at the church, and it was discussed that some of the problem members should simply be removed from the church.

After reading this, I was really sad to hear this. Someone suggested the internet is giving these ladies these ideas about men, and thus...avoid the men even in their congregation.

Some mentioned that the Internet may have influenced their attitudes.

I have had women state that in their church, even if there are single men there...that they can't picture themselves dating any of them. They have this "brother/sister" mentality, and they keep it that way. It just would feel like they'd be dating a sibling if they ever attempted it.

So there's that. For whatever reason they may not find them attractive enough...and seek outside church among their secular peers.

 

[TheLastGeek]

Those goshdarn wimmenz. They's the debil.

 

[High Fidelity]

I do think that perceptions of the other gender are bound to be heavily influenced by external and secular standards, as well as self-image and what men and women are expected to be. That in itself is an issue to address.

I would also say though that just because there are available men and women at church doesn’t mean they have to show or reciprocate interest.

There’s more to consider than purely spiritual needs, like attraction, because without that then there will likely be very obvious hurdles in the marriage creating a host of issues, to name just one aspect these single men and women may be looking at.

 

[DragonFox91]

There’s genuine churches out there with genuine people there. How many have you tried? 1 or 2? For 2 months or 3?

 

[exitstageright]

I do think that perceptions of the other gender are bound to be heavily influenced by external and secular standards, as well as self-image and what men and women are expected to be. That in itself is an issue to address.

I would also say though that just because there are available men and women at church doesn’t mean they have to show or reciprocate interest.

There’s more to consider than purely spiritual needs, like attraction, because without that then there will likely be very obvious hurdles in the marriage creating a host of issues, to name just one aspect these single men and women may be looking at.

Generally,I have observed with the generation under 40,the women only find the single men desirable only if the men have only three things. A six foot height. A six figure income. and,six pack abs. But,the average height of the average American Male is 5 feet,10 inches.

 

[TheLastGeek]

Generally,I have observed with the generation under 40,the women only find the single men desirable only if the men have only three things. A six foot height. A six figure income. And,six foot abs. But,the average height of the average American Male is 5 feet,10 inches.

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head. ALL women are shallow, lustful gold-diggers, even in the church! It's a hopeless situation. We can't be redeemed. We're too busy enjoying the Jezebel spirit OOZING from our pores! Better give up while you still can and find an order of monks to join.

 

[LoveDivine]

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head. ALL women are shallow, lustful gold-diggers, even in the church! It's a hopeless situation. We can't be redeemed. We're too busy enjoying the Jezebel spirit OOZING from our pores! Better give up while you still can and find an order of monks to join.

You make me laugh. I'm sure this particular church mentioned by the OP has some serious issues, but I don't think you can take this particularly weird situation and apply it to all churches. There can be so many reasons why a single man or woman doesn't find anyone else in their church to be appealing romantically. It's not a guarantee that you will be a good match for someone who attends your church. It would be nice if it was that simple.

Also, Christian men are just as picky. I've met so many who were very focused on looks and were actually quite rude about it. It goes both ways.

 

[Tranquil Bondservant]

The problems which lie within the OP are spiritual in nature and are not to do with the problems of the specific genders in question. In all places, whether male or female, both genders are called into a place of meekness under the spiritual overseer of the congregation whom God has placed over us in a place of spiritual shepherding, care & leadership. If their desire is to rebel against or reject the seemingly Biblical corrections which have been offered by the Pastor then the problem lies with the hearts of those involved and not with the gender. But as a rule, women who are not interested in the men within the Church are under no obligation to treat them in a romantic way and the same goes for the men with women. Nobody is owed romance or a relationship just from mere existence, love itself is not obliged but is entered into consensually. If God, who is love, does not oblige anyone to love him of necessity, then why would it be any different for our relationship with man or woman? If the women of your Church can only see the other men of your Church as brothers, then please tell me truly what is wrong with that?

Men on average value the appearance of a woman much more than women value the appearance of a man. And men on average are far more likely to treat women as a kind of ornament, possession or object which they can obtain and which increases their life. If you as somebody who continually posts about the problems of women are to hold women to account for the way in which they view men, then perhaps you should search your own soul and make sure you are not guilty of the very things which you consistently post against. To make sure that you have not let a root of bitterness spring up in your life which defiles you and many others who participate in this.

Regarding some of the other posts in this thread; at the end of the day the majority of us who are on this sub-forum are open to and desiring a partner whom we can love for the rest of our lives. If your focus is on the opposing gender's appearance, success or material possessions above that of their love and desire for God then you have prioritised wrongly. By no means is it wrong to like or value these things to some extent, but at the foremost of everyone's mind should be the heart of the person in Christ. Every Christian should be desiring someone who loves God as much as you or more; by far this is the most important thing and all other worldly considerations while important, are ultimately separated by an immeasurable chasm when compared to the spiritual considerations. The rich man who was reserved in Hades for the judgement was not concerned with any of the aforementioned perishing material things (wealth, possessions, appearance & etc), he wanted his family to be warned spiritually and for the sake of their very existence.

If you are to be a man in Christ and to have your heart focused on Him, then you should be considering and desiring the heart of a woman who is devoted to God above all other attributes. As a man your responsiblity as a partner will be to love your wife as Christ loved the Church and you have to be willing to dispense with all the things which prevent you from doing so. You have to be willing to die for them regardless of the state of their existence, willing to be a living sacrifice so that they would be presented to Christ without spot or wrinkle; to lift them up to The Lord with all of your heart and strength. This kind of love transcends anything which can be seen, as the love which is based on that which is eternal can endure the loss of all of that which is material. We are promised persecutions in this life and if we are to commit ourselves to be with another soul for the rest of our days, then we need to value the things which can be taken away less than that of that which will endure into eternity.

I do not say any of this lightly, I am speaking from experience and I know these things to be true as I have had the pleasure of experiencing them. It is possible to love somebody for who they are above what they are; above what they currently or will look like, above what they currently materially have or in the future will (or won't) have. It is possible to love somebody for their heart in Christ and to know with certainty in your heart that you will continue to love them no matter what happens in life; whether persecutions, sickness, grief, ageing, prosperity, abundance and etc. Seek to have your love for and compatibility with a partner rooted in Christ and all of these worldly concerns will fade away. For a relationship which is founded on and for God cannot be shaken by anything of this world; if He is the beating heart and oxygen of a relationship then He will sustain it no matter the circumstances which are faced.

Love Christ; all else is decay. God bless anyone who is reading this and may the peace and love of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you .

 

[exitstageright]

You make me laugh. I'm sure this particular church mentioned by the OP has some serious issues, but I don't think you can take this particularly weird situation and apply it to all churches. There can be so many reasons why a single man or woman doesn't find anyone else in their church to be appealing romantically. It's not a guarantee that you will be a good match for someone who attends your church. It would be nice if it was that simple.

Also, Christian men are just as picky. I've met so many who were very focused on looks and were actually quite rude about it. It goes both ways.

A person,if one does not have an hypothyroid condition, can control one's weight. But, no one control one's height. Most men have weight standards, while most women have height standards. Take myself, for example, I am 5 feet, nine inches. I once overheard my next door neighbor tell someone that I am a nice man. Her acquaintance said,"Yeah, but he's short." Needless to say that was a bad start to my day.
Now,I once weighed 260 pounds. In 2013,my New Years Resolution was to stop eating at McDonald's. Well, by keeping that resolution and with Ballroom Dancing, I am now weigh 198 pounds! Dancing is exercise with music.
Therefore, to improve myself, I concentrated on what I can help. And not on what I cannot help.

 

[exitstageright]

The problems which lie within the OP are spiritual in nature and are not to do with the problems of the specific genders in question. In all places, whether male or female, both genders are called into a place of meekness under the spiritual overseer of the congregation whom God has placed over us in a place of spiritual shepherding, care & leadership. If their desire is to rebel against or reject the seemingly Biblical corrections which have been offered by the Pastor then the problem lies with the hearts of those involved and not with the gender. But as a rule, women who are not interested in the men within the Church are under no obligation to treat them in a romantic way and the same goes for the men with women. Nobody is owed romance or a relationship just from mere existence, love itself is not obliged but is entered into consensually. If God, who is love, does not oblige anyone to love him of necessity, then why would it be any different for our relationship with man or woman? If the women of your Church can only see the other men of your Church as brothers, then please tell me truly what is wrong with that?

Men on average value the appearance of a woman much more than women value the appearance of a man. And men on average are far more likely to treat women as a kind of ornament, possession or object which they can obtain and which increases their life. If you as somebody who continually posts about the problems of women are to hold women to account for the way in which they view men, then perhaps you should search your own soul and make sure you are not guilty of the very things which you consistently post against. To make sure that you have not let a root of bitterness spring up in your life which defiles you and many others who participate in this.

Regarding some of the other posts in this thread; at the end of the day the majority of us who are on this sub-forum are open to and desiring a partner whom we can love for the rest of our lives. If your focus is on the opposing gender's appearance, success or material possessions above that of their love and desire for God then you have prioritised wrongly. By no means is it wrong to like or value these things to some extent, but at the foremost of everyone's mind should be the heart of the person in Christ. Every Christian should be desiring someone who loves God as much as you or more; by far this is the most important thing and all other worldly considerations while important, are ultimately separated by an immeasurable chasm when compared to the spiritual considerations. The rich man who was reserved in Hades for the judgement was not concerned with any of the aforementioned perishing material things (wealth, possessions, appearance & etc), he wanted his family to be warned spiritually and for the sake of their very existence.

If you are to be a man in Christ and to have your heart focused on Him, then you should be considering and desiring the heart of a woman who is devoted to God above all other attributes. As a man your responsiblity as a partner will be to love your wife as Christ loved the Church and you have to be willing to dispense with all the things which prevent you from doing so. You have to be willing to die for them regardless of the state of their existence, willing to be a living sacrifice so that they would be presented to Christ without spot or wrinkle; to lift them up to The Lord with all of your heart and strength. This kind of love transcends anything which can be seen, as the love which is based on that which is eternal can endure the loss of all of that which is material. We are promised persecutions in this life and if we are to commit ourselves to be with another soul for the rest of our days, then we need to value the things which can be taken away less than that of that which will endure into eternity.

I do not say any of this lightly, I am speaking from experience and I know these things to be true as I have had the pleasure of experiencing them. It is possible to love somebody for who they are above what they are; above what they currently or will look like, above what they currently materially have or in the future will (or won't) have. It is possible to love somebody for their heart in Christ and to know with certainty in your heart that you will continue to love them no matter what happens in life; whether persecutions, sickness, grief, ageing, prosperity, abundance and etc. Seek to have your love for and compatibility with a partner rooted in Christ and all of these worldly concerns will fade away. For a relationship which is founded on and for God cannot be shaken by anything of this world; if He is the beating heart and oxygen of a relationship then He will sustain it no matter the circumstances which are faced.

Love Christ; all else is decay. God bless anyone who is reading this and may the peace and love of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you .

What you said is true. But I have heard Pastors and Singles' Pastors tell us single men the same thing. Yet,I have never seen a Pastor and/or a Singles' Pastor have a physically unattractive wife. Apparently, some men do not practice what they preach!

 

[exitstageright]

Firstly, good for you for losing all that weight. It's tough to be disciplined and to stick to fitness goals. I don't disagree that height and weight standards are not entirely equivalent. Excess weight can also have health concerns / lifestyle concerns attached to it. It's not just about physical appearance.

I was simply making the point that men have physical preferences for women too. The preferences aren't just weight standards. If we are honest, most men like a pretty face haha. I haven't heard a man ever say otherwise. There's nothing wrong with that either. You can't really blame someone for being more attracted to a beautiful person.

It's never going to be nice for the person who is being rejected/ passed over by the opposite gender for some aspect of their appearance (whether they can improve that part of their appearance or not ). It would be nice if none of us cared about appearance when considering the opposite gender for relationships, but that's just not reality. It's impossible to not have preferences. We all instinctively have them. It's only wrong if we focus solely on the physical attraction or prioritize that over a spiritual connection. That's the mistake. That is when the preferences can be considered shallow.

I think the important thing for single Christians to focus on is the heart of the person first. Getting to know someone on a fellowship level in church can actually help establish physical attraction later on. Sometimes a person can really become more attractive to another person the more they get to know them. Someone who was initially not attracted to you might find themselves rethinking that after getting to know you on a deeper level. You can only make that happen though if you are genuinely engaging with others at church for the purpose of friendship/ fellowship. One thing being overlooked in this discussion about women in church is that women can tell if a man is hitting on them or just making conversation to lead up to asking them out. That is quite different from making conversation for fellowship. It's really fellowship that should be happening in church. Many guys who complain about women being unfriendly in church or stuck up aren't being fair. They weren't trying to fellowship; they were seeking a date. It's okay to date someone from church and to ask out members, but that's not the purpose of church. So, it's also okay for someone who isn't interested in dating and wants to focus on the spiritual aspects of the meeting to shut down or avoid those types of interactions. That's not being unfriendly or shallow.

Women can read men, but us men have a hard time reading women. That is not fair. But life is not fair either. That is one of the mysteries of the universe. I may not like it. But, I just have to accept and to live with it.

 

[timewerx]

There’s genuine churches out there with genuine people there. How many have you tried? 1 or 2? For 2 months or 3?

Yeah, some places are way meaner than the others, especially places with high cost of living.

I think the OP should move to another state.

 

[SarahsKnight]

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head. ALL women are shallow, lustful gold-diggers, even in the church! It's a hopeless situation. We can't be redeemed. We're too busy enjoying the Jezebel spirit OOZING from our pores! Better give up while you still can and find an order of monks to join.

I like your brand of sarcasm, Miss Geek.

 

[TheLastGeek]

I like your brand of sarcasm, Miss Geek.

I don't like communicating that way, but good Lord, I am sick of the "wimmenz are the problem with everything" threads in this darn forum.

 

[Citanul]

I would also say though that just because there are available men and women at church doesn’t mean they have to show or reciprocate interest.

There’s more to consider than purely spiritual needs, like attraction, because without that then there will likely be very obvious hurdles in the marriage creating a host of issues, to name just one aspect these single men and women may be looking at.

Something which I seem to be coming across more and more lately (and it's probably been around for a while but it just didn't seem as prevalent to me for whatever reason) is the notion that people should be dating within the church they attend. It's often accompanied by the complainant thinking there's something wrong with someone who doesn't do that, sometimes even to the extent of being offended by that decision.

Obviously, church is a very good place to meet people who share your values, so there's nothing wrong with thinking of a fellow attendee as a potential partner, but you can't expect someone to be interested in dating you just because the two of you happen to attend the same church. It reeks of entitlement to think that someone's making a mistake by not dating within their church's congregation.

 

[TheLastGeek]

Something which I seem to be coming across more and more lately (and it's probably been around for a while but it just didn't seem as prevalent to me for whatever reason) is the notion that people should be dating within the church they attend. It's often accompanied by the complainant thinking there's something wrong with someone who doesn't do that, sometimes even to the extent of being offended by that decision.

Obviously, church is a very good place to meet people who share your values, so there's nothing wrong with thinking of a fellow attendee as a potential partner, but you can't expect someone to be interested in dating you just because the two of you happen to attend the same church. It reeks of entitlement to think that someone's making a mistake by not dating within their church's congregation.

So true! Just because we may share some denominational similarities doesn't mean we'll share hobbies or interests, share life goals, or have compatible personalities.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Firstly, good for you for losing all that weight. It's tough to be disciplined and to stick to fitness goals. I don't disagree that height and weight standards are not entirely equivalent. Excess weight can also have health concerns / lifestyle concerns attached to it. It's not just about physical appearance.

I was simply making the point that men have physical preferences for women too. The preferences aren't just weight standards. If we are honest, most men like a pretty face haha. I haven't heard a man ever say otherwise. There's nothing wrong with that either. You can't really blame someone for being more attracted to a beautiful person.

It's never going to be nice for the person who is being rejected/ passed over by the opposite gender for some aspect of their appearance (whether they can improve that part of their appearance or not ). It would be nice if none of us cared about appearance when considering the opposite gender for relationships, but that's just not reality. It's impossible to not have preferences. We all instinctively have them. It's only wrong if we focus solely on the physical attraction or prioritize that over a spiritual connection. That's the mistake. That is when the preferences can be considered shallow.

I think the important thing for single Christians to focus on is the heart of the person first. Getting to know someone on a fellowship level in church can actually help establish physical attraction later on. Sometimes a person can really become more attractive to another person the more they get to know them. Someone who was initially not attracted to you might find themselves rethinking that after getting to know you on a deeper level. You can only make that happen though if you are genuinely engaging with others at church for the purpose of friendship/ fellowship. One thing being overlooked in this discussion about women in church is that women can tell if a man is hitting on them or just making conversation to lead up to asking them out. That is quite different from making conversation for fellowship. It's really fellowship that should be happening in church. Many guys who complain about women being unfriendly in church or stuck up aren't being fair. They weren't trying to fellowship; they were seeking a date. It's okay to date someone from church and to ask out members, but that's not the purpose of church. So, it's also okay for someone who isn't interested in dating and wants to focus on the spiritual aspects of the meeting to shut down or avoid those types of interactions. That's not being unfriendly or shallow.

Do you think that it's entirely accurate that the men that complain about trying to approach women in church, that their interest in getting to know them is disingenuous? I mean, they can ask them to lunch after the services, and get to know them outside of church, but for whatever reason that's crossing a boundary for them.

My parents met on the beach, my dad made basically a cold turkey approach to chat with her...it wasn't at church, but they are both Christians. They got married in church. Different venue, not at church. Was easier that way....only because it wasn't in church...well, at least today's modern church were people are squirrelish about that.

I know a co-worker that asked out another Christian co-worker, boom, hit it off. She is a very devout Christian (southern Baptist, with geographically close family that are also deeply devout). He wasn't as devout, so he had to get dunked in a tank and be "born again" to marry her. (Saw the social media posts on his page).
She dated guys in church, but she took a shine to him, and married him. I remember him telling me he asked her out, and "I have date with her this Friday!" Easy peazy!

When he was a new hire, he was talking about what women co-workers were available, and hoping they were 18 or older. (Hard to tell these days as he said). I was like "Dude, don't eat where you poop!" He ignored my advice...and boom they're married. There was just something creepy about him eye-balling dating prospects within weeks of being hired.

Within 2 years, they were married.

Now this was at the work place, where you're taking considerable risk, as opposed to church, where it's no big deal (but some do make a big deal out of it regardless).

There was no time


Not sure how he pulel

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Something which I seem to be coming across more and more lately (and it's probably been around for a while but it just didn't seem as prevalent to me for whatever reason) is the notion that people should be dating within the church they attend. It's often accompanied by the complainant thinking there's something wrong with someone who doesn't do that, sometimes even to the extent of being offended by that decision.

Obviously, church is a very good place to meet people who share your values, so there's nothing wrong with thinking of a fellow attendee as a potential partner, but you can't expect someone to be interested in dating you just because the two of you happen to attend the same church. It reeks of entitlement to think that someone's making a mistake by not dating within their church's congregation.

I agree with this as I've seen men get irritated with women that bring a new guy to church, and they all are just doing the ol' dagger eyes at them. lol.

 

[angelsaroundme]

I honestly think the singles forum may do more harm than good. It invites these kinds of discussions and makes some unhappy singles fixate on their singleness. The purpose of the singles forum may have been valid in the past, but it seems to have veered off course, and I don't think it can be fixed with the state of the world. A general forum for Christians or maybe Christian off topic would be better. Then I would make a rule against gender based threads. Just my two cents.

 

[TheLastGeek]

I honestly think the singles forum may do more harm than good. It invites these kinds of discussions and makes some unhappy singles fixate on their singleness. The purpose of the singles forum may have been valid in the past, but it seems to have veered off course, and I don't think it can be fixed with the state of the world. A general forum for Christians or maybe Christian off topic would be better. Then I would make a rule against gender based threads. Just my two cents.

If we could get some moderation for "the opposite sex is awful because..." threads, it might help. It definitely was not like this many years ago. I honestly can't think of seeing any threads posted by women about how all men are horrible, either. It's completely one-sided.