No such thing as " believing " for salvation .

[Shawn Stuart]

The English language has no word to translate pisteuo correctly , no corresponding verb form of the noun Faith . It's not a matter of choice on this one .

Then why do all the translators agree?

 

[he-man]

Myself and others have concluded that to RECONCILE the eternal security NT verses with those verses that are opposed to them ... we need to understand what is really meant by that one word "believe"! To reconcile all of the verses, we see this in the NT:
True saving FAITH = deep heart-felt belief + enduring faith + strong trust + obedience or ... True saving BELIEF = deep heart-felt and enduring faith + strong trust + obedience
There is NO one word in any language which encompasses all of these concepts,
so translators just use the word "believe". But, we know that far more than intellectual belief is required to be saved.

Not all translators the content must follow the thoughts and the structure of the sentence since the word is archaic think or believe;

2 Thessalonians 2:13 At all times we are obligated to thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God chose you to be the first fruits for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through faith in the truth.

G4100 πιστεύω pisteuō πιστευει believe, trow, OE truuwian, trēowian 'to trust'; archaic think or believe; credit; (v. t.) To confide in the truth of; to give credence to; to put trust in; to believe.

From G4102 πιστιν, πιστεως πίστη faith, belief, trust, conviction
G 4103 πιστος faithful, trusty, credible, pledge, security, warrant
G3982 πεισαν πείθω persuaded, convince, determine, obey, prevail on, talk over, mislead, tempt, trust, rely on, believe of, confidence

 

[1stcenturylady]

Consider the KJV's "before" in Matthew 24:25.
People have thought it means "previously".

Consider the NKJV's "beforehand" in Matthew 24:25.
It's obvious that it means "before it happens".

Only opposite meanings, that's all.

Yes, the KJV and NKJV don't even agree all the time. I like to use Biblegateway when looking up a single verse because I can get how the verse reads in all the translations they've got stored in a list.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Will do Vicomte , I'll leave that question on what our first step of pisteuo or faithing is at the beginning of the Salvation process . No answers yet , you want to give your understanding on that part , go ahead , or just sit back , I'll keep going .

Be back in the AM . I'm retired , it won't be early .

The unholy rudeness of a couple of immature posters was so distracting I had to finally wipe all their scorn off the thread. Now that I've got Stuart Little and Ragamuffin on ignore, it is much better, and your posts are condensed. You might do the same so you are not having to answer their disreputable guile.

I would really like to see all your findings in one place, and not disjointed. I too find the word "believe" to have lead to some very liberal and false doctrine. But they even had that problem in the 1st century, turning the grace of God into lasciviousness. Jude 1:4. We see also in 1 Peter 2:7 that the opposite of believe is disobedient. So there is action involved. Even in the Reformation we have this disquieting quote:

Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.

Unbelievable!!! At least we know where our modern false doctrines come from. And it stems from the worst possible interpretations of believe and faith, i.e., "justification by faith alone." No action, just mind. They must not have read Paul when he asked, "shall we sin so grace may abound? God FORBID! How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Or John who said:

5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3.

They certainly are not murdering and committing adultery a thousand times a day! There are no children of the devil who are saved, 1 John 3:8. Even the demons "believe" and tremble.

 

[Shawn Stuart]

Funny you should say this.

"I believe" is EXACTLY what the Greek Orthodox Church says "pisteuo" (pronounced pisTEVo) means.

Do you know more than Greek speakers do?

This!

 

[RaymondG]

This!

Why would you spend so much time and energy into that which you believe to be false? Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore the thread and move on?

I, myself, have nothing to add until hearing the conclusion of the whole matter.... As, according to proverbs, it brings shame and folly to those who answer before then.

But I am willing and able to hear it.

 

[Shawn Stuart]

Why would you spend so much time and energy into that which you believe to be false? Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore the thread and move on?

Did the writers of the Apostles Creed ignore the heretics?

 

[harko]

Here's me thinking we were talking about pistachio nuts!!

 

[Shawn Stuart]

Here's me thinking we were talking about pistachio nuts!!

We’re talking about nuts alright.....

 

[Pneuma3]

Pisteuo being a verb is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence .

I have read through the thread and so far this is the best answer you have given, but then I am in agreement with it so that helps

any way what I would like to see you do is put all the info in one post (if it will fit) so I/we can have a better understanding of what it is you are trying to present as I don't believe what you have been presenting so far is enough to give a fair judgment on.

Although I do see some have already done this, but it is never good to give a verdict until all the evidence has been presented.

 

[watchman 2]

I have read through the thread and so far this is the best answer you have given, but then I am in agreement with it so that helps

any way what I would like to see you do is put all the info in one post (if it will fit) so I/we can have a better understanding of what it is you are trying to present as I don't believe what you have been presenting so far is enough to give a fair judgment on.

Although I do see some have already done this, but it is never good to give a verdict until all the evidence has been presented.

Ok P3 , I'll give that a try . I try to explain it as if we are on a journey together in order to highlight each important state of being . But it becomes much more difficult as more people reply . So I'll try to post a new thread with the entire understanding today or tomorrow . That is if anyone is interested ?

 

[Vicomte13]

Did the writers of the Apostles Creed ignore the heretics?

No. In fact, in that same century the Church and Roman state cooperated to start the first executions of heretics, to our everlasting shame.

 

[Vicomte13]

Ok P3 , I'll give that a try . I try to explain it as if we are on a journey together in order to highlight each important state of being . But it becomes much more difficult as more people reply . So I'll try to post a new thread with the entire understanding today or tomorrow . That is if anyone is interested ?

I’d prefer you just continued here.

 

[Pneuma3]

Ok P3 , I'll give that a try . I try to explain it as if we are on a journey together in order to highlight each important state of being . But it becomes much more difficult as more people reply . So I'll try to post a new thread with the entire understanding today or tomorrow . That is if anyone is interested ?

I appreciate that, but no need to start a new thread just put it here in your next post.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Welll first Lady , I'll present one fact at a time . I have many to support my claim , but rarely get passed 3 or 4 .

Fact no. 1) Pistis is the Greek word , the noun where we get our English word , the noun Faith . Used 245 times in the NT .

Fact no. 2 ) pisteuo is the corresponding verb to the noun Pistis . The English language has no corespocorres verb to the noun Faith , like the Greek does . Used 248 times in the NT .

Any major disagreements so far ?

Yes.

The English word "faith" comes from the Latin word "fides", not the Greek word "pistis".

So you're wrong right out of the starting block.

 

[Radagast]

The English word "faith" comes from the Latin word "fides", not the Greek word "pistis".

I believe that both words are distant relatives, having the same proto-Indo-European origin.

 

[Saint Steven]

Fact no. 5 ) The translators were put in a position , where they didn't have the word they needed to correctly communicate pisteuo , so they had to chose a word that would come the closest .

Pisteuo being a verb is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence .

So when the translators chose the words believe , believer , and believing , the captured about one third of what true NT Faith and faithing are .

Just as I expected. This is about works. Because...
"... believing just is not enough, you know. If you want to saved, you better earn it."

 

[Saint Steven]

Instead of taking my word for it let's go to Strongs and Vines Greek dictionarys .

Fact no. 6 )

Strongs 4100 defines pisteuo as follows .
" Pisteuo means NOT just to believe , but reliance upon . Committed to , committed unto .

Vines , " pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender . Producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation of truth ."
" All this stands in contrast to belief in its purely natural excerise, which is an opinion held in good faith without necessary reference to it's proof ."

Nothing about" believing " in the Greek dictionarys concerning pisteuo, except that pisteuo means NOT just to believe .

Any questions so far ?

I'm not sure who, or what, you are correcting?

Who is claiming that belief stops at simple agreement with a fact?
Like someone saying, "I believe in God."

 

[Saint Steven]

Unless you had a teacher for 33 years who knows more than the translators . Education and accessibility to all the ancient manuscripts . Many of were not available in the 1500's .

As if Bible translation ended with the KJV.

 

[Saint Steven]

Unbelievable!!! At least we know where our modern false doctrines come from. And it stems from the worst possible interpretations of believe and faith, i.e., "justification by faith alone." No action, just mind.

We can never be justified by our own doing. We are believing what has been done for us. That which we could NEVER do for ourselves. So yes, justification is received by faith alone. It's a gift, we can't buy it, or earn it.